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2015/05/27 19:40:42
Subject: FIFA officials arrested in Switzerland, facing extradiction to the US on corruption charges
Obviously, I think that stadiums like the one built for Athens or, apparently Beijing are already falling apart, but stadiums like LA Memorial gets a crap load of use to this day (home to UCLA, USC, some soccer stuff, Rose Bowl, etc. etc.)
That's because they build them for one purpose, and didn't plan for any use afterwards. It's really pretty sad:
Oh this keeps getting better, I can just imagine the President of the BBC, sitting in his drawing room, reading this morning's Times when he lets loose a great "EGAD!" and his monocle falls into his tea with a resounding plop.
"The Americans? How can the Americans prosocute FIFA? They don't even like football!"
Yeah you think I'm telling fibs, but just look at that headline, LOOK ATIT!
If I might venture a guess, and I do so hate to go all 'Murica! on you, but maybe, just maybe the reason the US is leading the charge against FIFA corruption is the rest of y'all are gutless?
Fifa scandal: Why the US is policing a global game
America does not even like football, or so many people think. Why is it leading the charge against alleged Fifa corruption?
Spoiler:
At dawn, Swiss police rounded up seven Fifa officials at the behest of US authorities who have conducted a massive investigation into corruption at football's governing body.
So how did a country where football is more niche than entrenched come to police the world's beautiful game?
"Too many countries are cowed by Fifa," said Alexandra Wrage, a former Fifa anti-bribery adviser who resigned in protest from the organisation.
"As with international bribery more generally, the US Department of Justice has said they'll step up to investigate corruption if others won't," she said.
How can the US police a global game?
The suspects were shielded from journalists by a white sheet
Speaking to reporters just hours after the arrests in Switzerland, FBI Director James Comey set out why the US was able to act.
"If you touch our shores with your corrupt enterprise, whether that is through meetings or through using our world class financial system, you will be held accountable for that corruption," he said.
As it turns out, many of those soccer officials did both, according to the charges.
To prosecute cases that involve foreign nationals, US authorities need only prove a minor connection to the United States.
But in the case of the charges made public on Wednesday, the alleged corruption hit right at the heart of the game in the US.
FBI Director James Comey
Fifa and the confederations under it make money by selling the marketing and media rights to the World Cup and other tournaments that they organise.
The charges largely relate to "the systematic payment of bribes and kickbacks" that were paid by marketing executives who wanted to increase their chances at winning contracts for the rights to market and sell media access to tournaments.
These bribes were at times organised during meetings in the US, and some of the money was transferred through US bank accounts.
What sparked the US investigation?
At a news conference on Wednesday, the acting US Attorney for the Eastern District of New York, Kelly Currie, noted the scale of the allegations.
"This sort of bribery and corruption in international soccer has been going on for two decades. Our investigation...that itself took years," he said.
Fifa President Sepp Blatter (r) with Mohammed bin Hammam in Qatar in 2010
It is not clear what specific event - if any - prompted the US investigation. Some have pointed to the United States' failed bid in late 2010 to host the the 2022 World Cup, and suspicions that bribes were paid to encourage votes for Qatar.
"I know some people who were in the US bidding committee... they all had really strong suspicions that somebody was getting bought off," said Andrew Zimbalist, author of Circus Maximus: The Economic Gamble Behind Hosting the Olympics and the World Cup. He told the BBC that he suspected the justice department likely got involved following the failed bid.
The choice of Qatar raised suspicions in part because of the extremely high temperatures it experiences during the summer months - a fact that prompted a Fifa taskforce to recommend the games be played in November and December rather than the usual June-July timeframe.
In the hours after the dawn arrests, Swiss authorities said they were opening a separate investigation relating to the bids for the 2018 and 2022 World Cup tournaments.
How deep are the US ties to the case?
The Miami offices of Concacaf, the football federation under Fifa that governs the game in North America, Central America and the Caribbean, were raided by FBI agents early on Wednesday.
Two of the people who have been charged - Jeffrey Webb and Jack Warner - are the current and past heads of Concacaf, respectively.
Authorities raided Concacaf headquarters in Miami early on Wednesday
It is not clear what specifically the authorities are looking for in these raids, but many of the charges that were revealed today involve bribery and kickback schemes.
These schemes are related to the media and marketing rights for World Cup qualifying games in the Concacaf region, as well as the Concacaf Gold Cup, the Concacaf Champions League, and several others.
The Copa América, which is set to be held for the first time outside of South America in 2016 when it will be played in the US, was highlighted for the corruption that surrounds it.
"Our investigation revealed that what should have been an expression of international sportsmanship was used as a vehicle in this broader scheme to line executives' pockets with bribes totalling $110 million [£71m], nearly a third of the legitimate cost of the rights to the tournaments involved," US Attorney General Lynch said during a news conference detailing the charges.
Concacaf has been in trouble in the past.
In 2012 Concacaf turned itself into US tax authorities and admitted to not paying taxes for several years.
Chuck Blazer's plea was unsealed on Wednesday
Among those at the helm of the organisation was secretary general Chuck Blazer, who also served as a Fifa executive committee member.
It was also revealed on Wednesday that in 2013 he pleaded guilty to several charges related to corruption.
Just months ago, the New York Daily News reported that Mr Blazer has been working as an informant for US authorities.
The newspaper said that he met with soccer officials on the sidelines of the 2012 Olympics in London, and used a hidden microphone on a keychain to gather intelligence.
This report has not been independently confirmed. Officials say the corruption investigation is on-going.
"Nobody is above or beyond the law," FBI Director Comey said. "We will not stop until we send messages that this is not the way things should be and that they must be different".
2015/05/28 01:54:58
Subject: FIFA officials arrested in Switzerland, facing extradiction to the US on corruption charges
But, I do agree Cincy. I say the same of the olympics, but with a few more countries. While it can bring in money, building those stadiums often leaves alot of the more poorer people displaced by the building.
Typically only when structures are erected specifically for the Olympics. That's why the countries I listed make sense; they already have a massive stadium and hotel infrastructure. No new construction is really needed.
With the olympics, arguments could be made that goes against the spirit of the olympics.
But in all reality, the Olympics is a clusterfeth when it comes to the host town specifically because the money involved.
5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
2015/05/28 01:57:56
Subject: Re:FIFA officials arrested in Switzerland, facing extradiction to the US on corruption charges
Obviously, I think that stadiums like the one built for Athens or, apparently Beijing are already falling apart, but stadiums like LA Memorial gets a crap load of use to this day (home to UCLA, USC, some soccer stuff, Rose Bowl, etc. etc.)
That's because they build them for one purpose, and didn't plan for any use afterwards. It's really pretty sad:
But the success stories for venues constructed purely for the games/cup are few and far between.
It's why it makes more sense to host these events in countries that already have infrastructure in place to do so.
EXCEPT! EXCEPT! EXCEPT!
You're assuming the IOC/FIFA etc want affordable, sustainable events.
They do not.
They don't want to hear about your plan to hang some Olympic rings in Yankee Stadium and call it a day, no, no, no.
They want glorious new stadiums to rise, both as monuments to their glory and as massive money pits they can pluck fortunes out of.
Oh you're building a new stadium for the World Cup huh? Well it just so happens you'll need these special, special lights, which only my company makes. And you'll want a consultant to make sure you have the right kind of grass, and it just so happens my brother in law can help with that...
Can't do that if they're running the event in existing venues.
2015/05/28 02:11:04
Subject: FIFA officials arrested in Switzerland, facing extradiction to the US on corruption charges
But, I do agree Cincy. I say the same of the olympics, but with a few more countries. While it can bring in money, building those stadiums often leaves alot of the more poorer people displaced by the building.
Typically only when structures are erected specifically for the Olympics. That's why the countries I listed make sense; they already have a massive stadium and hotel infrastructure. No new construction is really needed.
With the olympics, arguments could be made that goes against the spirit of the olympics.
But in all reality, the Olympics is a clusterfeth when it comes to the host town specifically because the money involved.
I'm not following how that goes against the spirit of the Olympics.
Hell, Columbus Ohio and Austin Texas are probably more equipped to handle an Olympiad/FIFA event than most countries.
You're right, though, kyoto. They want these new constructions. To hell with the cities and the massive debt they're left with. It's a shame.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/28 02:11:32
2015/05/28 02:14:31
Subject: FIFA officials arrested in Switzerland, facing extradiction to the US on corruption charges
Many people see the Olympics as a world thing, so limiting it to a handful of countries especially mostly European and America would go against the idea about how inclusive it is meant to be.
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2015/05/28 02:17:54
Subject: FIFA officials arrested in Switzerland, facing extradiction to the US on corruption charges
You can throw Australia on that list too. They have the correct infrastructure for it.
I mean, with Australia that's 4 of the 6 inhabited continents.... I'm sorry, I just don't think any South American or African country can reasonably host and not have major problems. We've seen it with both South Africa and Brazil.
2015/05/28 02:20:42
Subject: FIFA officials arrested in Switzerland, facing extradiction to the US on corruption charges
hotsauceman1 wrote: Many people see the Olympics as a world thing, so limiting it to a handful of countries especially mostly European and America would go against the idea about how inclusive it is meant to be.
I think the issue there lies in the security of the games. Let's face it, many athletes, particularly in the summer games, and particularly of a select few events could be potentially VERY lucrative if they were kidnapped.... Imagine for a moment that Qatar is hosting a summer olympics, and some ISIS or Al Qaeda "operatives" were able to snatch Lebron up due to the less than adequate security.
I think that, especially since the Atlanta games in 96, security of the venues, athletes and spectators are of massive concern to organizers. Obviously, some bad things have happened during the olympics (looking at Atlanta and Munich), but IMHO, that risk is magnified if you host the games at a less than developed country.
2015/05/28 02:42:10
Subject: FIFA officials arrested in Switzerland, facing extradiction to the US on corruption charges
Compel wrote: Silly question... But why the FBI and America?
Many of the alleged offences occurred on US soil, or went through US banks.
A whistle-blower who exposed corrupt practices over the Qatar 2022 world cup bid, has had death threats made against her. The whistle blower is a US citizen.
All in all, there is legal justification for this.
The US is also way more active on corporate malfeasance and similar issues than most other countries.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
hotsauceman1 wrote: With the olympics, arguments could be made that goes against the spirit of the olympics.
But in all reality, the Olympics is a clusterfeth when it comes to the host town specifically because the money involved.
That's a pretty simplistic argument. The Olympics are a huge expense, always, but whether that expense is outweighed by the benefits is a different matter entirely, which depends on the quality of management of the host nation, and whether there is a greater national purpose to hosting the games.
Beijing, for instance, showcased China as a major new player on the world stage - people's understanding of China completely changed over the course of two weeks. Their prestige, and therefore their ability to project influence, ramped up massively. Sydney was about showcasing Australia for tourism, and it paid off massively - the next ten years returned more in increased tourism each year than the cost of hosting.
On the other side you get Greece, which was poorly managed with massive cost over-runs, and had no coherent national goal outside.
Point is, the Olympics might be a disastrous money pit, or it might be a huge national boost. There's no simple story here.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/28 03:08:07
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2015/05/28 03:53:15
Subject: FIFA officials arrested in Switzerland, facing extradiction to the US on corruption charges
That's a pretty simplistic argument. The Olympics are a huge expense, always, but whether that expense is outweighed by the benefits is a different matter entirely, which depends on the quality of management of the host nation, and whether there is a greater national purpose to hosting the games.
Another side to that, when looking at events such as the FIFA World Cup, or the Rugby World Cup, the countries that host those events don't have to shell out near the money (though they undoubtedly don't see the return on investment over the long haul like Australia did with the Sydney Olympics) because each venue is largely the "same"... it's a soccer field, or a rugby pitch, or heck, a baseball field if we're talking the World Baseball Classic that's been picking up steam.
I think that the more a country has to do in order to get "games ready", the more they have to turn over in order for it to maintain a profit over the long term. IMO, Brazil should be looking OK on that front because while they are building stuff for the Olympics, they already fronted a bunch of that money for the Soccer WC (IIRC, the main stadium for the World Cup finals is the "Olympic stadium" that will be used next year to host the Olympics)
2015/05/28 05:13:22
Subject: FIFA officials arrested in Switzerland, facing extradiction to the US on corruption charges
You can throw Australia on that list too. They have the correct infrastructure for it.
I mean, with Australia that's 4 of the 6 inhabited continents.... I'm sorry, I just don't think any South American or African country can reasonably host and not have major problems. We've seen it with both South Africa and Brazil.
I thought that most of the issues involving Brazil had to do with the corruption and the big issues with Budweiser. I mean, they had a law changed so they could serve alcohol in the stadiums. Brazil had that law there because people died.
2015/05/28 06:45:52
Subject: FIFA officials arrested in Switzerland, facing extradiction to the US on corruption charges
Ensis Ferrae wrote: Another side to that, when looking at events such as the FIFA World Cup, or the Rugby World Cup, the countries that host those events don't have to shell out near the money (though they undoubtedly don't see the return on investment over the long haul like Australia did with the Sydney Olympics) because each venue is largely the "same"... it's a soccer field, or a rugby pitch, or heck, a baseball field if we're talking the World Baseball Classic that's been picking up steam.
I think that the more a country has to do in order to get "games ready", the more they have to turn over in order for it to maintain a profit over the long term. IMO, Brazil should be looking OK on that front because while they are building stuff for the Olympics, they already fronted a bunch of that money for the Soccer WC (IIRC, the main stadium for the World Cup finals is the "Olympic stadium" that will be used next year to host the Olympics)
Yeah, because of the need for more specialist stadiums the Olympics carries a bigger price tag, and much of what you build will produce little economic value down the line. If anyone ever got any kind of proper return on their kayak circuit I'd be amazed.
But the other side of that is that the Olympics is still the biggest sporting event, and that means the biggest upside. Though I wouldn't be surprised if the World Cup wasn't too far behind these days, despite the corruption it seems to be really growing, while the Olympics seems kind of stagnant (though I've never seen any numbers of viewing or total revenue).
And yeah, the price tag for any of these events dependent largely on how much infrastructure needs to be improved. But then that's probably the spend with the greatest chance of being useful down the line.
Incidentally the cricket world cup is a billion dollar venture these days. And that's quite incredible, when you consider that no-one in cricket really cares about the world cup anymore.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2015/05/28 06:52:50
Subject: FIFA officials arrested in Switzerland, facing extradiction to the US on corruption charges
Dont forget the social price tag either. Corporate sponsers are big for olympics. But if a small business wants to advertise, they often cant. Like england, pubs couldnt have events that refrenced that games AT ALL.
5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
2015/05/28 09:56:30
Subject: Re:FIFA officials arrested in Switzerland, facing extradiction to the US on corruption charges
This is getting way the hell out there. This is getting NUTS
The Clintons are involved, Putin is warning the USA to stop meddling, Nelson Mandela may be involved in bribery allegations
Hell, even Australia's getting stuck into FIFA
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2015/05/24 04:39:14
Subject: FIFA officials arrested in Switzerland, facing extradiction to the US on corruption charges
You can throw Australia on that list too. They have the correct infrastructure for it.
I mean, with Australia that's 4 of the 6 inhabited continents.... I'm sorry, I just don't think any South American or African country can reasonably host and not have major problems. We've seen it with both South Africa and Brazil.
I can see/understand the argument for moving tournaments around -- time zones and that whole chance to see things in person.
But I agree that holding it in countries without suitable infrastructure and/or climate is daft.
Personally I think there's ah argument to be made that the Olympics should always be held in Greece.
Make things a lot easier for people and one would also suggest might go someway towards helping things even out a bit there too.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
2015/05/28 11:45:39
Subject: FIFA officials arrested in Switzerland, facing extradiction to the US on corruption charges
the more of FIFA that ends up in court the better (and I don't really even like football)
that said the fact that the USA does not really care too much about (world) football is also a big help in the prosecutions as they have no vested interest in keeping they system alive,
(unlike for instance if they found they had to do something that might risk the American Football or Baseball governing bodies collapsing)
so sweep the corruption away (so we can have new corruption, there's too much cash sloshing around to keep it clean for long)
2015/05/28 12:03:13
Subject: FIFA officials arrested in Switzerland, facing extradiction to the US on corruption charges
(unlike for instance if they found they had to do something that might risk the American Football or Baseball governing bodies collapsing)
Maybe we can get the Brits to go after the NFL and MLB?
I think they're mostly on the level, they're more into instutionalized corruption like blackmailing taxpayers into building them new stadiums and such, but you never know.
)
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