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 jasper76 wrote:
So I just read over the rules for Tactical Support Squads and Heavy Support Squads, and what a mess of confusion it is! I suppose its nice to see that poor technical English is not peculiar trait to the 40k writers!

Here's a gem:

The squad's sergeant may take any of the following...Exchange their (sic) heavy bolter for a Nuncio-vox and chainsword or combat blade.

So I can take a nuncio-vox and a chainsword, or I can take a combat blade with no nuncio-vox? Or I can take a nuncio-vox and either a chainsword or a combat blade. Words, people! When superglue is involved, USE YOUR WORDS!!!!

(rant over)

No, it's giving you the option between a combat blade or chainsword. No difference in stats but meh.

Lets also not forget that 30k has some imbalance as well, look at Iron Warrior's chapter tactics for example...ignore 25% morale tests (kinda cool)...and bonuses with grenades against buildings (totally useless), while Imperial Fists get BS5 with Bolter weaponry of all types

Space Marine only = ZzzzzZZZzzzzz....

You'd be amazed how much moaning about imbalance there is in 30k as well.

Still less all over the place than 40k. But much higher entry cost.

 Eldarain wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
More expensive than 40k. ( a true feat)
Less variety.
You can have any army you want as long as its space marines.

Changing quite rapidly. The different Ordos of the Mechanicum play entirely different from almost any comparison across 30/40k (As a convergence fan I think you'd like what they've done)

The Knight list is very interesting with the different FOC slots changing up how they play. The game being higher points and more destructive in general leads to them not being as absurd as they can be in 40k.

Humanity is gaining more diverse options with every book with there being a Deep Void Stormtrooper heavy list as well as Militia and Warp Cults.

And even when it is Marine on Marine the Legion rules combined with the Rites of War and the fact they didn't follow GW down the rabbit hole of trivializing the FOC means you see a lot more diversity and character from the Astartes.

While I agree that it is surprisingly varied (even just the legions are pretty varied) if it's Xenos you want then there's very little appeal

 MWHistorian wrote:
More expensive than 40k. ( a true feat)

I'd be surprised if too many people actually buy the entirity (or even most) of their 30k army with stuff bought from forgeworld. The one 30k Marine army I face from time to time is entirely composed of 40k models and vehicles, with some scratchbuilt vehicles. The 30k Ad Mech army I face from time to time is composed of 1 FW-bought unit (Thalax IIRC), and the rest is scratchbuilt vehicles and Wargames Factory models for the troops.

I'll be using 40k Marines for my little project here.

 ChazSexington wrote:
Chess is even more balanced, but really lacking in fluff and options tbh. They only have Black Legion and White Scars.

Chess White Scars Formation. (You have to buy items from GW for over 800 pounds to get the exclusive rules):

Its extremely well balanced. I only play vs 40k armies and I have lost to Dark Eldar(they took objectives better than I could). The problem in my group I have run into is people expect an army to play a certain way. Play white scars, you expect bikes. Play Blood angels, you expect jump assault troops and fast tanks, elder and tau, knights and riptides. With 30k, almost every unit is viable, but there are no auto-take units. You can make the fluffy army unlike 40k and it will still be viable.

There is no one way to play. Drives my group nuts, but in my defense, I drive 300 miles one way for a game and what I bring is what I have and I don't know who I will be playing. One day I might want my air assault, next might be my armored fist, the next might be drop pod assault or Terror Assault.

Under 2k and a 30k list is sucking. Either a very few good units on the board or a bunch of bare units. Above 2k you start to have points to play with and 30k becomes a bit tougher than the average 40k army. Even then, aside from special characters, we have no eternal Warrior, only one or two legions get a 3++ available to them, most legions only have 4++ at best, there are 2 D weapons in the entire army list, a Shadowsword and a Thunderhawk, our Praetors(commander) are no more powerful than a chapter master with less skills. Even in my army, my 175 Sevetar doesn't have EW or even a invul save.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Lets also not forget that 30k has some imbalance as well, look at Iron Warrior's chapter tactics for example...ignore 25% morale tests (kinda cool)...and bonuses with grenades against buildings (totally useless), while Imperial Fists get BS5 with Bolter weaponry of all types

Iron Warriors also re-roll failed Pinning tests, and can opt to play 6 full turns instead of rolling how long the game is.

Not too bad, I say.

They can also give all their HBs AP5 and Pinning for free. AP4 > AP5 is a minor loss since it only really matters if fighting Solar Auxilia, and Pinning is very very useful.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Lets also not forget that 30k has some imbalance as well, look at Iron Warrior's chapter tactics for example...ignore 25% morale tests (kinda cool)...and bonuses with grenades against buildings (totally useless), while Imperial Fists get BS5 with Bolter weaponry of all types

Iron Warriors also re-roll failed Pinning tests, and can opt to play 6 full turns instead of rolling how long the game is.

Not too bad, I say.

No, for both IW and Imperial Fists the opponent chooses whether you play 6 full turns or roll to see how long the game is.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Lets also not forget that 30k has some imbalance as well, look at Iron Warrior's chapter tactics for example...ignore 25% morale tests (kinda cool)...and bonuses with grenades against buildings (totally useless), while Imperial Fists get BS5 with Bolter weaponry of all types

Iron Warriors also re-roll failed Pinning tests, and can opt to play 6 full turns instead of rolling how long the game is.

Not too bad, I say.

No, for both IW and Imperial Fists the opponent chooses whether you play 6 full turns or roll to see how long the game is.

Right you are.

Well, then both can choose against each other.

 jasper76 wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
More expensive than 40k. ( a true feat)

I'd be surprised if too many people actually buy the entirity (or even most) of their 30k army with stuff bought from forgeworld. The one 30k Marine army I face from time to time is entirely composed of 40k models and vehicles, with some scratchbuilt vehicles. The 30k Ad Mech army I face from time to time is composed of 1 FW-bought unit (Thalax IIRC), and the rest is scratchbuilt vehicles and Wargames Factory models for the troops.

I'll be using 40k Marines for my little project here.

I think it's more people than you think using the Forge World models. On the B&C heresy bit for example it's definitely the minority using mostly plastic stuff from 40k, most of them (me included) use mostly FW resin stuff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Lets also not forget that 30k has some imbalance as well, look at Iron Warrior's chapter tactics for example...ignore 25% morale tests (kinda cool)...and bonuses with grenades against buildings (totally useless), while Imperial Fists get BS5 with Bolter weaponry of all types

Iron Warriors also re-roll failed Pinning tests, and can opt to play 6 full turns instead of rolling how long the game is.

Not too bad, I say.

No, for both IW and Imperial Fists the opponent chooses whether you play 6 full turns or roll to see how long the game is.

Right you are.

Well, then both can choose against each other.

Actually, how would that work haha.

Since rolling normally is the default choice and either can choose to change to 6 full turns, it appears that if either player wishes to do 6 full turns, then that is what it will be.

 ImAGeek wrote:
I think it's more people than you think using the Forge World models. On the B&C heresy bit for example it's definitely the minority using mostly plastic stuff from 40k, most of them (me included) use mostly FW resin stuff.

Due to the nature of my army, I mix CSM and Forge World resin parts (who I will use as Word Bearers in 30k).

The army is very much WIP but it looks good so far.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
More expensive than 40k. ( a true feat)

I'd be surprised if too many people actually buy the entirity (or even most) of their 30k army with stuff bought from forgeworld. The one 30k Marine army I face from time to time is entirely composed of 40k models and vehicles, with some scratchbuilt vehicles. The 30k Ad Mech army I face from time to time is composed of 1 FW-bought unit (Thalax IIRC), and the rest is scratchbuilt vehicles and Wargames Factory models for the troops.

I'll be using 40k Marines for my little project here.

I think it's more people than you think using the Forge World models. On the B&C heresy bit for example it's definitely the minority using mostly plastic stuff from 40k, most of them (me included) use mostly FW resin stuff.

Well, I play with a group of around 8 guys most regularly, so its not a big sample, and I play in the US. It's only been recently that you can even make a Forgeworld order to ship to the US under $500, or so I am told. So before they became more accessible, people would have to either spend at least $500, or group together with others to come up with an order that large.

Its a good thing they started selling directly from the website for US buyers. However, most of my friend were done spending big $$ on WH armies before this change occured.

As for me...I just don't like resin, and even if I did the FW prices are pretty laughable given the GBP-USD exchange rate.

(BTW, I'm not sure what "B&C heresy bit" is)

The Heresy section on Bolter and Chainsword.

He means the HH forum over at Bolter and Chainsword.

Ninja'd!

I'm not for a minute saying everyone uses the resin stuff, just that I think you'd be surprised at the amount who do

 ImAGeek wrote:
I'm not for a minute saying everyone uses the resin stuff, just that I think you'd be surprised at the amount who do

Gotcha Yeah, I really only have 2 local examples of 30k armies to go by. Also, the same guys with these armies are very much into (and also pretty darned good at) scratchbuilding and converting. One of the guys has spent alot in the past on various IG tanks from FW for his 40k Guard army, though.