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The problems with Land Raiders are simalar to Flyers.
If you are dead for them, there are no issues.
If you are not ready for them there are a lot of issues.

There is never an issue with a LR unless you are trying to throw the game.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
I wouldn't call the Phobos raider a schizo. It can move 6" and still fire both lascannons at full bs. Tl-Hb is obv worse than tl-ac, but the las are so much better than the hurricanes

It's schizofrenic because its lascannons have completely different targets than its heavy bolters do. Whereas everything but the multimelta on the redeemer and crusader is all about killing infantry.

You do understand that there is POTMS right? This solves the problem you are talking about and typically you aren't firing more than 2 weapons at full BS anyways and 1 is going to be using POTMS - 2 weapons - 2 targets - no problem at all.

If you want the weapons on a land raider, a Predator Annihilator gets you more lascannons for your buck; or you could use a Spartan Assault Tank or a Terminus Ultra if you really want that lascannon spam.

At 250 points you need to do some damage. 2 TL LC and a MM is better firepower than a 1 TL LC 2 LC tank too but it is comparable. It's a good base for what you are paying for with the other 110 points that go into a LR.
Is it worth it? No. The tri laz pred already isn't worth it. If a LR was a superheavy though - then it would be worth it.

For the price of the classic pattern, you can get a Tri-Las Predator and the Dakka Predator. That's more ground covered, less points wasted by alpha strikes, and they don't need to be close to deliver cargo because they don't pretend to do anything else. Why would you ever WANT Godhammer outside nostalgia purposes?

I agree with you but you are also leaving out crucial details. The firepower provided by the other LR's is even worse for the price and all you get in return is 1-3 more terms loaded inside. The question is what is the best, maybe which is the best value - I'll stand by the god hammer - it actually has the chance of getting it's points back - where the other have close to 0 chance because they require another turn to do it. Again, I'll state it again - THEY ARE ALL BAD UNIT lol. Nostalgia is about the only reason to take them.

Except in 1850 mono build GK lists I have with an IK - I like to take a scoring LR in that list to give me some anti flyer and also something that can score in your face.

 Kain wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
I wouldn't call the Phobos raider a schizo. It can move 6" and still fire both lascannons at full bs. Tl-Hb is obv worse than tl-ac, but the las are so much better than the hurricanes

It's schizofrenic because its lascannons have completely different targets than its heavy bolters do. Whereas everything but the multimelta on the redeemer and crusader is all about killing infantry.

Just about every military vehicle used in the world today on ground, in the air or in the sea has a longer range main attack weapon(s) along with shorter range close in defensive weapon(s). This is not schizophrenic, it is smart design. The land raider can pick off threats to itself and its cargo from a far with its lascannon and when it gets closer in to its target deployment zone it can clear out the bugs with the heavy bolters to clear some space for the troops assaulting out of it. It can also still fire its lascannon in close if it wants to with out fear of a blast affecting the land raider as well. A vehicle that has all of its weapons limited to a single range finds itself in difficulties when removed from that single range. The redeemer needs to always be in really close to be effective. A vehicle with only a longer ranged weapon becomes vulnerable to infantry assaults and close in threats. Balance is a smart, not schizophrenic.

Skriker

But these aren't real military vehicles. And a single heavy bolter amounts to jack and squat in 40K now.

Yep. In real life, flexibility is a virtue- in 40K game design, it isn't. Units with a strong focus in one or two areas are better than units thare just "okay" or meh at everything.

Like tactical marines.

 Skriker wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
I wouldn't call the Phobos raider a schizo. It can move 6" and still fire both lascannons at full bs. Tl-Hb is obv worse than tl-ac, but the las are so much better than the hurricanes

It's schizofrenic because its lascannons have completely different targets than its heavy bolters do. Whereas everything but the multimelta on the redeemer and crusader is all about killing infantry.

Just about every military vehicle used in the world today on ground, in the air or in the sea has a longer range main attack weapon(s) along with shorter range close in defensive weapon(s). This is not schizophrenic, it is smart design. The land raider can pick off threats to itself and its cargo from a far with its lascannon and when it gets closer in to its target deployment zone it can clear out the bugs with the heavy bolters to clear some space for the troops assaulting out of it. It can also still fire its lascannon in close if it wants to with out fear of a blast affecting the land raider as well. A vehicle that has all of its weapons limited to a single range finds itself in difficulties when removed from that single range. The redeemer needs to always be in really close to be effective. A vehicle with only a longer ranged weapon becomes vulnerable to infantry assaults and close in threats. Balance is a smart, not schizophrenic.

Skriker

The heavy bolter can't do enough damage to infantry units to be worth caring about and unless you're firing against very thin skinned open topped vehicles you'll probably want to use both lascannons against one target to ensure its demise.

Balance is okay if you're a baneblade and are literally made out of so many guns that you are dead killy at every range, but the land raider's firepower is so mediocre for the base version that its lack of focus is damaging to its potential as a gunboat, and because its main damage dealing weapons want to be used from a long distance; it's contradictory to its primary goal as a delivery system for melee units. If I want to kill something close up I'll use an Ares, if I want vehicles dead I'll get a Terminus ultra, if I want to transport things I'm going to use an LRC or Spartan.

Actually, the spartan can kill vehicles pretty decently too with its four lascannon shots.

The crusader/redeamer is just a pure assault transport to deliver its cargo protected by its thick av14 hull and frontal assault ramp for delivery

Expensive but if you lack anti tank its basicly not going to stop till it does its job.