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I'm halfway tempted to add a Sang Priest to 3 Iron Hands TFCs standing in bolstered ruins. Only downside is the guns don't get the 4+++, but still T7 2+/3+/4+++ would be fun for the enemy to remove.

Is there something that prevents the artillery guns from gaining fnp?

quickly reading the artillery section. Nothing in there to deny them FNP. they are models in the unit too.

Right... sorry, but they don't have CT, so only 5+++ on them.

Wouldn't "neither" chapter tactics imply you need BOTH models to have chapter tactics?

 Desubot wrote:
Wouldn't "neither" chapter tactics imply you need BOTH models to have chapter tactics?

Correct. Per the definition in the new Space Marines Codex, if a model does not have the Chapter Tactics special rule, it is not considered to be a member of that Chapter.

By way of example, Techmarines have the Chapter Tactics special rule, but Servitors do not. From a strict RaW standpoint, there is no such thing as an Ultramarines Chapter Servitor. Presumably, all Servitors are created (or re-created?) equal. Techmarines, on the other hand, go through additional training based on their Chapter of origin. An Ultramarines Techmarine will get the exact same benefit from 'Ultramarines' Servitors as he would if he happened across some 'Salamanders' Servitors. This is because Servitors receive no Chapter specific additional training like a Marine might.

TL: DR; - From a strict RaW standpoint, models without the Chapter Tactics special rule are not defined as belonging to a particular Chapter. This includes non-Marine "people" like Servitors as well as most Artillery and Vehicle models.

If an Ultramarines Techmarine joined a unit of Servitors purchased with a Salamanders Techmarine AFTER the Salamander Techmarine was removed as a casualty, the Ultramarines Techmarine would retain his Chapter Tactics. From a RaW standpoint, there are no other models present from a different Chapter. The Servitors, are in essence, untrained pieces of equipment and are interchangeable between Chapters.

 Homeskillet wrote:

darkcloak wrote:
Now remember Brothers, we are the Raven Guard! We strike from the shadows!

Well, actually sir, since we let SPQR over there join the squad our cover has been blown. We are surrounded by Orks, the smurf won't stop firing his boltgun and muttering something about his spiritual liege's doctrine, sir.

Hmm. I see. What turn is it?

Turn two, sir.

Retreat.

That. Is. Hilarious. Well played sir.

I thought it ended weakly, but I'm glad someone appreciated it! Ha ha!

On topic (but only to derail)

... oh wait! This only affects models with CTs. So if say, and Inquisitor, joined a unit that unit would still get their CT. I misread it at first at thought the rule was if a unit with CT was joined by an IC with different or no CT that then negates the parent units CT, but... I was wrong.

Honestly I don't know why I'm still typing. I have literally nothing to contribute, I thought I did, but I didn't...

LOL!

 Kriswall wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Wouldn't "neither" chapter tactics imply you need BOTH models to have chapter tactics?

Correct. Per the definition in the new Space Marines Codex, if a model does not have the Chapter Tactics special rule, it is not considered to be a member of that Chapter.

By way of example, Techmarines have the Chapter Tactics special rule, but Servitors do not. From a strict RaW standpoint, there is no such thing as an Ultramarines Chapter Servitor. Presumably, all Servitors are created (or re-created?) equal. Techmarines, on the other hand, go through additional training based on their Chapter of origin. An Ultramarines Techmarine will get the exact same benefit from 'Ultramarines' Servitors as he would if he happened across some 'Salamanders' Servitors. This is because Servitors receive no Chapter specific additional training like a Marine might.

TL: DR; - From a strict RaW standpoint, models without the Chapter Tactics special rule are not defined as belonging to a particular Chapter. This includes non-Marine "people" like Servitors as well as most Artillery and Vehicle models.

If an Ultramarines Techmarine joined a unit of Servitors purchased with a Salamanders Techmarine AFTER the Salamander Techmarine was removed as a casualty, the Ultramarines Techmarine would retain his Chapter Tactics. From a RaW standpoint, there are no other models present from a different Chapter. The Servitors, are in essence, untrained pieces of equipment and are interchangeable between Chapters.

The codex does not define only CT units as coming from a chapter.

It says, when the the rules specifically refer to units by chapter, it is only referring to the units that have the ct rule.

The only issue i see is that, in one sentence it says all units from a chapter can benefit, but then specifies that the special rules only apply to models with CT

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Technically, you could include a BA or SW IC, since they don't have Chapter Tactics. There would be no interaction between these chapters and the Chapter Tactics ability, since they don't actually have Chapter Tactics. So, no, Codex Marines would not lose their Chapter Tactics ability.

It does not say both chapters need to have chapter tactics. So I'd say no you could not do that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Desubot wrote:
Wouldn't "neither" chapter tactics imply you need BOTH models to have chapter tactics?

I find implications to be very subjective

The new codex introduces a new term in the RAW. This rerm is 'drawm from'. Units with the chapter tactics rule must be drawn from a chapter. Units in the same detachment must be drawn from the same chapter. The only way you end up with a detachment of space marines not drawn from a chapter is if all units in the detachment lack the chapter tactics rule otherwise all the units will be drawn from a chapter.

For example. If I have an allied detachment with a tactical squad drawn from the raven guard and a land raider the land raider, while not having the chapter tactics rule, will be drawn from the raven guard chapter.

Only units with the chapter tactics rule get the benefit of the chapter they are drawn from. So the land raider would not get the benefits of being a raven guard unit.

Another example. If I have a land raider spearhead formation none of the models in the formation wil, from a RAW perspective, be drawn from a chapter.

Now, Boold Angel units do not have the CT rule so they also are, RAW perspective again, not drawn from a chapter. Its only when a unit contains models drawn from more then one chapter that you have a problem. RAW a BA IC in Raven Guard unit does not cause that problem.