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 Dakkamite wrote:
Any progress on daemonkin? I could just run it with khorne only elements from the two codexes here, but would rather do it properly. Main issues that daemonkin have that I am aware of are;

-Why is Axe of Khorne 30pts in Khornes own army list when its only 10pts in a vanilla Daemon army

Yup one stupidity i have a hard time swallowing, even though i understand that 10pts for an AP2, Decapitation weapon on an T4, 3+ model, would be too good.

The reason the price went up, is because Marines, while not having an invul save are slightly better then Bloodletters, better Thoughness, better armor save, more attacks.

A 15 or even 20 points for it, would have been good enough imo, 30 is just taking the piss.

-Lack of clarity for summoned bloodthirsters landing on the turn they arrive. Can lead to monsters being summoned and spending like three turns floating around being useless.

Yup , even though the rules are clear on what happens, it doesn't change the fact that having a FMC deep strike at turn 3 or 4, is anything but usefull...

-Feel No Pain seems to be the best Tithe choice even when you've got enough to summon a big fat daemon.

I just regret there is no special rule that allows for Deamons engines a bit more survivability, like an invul save reroll or a +1 to their invul save.

Also wish that one of the Bloodtithe was a run+assault kind of deal.

-Likewise the first tithe choice gives out Rage and Furious Charge - *every* model in the army has one or the other of these, making it somewhat redundant

While its true that its redundant in half the cases, it still give Rage to a large portion of models that don't have it, Deamon engines, Dreads, Deamons.

-No access to the Khornate characters - Kharn, Skarbrand etc.

Yup also find it silly, even though i can get why not Kharn, i don't get why no Skarbrand and also no Karanak...

-Cannot take Daemon Princes in the Heavy slot by fielding a Bloodthirster.

i really don't feel it like its such a big loss IMO, Khorne DPrince will always be sub par compared to others FMC.

-Possessed are terrible and use the normal terrible possessed mutation chart rather than either the good one from Crimson Slaughter or a Khorne specific one. Same deal to a lesser extent for spawn.

Then you must have read their Mutation chart wrong, their rule says that they roll on the chart in each Fight sub-phase and that the effects last untill the end of the GAME TURN( meaning your turn, AND your opponents turn), but you still roll each Fight sub-phase, so...you get 2 Mutations per turn has long that you are in CC, wich is better then regular Possessed, also their first results allows you to reroll failed to Hit rolls, while in CSM its failed to wound.

But yeah Possessed needs to have 2 CCW and Rending in addition to their mutations.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:
Any progress on daemonkin? I could just run it with khorne only elements from the two codexes here, but would rather do it properly. Main issues that daemonkin have that I am aware of are;

-Why is Axe of Khorne 30pts in Khornes own army list when its only 10pts in a vanilla Daemon army

Yup one stupidity i have a hard time swallowing, even though i understand that 10pts for an AP2, Decapitation weapon on an T4, 3+ model, would be too good.

Axe of Khorne *is* too good for 10pts, however I've made it that price because a) Khorne needs to be good at *something* and b) that what it costs in Chaos Daemons.

Yup , even though the rules are clear on what happens, it doesn't change the fact that having a FMC deep strike at turn 3 or 4, is anything but usefull...

Given half the people I talk to think it works one way and the other half another (though most of them agree its dumb) I'd say its not clear at all!

I just regret there is no special rule that allows for Deamons engines a bit more survivability, like an invul save reroll or a +1 to their invul save.

This is a good idea, a +1 to Invuln on Daemon Engines would make sense here as it seems like a silly GW-esk oversight to apply the defensive buff only to living troops.

Also wish that one of the Bloodtithe was a run+assault kind of deal.

As this is ultimately a suggestion to Zagman for the proper errata I'd prefer to stick to the basic idea of this whole project - minimal changes. A Run+Assault would be great and should be there but I think it goes too far outside the scope of this project.

-Cannot take Daemon Princes in the Heavy slot by fielding a Bloodthirster.

i really don't feel it like its such a big loss IMO, Khorne DPrince will always be sub par compared to others FMC.

They are pretty meh, but at least after the zaghammer changes they're cheaper. Its just another case of keeping parity with the Chaos Daemons codex - CD being able to spam more Princes of Khorne than Daemonkin is silly.

-Possessed are terrible and use the normal terrible possessed mutation chart rather than either the good one from Crimson Slaughter or a Khorne specific one. Same deal to a lesser extent for spawn.

Then you must have read their Mutation chart wrong, their rule says that they roll on the chart in each Fight sub-phase and that the effects last untill the end of the GAME TURN( meaning your turn, AND your opponents turn), but you still roll each Fight sub-phase, so...you get 2 Mutations per turn has long that you are in CC, wich is better then regular Possessed, also their first results allows you to reroll failed to Hit rolls, while in CSM its failed to wound.

As much as I want possessed to be good, that seems like a(nother) rules oversight on GW's part.

 Zagman wrote:

lustigjh wrote:
I believe Pink Horrors should at the very least have access to all of Tzeentch's discipline. If this requires nerfing of their warp charge generation then so be it - I'd rather give them some means of varied offense than have easy warp charges.

That is an option, but the goal was to reduce Daemon Pregame in addition to balancing out Horrors. Sure, they are still relatively inexpensive WC batteries, but now they don't bog down pregame and done have access a wide array of Malefic powers, which IMO was problematic.

Now opponents have less units to worry about what powers they have, and the game will run a lot smoother. I really don't want to have to roll for Horrors pregame anymore on either side. And this gives them a good offenseive shooting attack so they are less likely to be supply WC for others and more likely for themselves.

I still don't like the dumbing down of their uses and abilities but I see your point and am going to trust your judgement on this one.