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 MrFlutterPie wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:

 MrFlutterPie wrote:
I've always believed that the Fantasy world is an isolated feudal world somewhere in the 40K universe that the Imperium hasn't discovered yet.

The big link for me is that the chaos gods and Gork and Mork exist in both both places.

The Eldar and High Elves also share all the same gods.

Aren't all of the Eldar gods dead expect for the Laughing god? Who do the Elves worship then?

The Elves and Eldar worship some of the same gods, but the Elven gods in WHFB are still alive and well. Yet another hint that both universes aren't linked.
They also do not share all of the same gods. The Elves do not have Cegorach, Gea, and Ynnead, while the Eldar do not have Hoeth, Ereth Khial, Mathlann and Anath Raema.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Psienesis wrote:
The biggest break, I think, comes in the fact that there's not really a God-Emperor in Fantasy. There's the Emperor, Karl-Franz the Whatever-Number-this-Week.... but he's not all that powerful a ruler, is fairly inept and isn't a divine ruler. Plus, there's all the human kingdoms that aren't part of the Empire.

Sigmar is Fantasy's God-Emperor. He was an Emperor who was turned into a god after his dead, just like the emperor of 40k.

Right... except the Sigmarian cult is one of the smallest outside of the Empire, and is challenged by/competes with a bevvy of other, perfectly-legal religions. Sigmar is also the founder of the Empire, but does not continue to rule it... and the various Emperors and Elector-Counts that have warmed the thrones throughout the history of the Old World aren't considered to be aspects of him, reincarnations of him, or anything of the sort. It might be a link, but it's an exceptionally weak one.

I was always under the impression that the Fantasy was a separate dimension directly linked to the 40k universe through the warp. The Old Ones when forced out of the Old World fled into the 40k universe (or vice versa) and possibly fled into yet another alternate dimension when things went poorly once again. As people have shown with a variety of evidence already, the barrier between dimensions was by no means impermeable and it was common for imperial equipment from ships lost in the warp to pass through the barrier like flotsam washing up on the shores of the Old World. Since the warp does not follow any rational physics, time, etc. events are not happening in concert between the worlds.

You have Be'lakor who is present in both 40k and fantasy.

Also the Liber Chaotica books suggest a tie between the two worlds, but the tie is the warp like what has been mentioned in the thread earlier.

Here is a post by the author of Liber Chaotica explaining

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?45416-Warhammer-Cross-Over-Fluff&p=871142#post871142

 Kommissar Waaaghrick wrote:
It can be pointed out that's old, it doesn't count, that's been retconned. I'm a bit more open-minded because, after years of GW saying 40k's Imperium has forbid A.I., that the Robots from 1st ed Rogue Trader are old, they don't count, they've been retconned...they're now back in the Cult Mechanicus book as Kastelans.

A.I. is still forbidden.
Imperial Robots don't have A.I. and never did, they're simply programmed to do things.

 Kain wrote:
Also Cegorach has no fantasy counterpart.

There's Loec, who is very similar.

The Skaven accidently contacted the Eldar using some ancient communication equiptment in a recent book. Of course being Skaven they immediatly got scared and shot the machine to pieces.

But yes 40k and fantasy are connected.

 dan2026 wrote:
The Skaven accidently contacted the Eldar using some ancient communication equiptment in a recent book. Of course being Skaven they immediatly got scared and shot the machine to pieces.

But yes 40k and fantasy are connected.

It wasn't the Eldar, that is only fan speculation.
40k and Fantasy can't be connected due to several fundamental differences in how stuff works in both universes. Of course, the Warp is really weird, so you could always find a way to see a connection somewhere. But officially, there is none.

They don't have to be in the same universe. The warp is connected to other universes- Fantasy could very well be completely disconnected from the Materium of 40K while having a warp portal between the two.

It would explain how warp-related races like the Old Ones and Draigo can pop into fantasy, yet we've never heard of Necrons or Tyranids accidentally stumbling in.

 Wyzilla wrote:
They don't have to be in the same universe. The warp is connected to other universes- Fantasy could very well be completely disconnected from the Materium of 40K while having a warp portal between the two.

It would explain how warp-related races like the Old Ones and Draigo can pop into fantasy, yet we've never heard of Necrons or Tyranids accidentally stumbling in.

Well, the Fantasy universe is kind of destroyed at the moment so I don't think we'll be getting anymore crossovers.

 Kain wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
They don't have to be in the same universe. The warp is connected to other universes- Fantasy could very well be completely disconnected from the Materium of 40K while having a warp portal between the two.

It would explain how warp-related races like the Old Ones and Draigo can pop into fantasy, yet we've never heard of Necrons or Tyranids accidentally stumbling in.

Well, the Fantasy universe is kind of destroyed at the moment so I don't think we'll be getting anymore crossovers.

The planet was destroyed. The universe it exists in is still A-OK.

As others have said they are connected through the warp, over the years there have been a fair amount of connections betrlween the 2, most recently kabanda turned up in fantasy, a 40k greater deamon, belakor too, soul grinder that are built in the soulforge and have somehow made it to fantasy, power fist and chainsword, there are more but suffice to say they are connected.

Wait so happened to the fantasy planet? How does the story go on if the planet exploded?

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:
Wait so happened to the fantasy planet? How does the story go on if the planet exploded?

Chaos got handed a free win because Mannfred is a whiny crybaby, Chaos rift swallowed the whole world; everyone died except for one mysterious guy (oh who are we kidding it's obviously Sigmar), holding the last spark of the old world, possibly to restore it to life.

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:
Wait so happened to the fantasy planet? How does the story go on if the planet exploded?

It didn't explode, it was slowly consumed by Chaos. The storyline was advanced to the only point it could go, the end. (that is what you get for wanting to advance the storyline on a setting stuck just before the end )
It has been rumoured that 9th edition will start over with a clean slate.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:
Wait so happened to the fantasy planet? How does the story go on if the planet exploded?

It didn't explode, it was slowly consumed by Chaos. The storyline was advanced to the only point it could go, the end. (that is what you get for wanting to advance the storyline on a setting stuck just before the end )
It has been rumoured that 9th edition will start over with a clean slate.

Well, they could have ended it with "Archaon gets his incompetent ass killed and the Norscan, Kurgan, and Hung are completely genocided into oblivion saving the world."

Or "Orcs kill everyone.

Or "Nagash ascends and kills the Chaos Gods and then kills everyone."

Or "The Slann unfuck the plan, everything's fine now."

Or "The Skaven stab Archaon in the back with a replica of the fellblade and save the world" and then Archaon goes ""Skaven, y you du dis?" And the Skaven go "Lol, can't trust us manthing." Meanwhile Slaanesh decides she likes the world too much to destroy it and Tzeentch sabotages Chaos' entire end game because Tzeentch doesn't like winning.

 Kain wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:
Wait so happened to the fantasy planet? How does the story go on if the planet exploded?

It didn't explode, it was slowly consumed by Chaos. The storyline was advanced to the only point it could go, the end. (that is what you get for wanting to advance the storyline on a setting stuck just before the end )
It has been rumoured that 9th edition will start over with a clean slate.

Well, they could have ended it with "Archaon gets his incompetent ass killed and the Norscan, Kurgan, and Hung are completely genocided into oblivion saving the world."

Or "Orcs kill everyone.

Or "Nagash ascends and kills the Chaos Gods and then kills everyone."

Or "The Slann unfuck the plan, everything's fine now."

Or "The Skaven stab Archaon in the back with a replica of the fellblade and save the world" and then Archaon goes ""Skaven, y you du dis?" And the Skaven go "Lol, can't trust us manthing." Meanwhile Slaanesh decides she likes the world too much to destroy it and Tzeentch sabotages Chaos' entire end game because Tzeentch doesn't like winning.

Even if Archaon got killed Chaos would win eventually.
Orcs killing everyone would have been unlikely due to Orcs being orcs and usually don't stay united for long.
The Nagash ending would have been possible but the outcome would have been the same except with chaos replaced by undead.
The Slann are not powerful enough to fight the Chaos gods.
Slaanesh would not save the world because he/she/it couldn't care less about it being way too busy with other more interesting games. Tzeentch would not sabotage a Chaos victory because that would mean a return to the status quo and therefore not change. Chaos winning and consuming changes a lot more stuff. Change !
The ultimate victory of Chaos was inevitable, just like it is in 40k. It is also the best ending, because all the other endings are not grimdark enough.

This may be a little off subject but since it was mentioned here it made me think--has anyone ever done an army of Slann using Lizardmen as conversion models?

 Iron_Captain wrote:


Secondly the time line does not add up. In 40k, Slaanesh was born in M30. The Primarchs were also created at this time. Sigmar was born 5600 years after Chaos (already including Slaanesh) first appeared in the Fantasy universe and therefore can not be a Primarch unless he stayed on Terra for 5600 years after being created while also still being an infant.

Time. Is. Different. In. Warp. There's even Ordo Chronos in Inquisition that deals with these time anomallies. Also chaos gods think they all were born at the same time or always existed.


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 Iron_Captain wrote:

The ultimate victory of Chaos was inevitable, just like it is in 40k. It is also the best ending, because all the other endings are not grimdark enough.

Well, if Chaos consumes the Galaxy, gods will some kind of run out of food, sooner or later. And then Malice comes out of the shadows, feeding on the Chaos' self-destruction.

Slaanesh would not save the world because he/she/it couldn't care less about it being way too busy with other more interesting games.

Actually at the final batle its stated that Slaanesh is having manjor second thoughts about all the fun it will be deprieved once the mortals are gone from this world (especially the Elves) and sends its worst Greater Daemon to the final fight - its apparently pretty mind addled

I think Chaos will be very happy if the world is reborn - "oooohhhh look new TOYS!" winning is ok but not if there are no more games - I always thought Chaos likes the game more than the conclusion.

 Mr Morden wrote:

I always thought Chaos likes the game more than the conclusion.

Yea, and that's why some think the Horus Heresy is part of the deal Emperor made with Chaos Gods. Maybe something 've gone wrong for the Emperor ( Magnus and his incautious warp messages that break things), but he can still arise soeday...

 BioVass wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:


Secondly the time line does not add up. In 40k, Slaanesh was born in M30. The Primarchs were also created at this time. Sigmar was born 5600 years after Chaos (already including Slaanesh) first appeared in the Fantasy universe and therefore can not be a Primarch unless he stayed on Terra for 5600 years after being created while also still being an infant.

Time. Is. Different. In. Warp. There's even Ordo Chronos in Inquisition that deals with these time anomallies. Also chaos gods think they all were born at the same time or always existed.

In the Warp yes. Not in the physical universe. In the Warp, Slaanesh may have always existed, but that does not change the fact that he was born only in M30. By the laws of the physical universe, he can not possibly have existed or influenced it before that time.
Whatever the Ordo Chronos does is unknown. Also, they have all disappeared, so there is no more Ordo Chronos.

 BioVass wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

The ultimate victory of Chaos was inevitable, just like it is in 40k. It is also the best ending, because all the other endings are not grimdark enough.

Well, if Chaos consumes the Galaxy, gods will some kind of run out of food, sooner or later. And then Malice comes out of the shadows, feeding on the Chaos' self-destruction.

Yes, that is why it likely that in 9th edition the Warhammer World or something like it will pop back up. I hope so at least.
Imo, Malice/Malal is one of the most stupid pieces of fluff in 40k/Fantasy, and on about the same level of canon as Illiyan Nastase. There are always mentioned four gods of Chaos, and that is the way it is supposed to be. Shoehorning an extra Chaos god in is like suddenly making up 2 Emperors instead of one.

Except Slaanesh has drastically affected the universe before it was born. Slaanesh was the creator of the cults that led to its creation in the first place.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Except Slaanesh has drastically affected the universe before it was born. Slaanesh was the creator of the cults that led to its creation in the first place.

Source please?
Afaik it was the Eldar's natural tendency to seek ever greater thrills and powerful emotions that led to the creation of the pleasure cults.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Except Slaanesh has drastically affected the universe before it was born. Slaanesh was the creator of the cults that led to its creation in the first place.

Source please?
Afaik it was the Eldar's natural tendency to seek ever greater thrills and powerful emotions that led to the creation of the pleasure cults.

Found it, it was from Farseer by William King. A Slaanesh Daemon Prince/Greater Daemon was the cause of the cults in the first place, "paving the way for its god's birth", although it enters a paradox as Greater Daemons/Princes are aspects or exalted of the god's power, meaning it existed much like a hand without the body.

 lordseamus wrote:
This may be a little off subject but since it was mentioned here it made me think--has anyone ever done an army of Slann using Lizardmen as conversion models?

Lots of people who played Lizardmen in WHF. That is, after all, the backstory to the faction.

Since the Slann don't have any rules in 40K, it would be difficult to do this for anything other than a set-piece army.

In the Warp yes. Not in the physical universe. In the Warp, Slaanesh may have always existed, but that does not change the fact that he was born only in M30. By the laws of the physical universe, he can not possibly have existed or influenced it before that time.

Warp trumps physical in almost every case, including this one.

I prefer to think of the FB world and the 40k worlds as different incarnations of the same universe. In the same way there's an Oliver Queen in Arrow, in JLU, in Smallville etc. They're all clearly 'the same' right down to the names, but they're not linked universes. A Bloodthirster that can cleave apart Leman Russ MBTs and take a hit from a lascannon would be utterly, entirely unstoppable in the FB world. I do think they used to be linked- just like their systems were virtually identical- but each has gone it's own way and anything.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Except Slaanesh has drastically affected the universe before it was born. Slaanesh was the creator of the cults that led to its creation in the first place.

Source please?
Afaik it was the Eldar's natural tendency to seek ever greater thrills and powerful emotions that led to the creation of the pleasure cults.

Found it, it was from Farseer by William King. A Slaanesh Daemon Prince/Greater Daemon was the cause of the cults in the first place, "paving the way for its god's birth", although it enters a paradox as Greater Daemons/Princes are aspects or exalted of the god's power, meaning it existed much like a hand without the body.

Yes, that would not really be possible by established fluff of what Greater Deamons and Deamon princes are. Since every other source about the Fall of the Eldar mentions that the Eldar caused their own downfall rather than to be manipulated by a nonexistant Slaanesh I am inclined to believe that.

 Psienesis wrote:

In the Warp yes. Not in the physical universe. In the Warp, Slaanesh may have always existed, but that does not change the fact that he was born only in M30. By the laws of the physical universe, he can not possibly have existed or influenced it before that time.

Warp trumps physical in almost every case, including this one.

Not really. The Warp can't influence the physical universe directly.

 Psienesis wrote:
The biggest break, I think, comes in the fact that there's not really a God-Emperor in Fantasy. There's the Emperor, Karl-Franz the Whatever-Number-this-Week.... but he's not all that powerful a ruler, is fairly inept and isn't a divine ruler. Plus, there's all the human kingdoms that aren't part of the Empire.

The 40k emperor doesn't reveal his full abilities until the age of strife remember

So? I'm talking about thematic elements, not in-universe gubbins.

So he could theoretically be Sigmar. I don't personally think he is and I prefer to keep the worlds separate, but thematically, he unified all the warring human tribes to stand against bigger threats to humanity, was more like a god in abilities than a man. There is an obvious comparison, but that could equally be lack of imagination in the writing early on.