Convincing a friend to stay with 40k

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Noir**

Roknar wrote:Where could I find those? The ITC missions that is.

You will not do your friend any good by follow the I'm still having fun so there must be a way to make my friend have fun too, path

Psienesis wrote:Is he wanting to quit because he's losing all the time, or is he wanting to quit because of what he reads on the internet and is worried about what he might face?

Yes, because he can't have any other reason, the over/under power stuff is just what drives the final nail in. It is not the root cause in anyone I know, I doubt it is here as well.

**Roknar**

Psienesis wrote:
Is he wanting to quit because he's losing all the time, or is he wanting to quit because of what he reads on the internet and is worried about what he might face?

No, he's just increasingly upset of where 40k is going. Especially in comparison to more thought out systems out there.

But we have yet to find a game we're all happy with. We would have tried the assassin board game if it wasn't a boxed set of assassins with some some cultists thrown in....oh and a board game. Versus a board game, that happens to have some nice minis.

Relic isn't half bad, but of course it doesn't have quite the shelf live that a tcg or tabletop has. Conquest seemed nice when I first saw it, but it didn't seem to lend itself well to team play. There was also a concern of support. Dungeon Command for example died pretty early.

We might end up playing infinity eventually, despite having reservations about it, as the system seems pretty nice. But we'd rather look elsewhere first. We're all pretty meh towards warmahordes.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ShaneTB wrote:
Roknar wrote:
And yea, Shane. I'd like to have a look at those rules.

Playing CS so here come the quick bulletpoints.

We agreed some core rules for each mode before we started. There are still tweaks to be made.

Circle Pit

3 deployment zones - width ways - two corner and one middle (in a semi circle)
loads of los blocking terrain
roll for deployment; lowest deploys first
roll for turn order; highest goes first
highest is after lowest
middle is after highest
lowest is after middle
no seize; no first blood/linebreaker/warlord
kill points but you only get points for units of your targeted army; no matter who killed them
2 VP for a warlord kill and this is open to whoever killed them
variable game length

We discussed afterwards that we will try rolling for first go each turn.

King of the Hill

3 deployment zones - length ways - 2 corners and one middle - complete los blocking terrain to divide the two armies deploying on close corners
hill with statue (or something similar) in the middle; it is normal terrain (not difficult)
if at the end of your turn you have any modesl/units on the hill you get a point
at the end of the game the player with majority models/units on the hill at that time gets D3 points
variable game length
no kill points/first blood/warlord/line breaker

There's some photos of it in action on my Twitter from last Saturday if visually seeing it helps (@35on40k).

thanks ^^

**Talizvar**

My group just creates scenarios.
Usually a general list selection "guide" is given to hint at the objectives.
I tend to include some broad "lottery" scenario bonuses and objectives so I have no easy means to tailor my force.
The viewpoint that you could be required to switch forces is a good guide to attempt balance.
I like applying some "random" surprise challenge mid-game to keep things interesting like the various upsets you would read in a book.
The main good point with 40k is it a good general "sandbox" for making a game with some story.
To appeal to more competitive elements, some restrictions beyond the normal rules tend to be needed.

**Roknar**

I'm not sure what you mean by switching forces? Like switching lists mid game?

We wouldn't mind having like a GM or so, but none of us willing to take on the role. Partly because we would prefer to have 4 players and 1 GM, if we were to do something like that. But then we would proabably try d&d or pathfinder or some such instead of 40k. Not that I see that happening any time soon.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Has anybody tried something along these lines:

Having events on one board/game affecting another board/game? You know, like in a coop videogame.

**Talizvar**

Roknar wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean by switching forces? Like switching lists mid game?

Imagine if you had to play your opponent's army.
No problem for you, should be no problem for them to play the scenario you made.

We wouldn't mind having like a GM or so, but none of us willing to take on the role. Partly because we would prefer to have 4 players and 1 GM, if we were to do something like that. But then we would proabably try d&d or pathfinder or some such instead of 40k. Not that I see that happening any time soon.

That is why I add a few key unknown / random elements so that it balances out the fact I made the scenario but some things I will not know for sure within it.
I really want people to play not be some referee.

Maybe some limited skirmish / warband type games?
Your terrain could make it fun.
Maybe dust off some Necromunda rules and see if that makes it interesting.
Another odd-ball thing to try is "In the Emperor's Name" http://iten-game.org/
I figure as long as you get to play with your "best" models and can all agree to some rule set, you should be fine.

We do have a variety of other games in case one needs a break so I would not dismiss that your group is in some 40k burnout and just need a rest from it in general.

**ShaneTB**

Roknar wrote:

Has anybody tried something along these lines:

Having events on one board/game affecting another board/game? You know, like in a coop videogame.

Considering it for when we have two boards set up. You could have tech rigs as objectives. And maybe on end of turn 3 it affects the opposite board (so the rocket silo launches onto the opposing board as a blast marker).

Edit #1: You could also have the player that wins the most set up in the middle of the board on a relic. All other player are after the relic. Do it for fun (as is tradition).

**Roknar**

Never got to play necromunda. That said I'd be interested if they made a modern remake though.

**niv-mizzet**

Roknar wrote:
Where could I find those? The ITC missions that is.

Frontline gaming's website. https://www.frontlinegaming.org/community/frontline-gamings-independent-tournament-circuit/itc-2015-season-40k-tournament-format/

Note that you do not have to follow this to the letter. You could simply use it as inspiration and change things about it you don't like. The main thing that I like about the format is that choosing first or second is actually a hard choice. They both have their own advantages and disadvantages.

**Davor**

House Rules. Simple. What you guys find is no fun or broken, change them. Especially when it's the same people playing and not playing strangers, fix the game.

Actually in your groups case there is no excuse for not making house rules to play the game. If you don't do it, you are just as bad as GW for making and playing with shoddy rules.

You have nobody to blame but yourselves if your friend leaves. The power is in your hands to fix what he see's broken. It's one reason why I stopped playing 40K. 40K had to be played their way in how they think it should be played and it became no fun to play no more.

Change. Fix what you think is broken and keep having fun. Otherwise once you loose one player, more can follow after him and then you will have no one to play with.

**Torga_DW**

If he's not enjoying the game and the direction its headed, probably best not to try and convince him to stay. He may one day change his mind and rejoin, but that becomes less likely the more he is exposed to something he finds toxic.

**Eadartri**

Roknar wrote:
A friend of mine is on the verge of quitting 40k. The balance is all over the place, now more than ever, and with exclusive rules and now formations of detachments of formations with ridiculous bonuses the game is increasingly being decided by who goes first. Which is even worse if somebody seizes.

Whoever goes first can pretty much cripple the other guy without him ever being able to do gak about it and can pretty much determine the game before he even get his first turn.
With my group that's made even worse by playing 2v2 teams of 1k each. It's happened that one player has all but been wiped off the board turn 1.

And it looks like power creep is going completely nuts at the moment, so I'm not really sure what to tell him. All I can think of right now is to change our games to play apocalypse with 2k armies for each team member. I get the impression that the more points you play the less impact all these imbalanced units and rules have. A wraithknight at 1k points could pretty much take on an army all by itself depending on the list. And at 2k you start getting points for void shields or bunkers n stuff that lessen the strain too.

Would that help? or do you have any good arguments that might convince to stay.

Terrain and reserves come to mind. Would more terrain help? Can he place some units in reserve?

**Noir**

Roknar wrote:
Never got to play necromunda. That said I'd be interested if they made a modern remake though.

Have you looked at Judge Dredd. It pretty much the same, with team building, level ups, heroes and mooks and merc, plus lots more options for gangs and Judge Death is playable.

**Gavik Dross**

In my opinion if he wants to leave let him. Sure don't let him sell/burn his models but IMO some distance and time can really help with this kind of stuff.
He may come back, he may find another game he likes better elsewhere and convince you to play too.
Sometimes you just need something else for a while to get some perspective.