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ConanMan wrote:

partninja wrote:
D cannons are a little too short ranged. A lot of lists could just out range your Cannons or ignore them completely depending on terrain setup and objective placement.

That's not actually true, the optimum placement is as far forward as possible in set up then move the a full movement plus a run (they get 6" run if he is windrider host) and forgo shooting on turn one you are now all but mid board. You will take casualties and create huge attention but they are a huge wound pool.

That is only if you don't have Eldrad for guaranteed Scout, do D3 units move to center board and threaten the whole thing.

Or you shoot for the Infiltrate Warlord Trait and Infiltrate a D3 units for the same effect. If you go first your oponent has a chance to be taking 9 D Barrage Blasts they can do nothing to avoid short of being in reserve and hoping that they don't get tabled and lose by sudden death for being tabled at the end of a game turn.

 Galef wrote:
I can only speak from experience. That many Fire Warriors and Riptides should have killed the Hounds as well, but I consistently massacred that list. There is a lot that can happen with dice, especially when its Night Fight and Mathhammer only goes so far.

There are also other things in the list like SoulGrinders (which will admittedly die to this Eldar list), plenty of Horrors & Daemonettes.

Come to think of it, Plague Drones would do a number on against this list too. None of your stuff ignore cover (except the '6' on the D table). I have a friend who plays nothing but Nurgle stuff, and lots of Drones. They are fast and always have a 3+ or 2+ cover save.

My point is to be aware of the counter to this list. You may never see it played, but if you know it exist, you will be better prepared. Many of my victories with my Daemons should not have happened, but did because the opponent wasn't expecting it

All 3 units of cannons have a warlock. Each warlock has the Primaris Power that removes stealth and shrouded special rules from the target.

It sucks coupled with scatter bikes and D cannons.

Fleshhound Deny the witch on a 4+. Collar-o-Khorne FTW. Also, Heldrakes exist. I can do this all day.

But seriously, I understand that this list is an instant-win button against 95% of the armies it will play. I am just pointing out any chinks in its armour so that the OP is aware of them.

If you know the potential threats to the list, you can beat that 5%.

I think this would give you mod=re game TBH:

PRIMARY CAD: 1409
Autarch: skyrunner, fusion, lance 100
Eldrad 195

4x 3 Jet bikes: 204

3x Vaul’s support battery: 3 d cannons, warlock 600

Wraithknight: cannons, scatterlaser 310

CRIMSON DEATH: 440
Crimson Hunter Exarch: starcannons
2 Crimson Hunter: bright lances

You lose very little from your list and gain a great formation and an autarch to bring them in and some of your bikes. Eldard will guarantee you scout and adds an extra warp charge. Cast fortune/invisibility/eldritch storm all day.

I'm going to run those 9 D-cannons with warlocks.
I'm also going to wear a T-shirt that has the Destroyer weapon chart printed on a giant penis.

I feel that with a list like that, you need to advertise from a distance who you are.

Be aware that Nova nad ITC are changing rules again. Ranged D weapons (over 12") will be -1. LoWs will be limited to one. Max two detachments. This is indicative of changes to come at tournaments.

So that is a major nerf to d weapons not a small one. No 6 + D6 anymore which really could hurt your opponents MCs and vehicles. Now D3 wounds pretty much pales in comparison although AOE weapons are nice. You will get a pen and D3 hull points but saves are allowed.

A destroyer cannon is will be better than a ranged d weapon, btw. That said they may not implement these changes in your meta. If they do (and I feel it likely) d weapons will be good but not that nasty.

 felixcat wrote:

Be aware that Nova nad ITC are changing rules again. Ranged D weapons (over 12") will be -1. LoWs will be limited to one. Max two detachments. This is indicative of changes to come at tournaments.

So that is a major nerf to d weapons not a small one. No 6 + D6 anymore which really could hurt your opponents MCs and vehicles. Now D3 wounds pretty much pales in comparison although AOE weapons are nice. You will get a pen and D3 hull points but saves are allowed.

A destroyer cannon is will be better than a ranged d weapon, btw. That said they may not implement these changes in your meta. If they do (and I feel it likely) d weapons will be good but not that nasty.

Your information is incorrect in reference to both ITC and NOVA.

@Zagman - currently and for the next tournament there are only restrictions on the number of FW units you may bring and LoWs. This was set already. So yes that is correct. As well decurion with multiple formations and daemonkin with multiple formations will be allowed.

The changes are currently under discussion.

HawaiiMatt wrote:I'm going to run those 9 D-cannons with warlocks.
I'm also going to wear a T-shirt that has the Destroyer weapon chart printed on a giant penis.

I feel that with a list like that, you need to advertise from a distance who you are.

I have already clarified that I will be playing the bad guy in this movie. I am running a similar list at the next GT that I am attending. If I win the tournament I will not be accepting the prize support. I dont think its a level playing field. Might give it to best opponent or DFL.

felixcat wrote:@Zagman - currently and for the next tournament there are only restrictions on the number of FW units you may bring and LoWs. This was set already. So yes that is correct. As well decurion with multiple formations and daemonkin with multiple formations will be allowed.

The changes are currently under discussion.

This is an interesting discussion. I am curious how they are going to rule it. As barrage weapons working different at 24" is a little mute as wounds are allocated from the center of the first blast. The 12" rule would do nothing to stop wraithguard from tabling someone.

felixcat wrote:
I think this would give you mod=re game TBH:

PRIMARY CAD: 1409
Autarch: skyrunner, fusion, lance 100
Eldrad 195

4x 3 Jet bikes: 204

3x Vaul’s support battery: 3 d cannons, warlock 600

Wraithknight: cannons, scatterlaser 310

CRIMSON DEATH: 440
Crimson Hunter Exarch: starcannons
2 Crimson Hunter: bright lances

You lose very little from your list and gain a great formation and an autarch to bring them in and some of your bikes. Eldard will guarantee you scout and adds an extra warp charge. Cast fortune/invisibility/eldritch storm all day.

The crimson death formation is decent but they cannot score objectives. The bikes need to be my mobile objective secure units. I am running the vauls with the wraithknight with allied harlequins at my next GT. Will post the list when i finally decide what harlequins I want to run.

Is it cheesy? Sure... Is it breaking the game? I think not.. not even close.

Have you played the army? Test games? Quality of opponents? Or is this just a list in thought currently?

Id be interested to see how it has been played and against what.

Tsilber wrote:
Is it cheesy? Sure... Is it breaking the game? I think not.. not even close.

Have you played the army? Test games? Quality of opponents? Or is this just a list in thought currently?

Id be interested to see how it has been played and against what.

I am currently having the army painted by a buddy in California near the frontline gaming crew. I am seeing if Reece and his crew want to run the army live for a podcast. You will be able to watch the game if they agree.

did you even play test it?

I honestly dont think id have any trouble with your list.

chadbrochill17 wrote:
did you even play test it?

I honestly dont think id have any trouble with your list.

That is incredibly easy to say. Could you elaborate as to what list would handle the above list easily? As for play testing i have not played with them yet as they are being painted up for a GT in early june.

 Tomb King wrote:

chadbrochill17 wrote:
did you even play test it?

I honestly dont think id have any trouble with your list.

That is incredibly easy to say. Could you elaborate as to what list would handle the above list easily? As for play testing i have not played with them yet as they are being painted up for a GT in early june.

Granted I play eldar too, so its likely going to be really good against non new codexes.

I have a few less units of bikes, however mine have scatters and would easily outrange and destroy yours, my whole army is more mobile than yours, spiders will wreck your d cannons and then run away when you try and shoot them and seer council will soak your pain and tie up anything that needs it and make other units run away. wraith knights fight eachother or do similar things as eachother.. Flyers rain down D templates that you cant even strike back at effectively...

I just really think that all the mobile pieces of eldar will destroy your fairly immobile army of vauls wrath 24" guns, if you go first and get into the middle of the table you may have more of a chance but i still think that spiders, hawks, scatter bikes, and psykers will wreck you. And yes, I saw the assassin, he is useless, he will never make it to within a mile of any unit he can hurt or cause damage to against an opponent that actually knows what their doing.

My army list is posted in here somewhere if you want to compare, it is easy to say so and so will beat so and so, but I really think you are over valuing this army based on D weapons which is a typical over reaction by the average player.

Unless you're rich ( more power to you) you are stupid for not play testing the list, even with proxies, at least a few times..

Guess youll find out at the GT..

chadbrochill17 wrote:

 Tomb King wrote:

chadbrochill17 wrote:
did you even play test it?

I honestly dont think id have any trouble with your list.

That is incredibly easy to say. Could you elaborate as to what list would handle the above list easily? As for play testing i have not played with them yet as they are being painted up for a GT in early june.

Granted I play eldar too, so its likely going to be really good against non new codexes.

I have a few less units of bikes, however mine have scatters and would easily outrange and destroy yours, my whole army is more mobile than yours, spiders will wreck your d cannons and then run away when you try and shoot them and seer council will soak your pain and tie up anything that needs it and make other units run away. wraith knights fight eachother or do similar things as eachother.. Flyers rain down D templates that you cant even strike back at effectively...

I just really think that all the mobile pieces of eldar will destroy your fairly immobile army of vauls wrath 24" guns, if you go first and get into the middle of the table you may have more of a chance but i still think that spiders, hawks, scatter bikes, and psykers will wreck you. And yes, I saw the assassin, he is useless, he will never make it to within a mile of any unit he can hurt or cause damage to against an opponent that actually knows what their doing.

My army list is posted in here somewhere if you want to compare, it is easy to say so and so will beat so and so, but I really think you are over valuing this army based on D weapons which is a typical over reaction by the average player.

Unless you're rich ( more power to you) you are stupid for not play testing the list, even with proxies, at least a few times..

Guess youll find out at the GT..

Well... you have it all figured out then. I did mention that eldar would be the best army against this list. The most important thing you said. I will find out at the GT. That is a certainty. I would like to state that I am definately not rich... as for stupid... that can probably be agreed upon that it differs from person to person. I dont have as much time as most to get in practice games. I went to this years Adepticon with me playing only 5 games total in 7th edition. I was using the new necrons that I awesome bought and put together without the practice games. I only manage to finish 10th but I was in 3rd place going into round 7. Ide say I probably at least a little bit of a step up from an average player. I think who will go first may decide the game in that match-up. My army does not fear warp spiders as they roll against initiative 5. In addition, they are 12" range shooting at my 24" range artillery. Not sure but the math doesnt get you out of range as much as you would like. The bike on bike action. I wont need to jink for your shots... would you be jinking for mine? That superior range will only matter on the first turn. After that it will be hard to avoid a 36" threat range.

OK. I've been keeping an eye on this thread and have thus far managed to avoid commenting.

The thing I don't understand is, what are you here for? I'm struggling to work out why you posted the list up? I've wanted to reply, but I don't know what you're after, and it seems any suggestion, or counter you shut down immediately. I'm not saying it isn't a strong list. Although not something I would play, I quite like the concept. Having said that, I do think you're putting far too much onus on the D cannons to win you the game. And, personally, I think the assassin is a terrible choice when you can have a second Jetseer.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
OK. I've been keeping an eye on this thread and have thus far managed to avoid commenting.

The thing I don't understand is, what are you here for? I'm struggling to work out why you posted the list up? I've wanted to reply, but I don't know what you're after, and it seems any suggestion, or counter you shut down immediately. I'm not saying it isn't a strong list. Although not something I would play, I quite like the concept. Having said that, I do think you're putting far too much onus on the D cannons to win you the game. And, personally, I think the assassin is a terrible choice when you can have a second Jetseer.

Feel free to comment it is an open forum. I may come off as defensive but the intent is I posted X list... find the holes in it. I see the list I posted as possibly tabling opponents akin to the way the old IG leafblower list worked. The assassin is mainly there as a denial unit.. he is also surprisingly good at tarpiting some units as he gets free invisibility. I might still replace him with a jetseer or even eldrad to guarantee scout in some of my games. The main purpose of the assassin is he gives me the ability to hide and nullify invisibility.

I just posted what I see as the meanest possible build that I could thing up at the time. My actual list is less optimized then the OP list. I am running harlequins allied in with eldar. I will have more assaulty units but less firepower. The list was originally going to have summoning elements but the new book put a stopped to summoning eldar.

In conclusion, you are correct the list is not perfect. If I go second against a flying circus then I am in for a bit of a fight as I try to ground his units. If I get first turn against most armies then I am looking to possibly table some opponents before their reserves arrive. Its rock paper hatchet!


Pending any changes or setback an army of a similar variant will be played Thursday the 21st on frontline gamings podcast. I have my army in California getting painted up for the event and contacted them to see if they were interested in showing the community the deadly firepower of the new vaul's batterys. Should be a good show!

OK. It's certainly an interesting list. I'd take a jetseer over the assassin every single day of the week. I think he gives you so much more. And I think considering the assassins threat range for shutting powers down makes him fairly useless.

My only issue otherwise is the cannons range. They're not great. Having said that I feel people under estimate 24" range. I'll be very interested in seeing how they do. It'd be interesting against something like a triple blood angels stormraven list or similar.