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As the title says, I'd like to know which is better.

Ember

I vote Godhammer (normal)

Most of the time I prefer the normal variant but the redeemer has more damage potential and I've had a lot of fun with it too.

Really the main factor in choosing between them is what it is transporting. Redeemer and crusader have larger capacity. Some squads REQUIRE the land raider crusader - not that anyone would actually chose 3 twinlink bolters over an AP3 flamer or TL LC willingly.

5 man terminator is a standard land raider is my favorite use. Deadly from range - deadly up close - lets you play how you want to play. You can sit back and wait to counter charge and still put out decent firepower or plow in head first.

If you're delivering an assault unit then LRC. If you play Black Templars then Objective Secured LRC. If you want fire support counter assault then LR.

The Phobos pattern (with Lascannons) is mediocre but not terrible. It just suffers from schizophrenia - "Do I get close to assault or stay away to utilize lascannons?"

The Crusader pattern is great, but lacks antitank firepower. It compensates by having very high rate of fire weapons that will blow holes in infantry formations.

The Redeemer is mediocre but suffers from excessively short range (you don't even need to get that close to assault!) and has trouble hitting the same unit with both flamestorm cannons.

The Crusader is the best pattern.
1. More cargo space in case it's needed.
2. The Weapons don't suffer from being schizo.
3. The weapons are more likely to hit more targets compared to the Redeemer.

Better than that is the Spartan since Armored Ceramite, but now we got D-Guard SOOOOOOO...

I wish the Redeemer had some sort of watered down "Torrent" rule. If it had the regular Torrent rule it would be OP.

That's like asking if a Rhino, Predator or Vindicator is better. They do very different things. Figure out what you need it for and your answer will be solved right there.

The Redeemer is very strong though with a purchased Multimelta. I personally prefer the Hyperios. Anti air rockets with Interceptor and six capacity. Perfect for a Command Squad.

That Excelsior though, I'm interested in that one and might pick it up when it is no longer exclusive through one way or another.

 Xenomancers wrote:
not that anyone would actually chose 3 twinlink bolters over an AP3 flamer or TL LC willingly.

I would. Hurricane Bolters do more damage against infantry than a lascannon (even against MEQ), don't have the very stringent range or movement limitations that the flamers do, and have better synergies with the assault cannon than the other weapon configurations.

I do think the flamestorm cannon has it's uses. If nothing else, it exerts a bubble of "don't come close or I'm going to roast you", which is useful for camping objectives.

Is the terminus ultra still a thing? That would be my first choice

I say Crusader, but that's just me.

I suspect my decision may be out of date. Although I still prefer it out of favoritism, it's been two editions since I picked mine up, and the rules have changed significantly.

Crusader all the way. But then I tended to need the 16 body capasity. The main problem with the redeemer is that I've never seen one live long enough to fire those cannons more than once. They tend to be a huge fire magnet because people do fear them so. The worse part about them is that an immobilized result is just as good as anything that might happen. Those cannons just can't reach anything.

At the end, the purpose of a land raider is to bring a squad to close combat. For this reason I always take the redeem. I know that the flamer rang suck but until you get there you can still shoot the Assault canon and the additional MM.

I played again a Drop Pod Spam Space wolf last week and the redeem make them cry like hell. All his newly arrive squad got flame as soon as they arrived.

I would go with the helios
Its basically a whirlwind taped onto a standard land raider and can still hold a character plus a command squad

Crusader all the way. It's good at pretty much every range and has the biggest transport capacity of the stock LR's.

I want to like the Redeemer, but it truly has done nothing for me everytime I've fielded it.

Crusader or Redeemer. The Schizo Raider (Godhammer/Normal) suffers from not quite knowing what range it wants to be at and from having a lower capacity. Crusader is the overall winner due to capacity (it can take 8 Terminators) and the fact that its weapons all have the same range, but I am partial to the Redeemer. Honestly, you could always get the regular Godhammer kit and the Crusader/Redeemer upgrade sprue and magnetize its sponsons.

I wouldn't call the Phobos raider a schizo. It can move 6" and still fire both lascannons at full bs. Tl-Hb is obv worse than tl-ac, but the las are so much better than the hurricanes

 Sir Arun wrote:
I wouldn't call the Phobos raider a schizo. It can move 6" and still fire both lascannons at full bs. Tl-Hb is obv worse than tl-ac, but the las are so much better than the hurricanes

It's schizofrenic because its lascannons have completely different targets than its heavy bolters do. Whereas everything but the multimelta on the redeemer and crusader is all about killing infantry.

The Phobos prefers the term “Tactically Flexible” over “Schizo”. It’s the only one (of the basic codex) that can act as a MBT. The LRR/LRC are pure battle taxies. The LRR needs to be in assault range to do anything, and the LRC, while not needing to be quite that close, just adds bolter fire to the battle. Which I generally don’t lack.

But the Phobos can project coherent light from the Godhammers across the table. And generally, something, somewhere, could use a little TLLC loving. The 10 man cargo hurts, as you can’t fit a 5 man terminator squad with a HQ (grumble) but they can usually hold their own without help.

I’ll admit to bias here. I run a classic LR, and it’s the only one I own. It’s got history and nostalgia on its side, unlike those new-fangled LRR/LRCs. But I find it fits my playstyle well. Or my playstyle has evolved to fit it, one of the two.

10 bucks says the Terminus Ultra wont be in the new space marine codex.

After all, GW doesnt want to sell their kits.

 Nevelon wrote:
The Phobos prefers the term “Tactically Flexible” over “Schizo”. It’s the only one (of the basic codex) that can act as a MBT. The LRR/LRC are pure battle taxies. The LRR needs to be in assault range to do anything, and the LRC, while not needing to be quite that close, just adds bolter fire to the battle. Which I generally don’t lack.

But the Phobos can project coherent light from the Godhammers across the table. And generally, something, somewhere, could use a little TLLC loving. The 10 man cargo hurts, as you can’t fit a 5 man terminator squad with a HQ (grumble) but they can usually hold their own without help.

I’ll admit to bias here. I run a classic LR, and it’s the only one I own. It’s got history and nostalgia on its side, unlike those new-fangled LRR/LRCs. But I find it fits my playstyle well. Or my playstyle has evolved to fit it, one of the two.

I have no bias - I have 1 of each and I agree that the Godhammer is the best LR but it lacks capacity. That's why I said choosing should really come from your transported units capacity requirements. 5 Man terms do not need an IC to do work usually - ESP if we are talking about hammernators - they should eat anything. If you gotta have more capacity you gotta downgrade land raiders the way I see it. To be honest they are all pretty bad - I wouldn't take ether of them to a competitive arena.

Yes, indeed. The "most mighty" ground vehicle of the Space Marines turns out to be "pretty bad" in practice. True story, that.

 Kain wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
I wouldn't call the Phobos raider a schizo. It can move 6" and still fire both lascannons at full bs. Tl-Hb is obv worse than tl-ac, but the las are so much better than the hurricanes

It's schizofrenic because its lascannons have completely different targets than its heavy bolters do. Whereas everything but the multimelta on the redeemer and crusader is all about killing infantry.

You do understand that there is POTMS right? This solves the problem you are talking about and typically you aren't firing more than 2 weapons at full BS anyways and 1 is going to be using POTMS - 2 weapons - 2 targets - no problem at all.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
I wouldn't call the Phobos raider a schizo. It can move 6" and still fire both lascannons at full bs. Tl-Hb is obv worse than tl-ac, but the las are so much better than the hurricanes

It's schizofrenic because its lascannons have completely different targets than its heavy bolters do. Whereas everything but the multimelta on the redeemer and crusader is all about killing infantry.

You do understand that there is POTMS right? This solves the problem you are talking about and typically you aren't firing more than 2 weapons at full BS anyways and 1 is going to be using POTMS - 2 weapons - 2 targets - no problem at all.

2 weapons for 250+ pts is pathetic, though. And you have to move 6" to even get that. Fail.

Martel732 wrote:
Yes, indeed. The "most mighty" ground vehicle of the Space Marines turns out to be "pretty bad" in practice. True story, that.

Not sure if serious or troll. 4 HP and AV14 is pretty hard to crack for anything other than melta range, railguns, d-weapons or haywires. A tank that sits back and snipes other tanks with 2 Tl-lascannons will win 4 out of 5 tank battles.

Though why anyone would want to transport terminators in a land raider - just to get the assault out of the tank capability - is beyond me. That's 500 points sitting in one corner. I'd rather DS the terminators in and use the carrying capacity of the LR to transport a unit of crusader initiaties into cc. Then again, I play bT

 Sir Arun wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Yes, indeed. The "most mighty" ground vehicle of the Space Marines turns out to be "pretty bad" in practice. True story, that.

Not sure if serious or troll. 4 HP and AV14 is pretty hard to crack for anything other than melta range, railguns, d-weapons or haywires. A tank that sits back and snipes other tanks with 2 Tl-lascannons will win 4 out of 5 tank battles.

Though why anyone would want to transport terminators in a land raider - just to get the assault out of the tank capability - is beyond me. That's 500 points sitting in one corner. I'd rather DS the terminators in and use the carrying capacity of the LR to transport a unit of crusader initiaties into cc. Then again, I play bT

No, I'm really serious. And I see more LRs die to gravstars than anything else. And gravstars are everywhere it seems. The cost efficiency of the LR just sucks out loud. It doesn't bring nearly enough to the table for its cost.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
I wouldn't call the Phobos raider a schizo. It can move 6" and still fire both lascannons at full bs. Tl-Hb is obv worse than tl-ac, but the las are so much better than the hurricanes

It's schizofrenic because its lascannons have completely different targets than its heavy bolters do. Whereas everything but the multimelta on the redeemer and crusader is all about killing infantry.

You do understand that there is POTMS right? This solves the problem you are talking about and typically you aren't firing more than 2 weapons at full BS anyways and 1 is going to be using POTMS - 2 weapons - 2 targets - no problem at all.

If you want the weapons on a land raider, a Predator Annihilator gets you more lascannons for your buck; or you could use a Spartan Assault Tank or a Terminus Ultra if you really want that lascannon spam.

 Kain wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
I wouldn't call the Phobos raider a schizo. It can move 6" and still fire both lascannons at full bs. Tl-Hb is obv worse than tl-ac, but the las are so much better than the hurricanes

It's schizofrenic because its lascannons have completely different targets than its heavy bolters do. Whereas everything but the multimelta on the redeemer and crusader is all about killing infantry.

You do understand that there is POTMS right? This solves the problem you are talking about and typically you aren't firing more than 2 weapons at full BS anyways and 1 is going to be using POTMS - 2 weapons - 2 targets - no problem at all.

If you want the weapons on a land raider, a Predator Annihilator gets you more lascannons for your buck; or you could use a Spartan Assault Tank or a Terminus Ultra if you really want that lascannon spam.

At 250 points you need to do some damage. 2 TL LC and a MM is better firepower than a 1 TL LC 2 LC tank too but it is comparable. It's a good base for what you are paying for with the other 110 points that go into a LR.
Is it worth it? No. The tri laz pred already isn't worth it. If a LR was a superheavy though - then it would be worth it.

Trying to find units "worth it" in a marine codex is actually pretty damn hard. The fall off after grav cents and Tiggy is pretty steep.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
I wouldn't call the Phobos raider a schizo. It can move 6" and still fire both lascannons at full bs. Tl-Hb is obv worse than tl-ac, but the las are so much better than the hurricanes

It's schizofrenic because its lascannons have completely different targets than its heavy bolters do. Whereas everything but the multimelta on the redeemer and crusader is all about killing infantry.

You do understand that there is POTMS right? This solves the problem you are talking about and typically you aren't firing more than 2 weapons at full BS anyways and 1 is going to be using POTMS - 2 weapons - 2 targets - no problem at all.

If you want the weapons on a land raider, a Predator Annihilator gets you more lascannons for your buck; or you could use a Spartan Assault Tank or a Terminus Ultra if you really want that lascannon spam.

At 250 points you need to do some damage. 2 TL LC and a MM is better firepower than a 1 TL LC 2 LC tank too but it is comparable. It's a good base for what you are paying for with the other 110 points that go into a LR.
Is it worth it? No. The tri laz pred already isn't worth it. If a LR was a superheavy though - then it would be worth it.

For the price of the classic pattern, you can get a Tri-Las Predator and the Dakka Predator. That's more ground covered, less points wasted by alpha strikes, and they don't need to be close to deliver cargo because they don't pretend to do anything else. Why would you ever WANT Godhammer outside nostalgia purposes?