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Spetulhu wrote:
The tyranids are stupid, wasteful and ultimately unfit to live. Even if the IoM can't stop them they will die in our galaxy. Something as silly as that couldn't have had any success against intelligent opponents.

Can you elaborate on this?

If everything is actually getting organised by competent minds, the Tyranids are fethed: the Deathwatch games established that they can be beaten in space without any extra cheese as they are very vulnerable when feeding and traveling between planets (awakning them there is terrible for them - unable to hibernate or feed on biomass or sufficient sunlight/atmosphere, they slowly starve if the IoM can simply let the battle last long enough).

On land, the Cult Mechanicus codex establishes that they can be beaten simply by setting the entire atmosphere on fire after they begin feeding (but the recordkeepers lost the file in a typical display of insanity).

: the Deathwatch games established that they can be beaten in space without any extra cheese as they are very vulnerable when feeding and traveling between planets

Not according to BFG rules and background they dont - they are lethal at mid-close range and once an enemy ship is entangled its like having a whole SM Legion board you in terms of ferocity.

Scale shot

The tyranids are stupid, wasteful and ultimately unfit to live. Even if the IoM can't stop them they will die in our galaxy. Something as silly as that couldn't have had any success against intelligent opponents.

How so?

The Tyranid strategy since invading the 40k universe has been to fly their fleets straight towards the largest lightbulb.


On a grand scale the entire Nid faction is just a big, fat moth. The Imperium, without any distractions, would be able to destroy a nearly unlimited number of tyranids.

Not according to BFG rules and background they dont - they are lethal at mid-close range and once an enemy ship is entangled its like having a whole SM Legion board you in terms of ferocity

The key words in your argument are mid-close range (really just close range), which means Imperial fleets can happily pulverize all your capital ships (read; ability to continue travel towards food).


On a personal level I must admit to bias against the Nids because I think their "we are a species of unlimited perfect organisms, oh wait, we just evolved to be more perfect and automatically beat whatever we evolved against in the last five minutes" is an assault on my brain's ability to function.

So, to sum up this entire thread; the imperium wins as long as you can neutralize Tyranid fleets before they get in close range. After that, it is pretty much a given that they have the upper hand?

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
So, to sum up this entire thread; the imperium wins as long as you can neutralize Tyranid fleets before they get in close range. After that, it is pretty much a given that they have the upper hand?

Unless those fleets are consisted of space marines and or storm troopers/admech.

Regular imperial navy ships however, will usually have a bad day.

Man, people assuming the IoM would just win outright are really overlooking some incredibly important points. First, the Tyranids act as a single entity if they are all assembled together. Second, IoM doesn't exactly have the most efficient and stable system of transportation. They are a lumbering giant even in the best case scenarios. Third, Tyranids evolve constantly as the war progresses.

Of course, these types of discussions are always a bit silly. The fluff is always full of hyperbole. The IoM is struggling because it is constantly under attack. True. The Tyranids haven't exterminated the galaxy because they are scattered and haven't brought their full numbers to bear. True. The Orks would be an impossibly powerful killing machine protected by the greatest psychic field as the collective psyker abilities of the orks when multiplied to their fullest extent would probably just tear a new Eye of Terror in reality and birth Gork or possibly Mork. True. The Necrons, should they ever awake simultaneously and with full mental capacities, would eradicate all that stood in their way. True. One day demons will just the whole universe in an orgy of maniacal slaughter. Etc. Etc.

The whole premise of the 40k universe is that it is far, FAR from a perfect situation for any of the super factions. Hence, the universe is constantly on the verge of destruction but god only knows who 'wins'. Which, of course, is why we all love it so much.

 Grumblewartz wrote:
Man, people assuming the IoM would just win outright are really overlooking some incredibly important points. First, the Tyranids act as a single entity if they are all assembled together. Second, IoM doesn't exactly have the most efficient and stable system of transportation. They are a lumbering giant even in the best case scenarios. Third, Tyranids evolve constantly as the war progresses.

Of course, these types of discussions are always a bit silly. The fluff is always full of hyperbole. The IoM is struggling because it is constantly under attack. True. The Tyranids haven't exterminated the galaxy because they are scattered and haven't brought their full numbers to bear. True. The Orks would be an impossibly powerful killing machine protected by the greatest psychic field as the collective psyker abilities of the orks when multiplied to their fullest extent would probably just tear a new Eye of Terror in reality and birth Gork or possibly Mork. True. The Necrons, should they ever awake simultaneously and with full mental capacities, would eradicate all that stood in their way. True. One day demons will just the whole universe in an orgy of maniacal slaughter. Etc. Etc.

The whole premise of the 40k universe is that it is far, FAR from a perfect situation for any of the super factions. Hence, the universe is constantly on the verge of destruction but god only knows who 'wins'. Which, of course, is why we all love it so much.

The Tyranids do not function as a single organism, Hive Fleets act as separate entities and have IIRC even come to blows before, they don't play well together. Rather the bigger and meaner fleet consumes the lesser in a pitched fight before moving on.

And no, the main ailments of the Imperium is Chaos. Chaos strains the warp and slows their transportation, it messes with their communication, and it demands constant and eternal warfare around the Eye of Terror. As in this scenario, where Chaos just goes up in a cloud of smoke, nothing is holding back consistent FTL, consistent and reliable FTL comms, and frees up massive garrison forces and fleets. Being able to focus exclusively on the Tyranid threat frees up the Imperium completely, allowing them construct fleets in months, marshal forces with greater efficiency, and start tossing massive flotillas at the 'Nids while scrounging for STC's without any worry of molestation by other enemies- especially Chaos.

Without distractions like Chaos, Tau and orks to worry them, IOM has got this well covered.

Even if the Tyranids win the first few battles, IOM has got the advantage in manpower, raw firepower and fleet size and strength.

With specialized bastions like the Rock and the Phalanx star fort (White Scars), not being utilized against chaos, IOM forces could wipe out tyranid fleets.

Deathwing and all the other space hulk games reveal that IOM would probably dominate chewing out genestealers before they land on the majority of planets.

Finally, Tyranids have never had the majority of IOM attention on them before, it's always been just a fleeting glimpse of their power.

Also. Tigarus and his link to the hive mind could end up basically second guessing most of the tyranids movement,. exterminus a few of the planets in their path, and bingo....tyranids are weak, and you board their ships and kill them whilst they are hibernating/take out the ship.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Grumblewartz wrote:
Man, people assuming the IoM would just win outright are really overlooking some incredibly important points. First, the Tyranids act as a single entity if they are all assembled together. Second, IoM doesn't exactly have the most efficient and stable system of transportation. They are a lumbering giant even in the best case scenarios. Third, Tyranids evolve constantly as the war progresses.

Of course, these types of discussions are always a bit silly. The fluff is always full of hyperbole. The IoM is struggling because it is constantly under attack. True. The Tyranids haven't exterminated the galaxy because they are scattered and haven't brought their full numbers to bear. True. The Orks would be an impossibly powerful killing machine protected by the greatest psychic field as the collective psyker abilities of the orks when multiplied to their fullest extent would probably just tear a new Eye of Terror in reality and birth Gork or possibly Mork. True. The Necrons, should they ever awake simultaneously and with full mental capacities, would eradicate all that stood in their way. True. One day demons will just the whole universe in an orgy of maniacal slaughter. Etc. Etc.

The whole premise of the 40k universe is that it is far, FAR from a perfect situation for any of the super factions. Hence, the universe is constantly on the verge of destruction but god only knows who 'wins'. Which, of course, is why we all love it so much.

The Tyranids do not function as a single organism, Hive Fleets act as separate entities and have IIRC even come to blows before, they don't play well together. Rather the bigger and meaner fleet consumes the lesser in a pitched fight before moving on.

And no, the main ailments of the Imperium is Chaos. Chaos strains the warp and slows their transportation, it messes with their communication, and it demands constant and eternal warfare around the Eye of Terror. As in this scenario, where Chaos just goes up in a cloud of smoke, nothing is holding back consistent FTL, consistent and reliable FTL comms, and frees up massive garrison forces and fleets. Being able to focus exclusively on the Tyranid threat frees up the Imperium completely, allowing them construct fleets in months, marshal forces with greater efficiency, and start tossing massive flotillas at the 'Nids while scrounging for STC's without any worry of molestation by other enemies- especially Chaos.

So the Tyranids are going to be at each other's throats but the IoM are utterly at peace? Seems like you are overlooking the prompt. In a perfect scenario where it is just purely all of IoM vs all of Tyranids (i.e. no internal strife) yes, the Tyranids would be able to communicate instantly and operate like a single swarm. The Hive Minds are greatest living psykers in the galaxy. Additionally, not every human can fight, nor has the will to fight, but absolutely every tyranid will die without a seconds hesitation.

I'm not saying the Tyranids win, but such a war would be a conflict of attrition that would last thousands of years.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Doctadeth wrote:
Finally, Tyranids have never had the majority of IOM attention on them before, it's always been just a fleeting glimpse of their power.

Also. Tigarus and his link to the hive mind could end up basically second guessing most of the tyranids movement,. exterminus a few of the planets in their path, and bingo....tyranids are weak, and you board their ships and kill them whilst they are hibernating/take out the ship.

And the IoM has never had all the attention of the Tyranids on them, just like the IoM has never had the full attention of all the Orks in the galaxy. Exterminatus is not a viable tactic. You can't just destroy every planet that Tyranids land on - it would entail destroying most of the galaxy. Again, the Tyrands vastly outnumber IoM.

Tigarius mind would explode if the Tyranid hive minds focused on it. He is not a god, lets not exaggerate - ok, I can't even finish that because all of 40k fluff is hyperbole, haha.

 Grumblewartz wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Grumblewartz wrote:
Man, people assuming the IoM would just win outright are really overlooking some incredibly important points. First, the Tyranids act as a single entity if they are all assembled together. Second, IoM doesn't exactly have the most efficient and stable system of transportation. They are a lumbering giant even in the best case scenarios. Third, Tyranids evolve constantly as the war progresses.

Of course, these types of discussions are always a bit silly. The fluff is always full of hyperbole. The IoM is struggling because it is constantly under attack. True. The Tyranids haven't exterminated the galaxy because they are scattered and haven't brought their full numbers to bear. True. The Orks would be an impossibly powerful killing machine protected by the greatest psychic field as the collective psyker abilities of the orks when multiplied to their fullest extent would probably just tear a new Eye of Terror in reality and birth Gork or possibly Mork. True. The Necrons, should they ever awake simultaneously and with full mental capacities, would eradicate all that stood in their way. True. One day demons will just the whole universe in an orgy of maniacal slaughter. Etc. Etc.

The whole premise of the 40k universe is that it is far, FAR from a perfect situation for any of the super factions. Hence, the universe is constantly on the verge of destruction but god only knows who 'wins'. Which, of course, is why we all love it so much.

The Tyranids do not function as a single organism, Hive Fleets act as separate entities and have IIRC even come to blows before, they don't play well together. Rather the bigger and meaner fleet consumes the lesser in a pitched fight before moving on.

And no, the main ailments of the Imperium is Chaos. Chaos strains the warp and slows their transportation, it messes with their communication, and it demands constant and eternal warfare around the Eye of Terror. As in this scenario, where Chaos just goes up in a cloud of smoke, nothing is holding back consistent FTL, consistent and reliable FTL comms, and frees up massive garrison forces and fleets. Being able to focus exclusively on the Tyranid threat frees up the Imperium completely, allowing them construct fleets in months, marshal forces with greater efficiency, and start tossing massive flotillas at the 'Nids while scrounging for STC's without any worry of molestation by other enemies- especially Chaos.

So the Tyranids are going to be at each other's throats but the IoM are utterly at peace? Seems like you are overlooking the prompt. In a perfect scenario where it is just purely all of IoM vs all of Tyranids (i.e. no internal strife) yes, the Tyranids would be able to communicate instantly and operate like a single swarm. The Hive Minds are greatest living psykers in the galaxy. Additionally, not every human can fight, nor has the will to fight, but absolutely every tyranid will die without a seconds hesitation.

I'm not saying the Tyranids win, but such a war would be a conflict of attrition that would last thousands of years.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Doctadeth wrote:
Finally, Tyranids have never had the majority of IOM attention on them before, it's always been just a fleeting glimpse of their power.

Also. Tigarus and his link to the hive mind could end up basically second guessing most of the tyranids movement,. exterminus a few of the planets in their path, and bingo....tyranids are weak, and you board their ships and kill them whilst they are hibernating/take out the ship.

And the IoM has never had all the attention of the Tyranids on them, just like the IoM has never had the full attention of all the Orks in the galaxy. Exterminatus is not a viable tactic. You can't just destroy every planet that Tyranids land on - it would entail destroying most of the galaxy. Again, the Tyrands vastly outnumber IoM.

Tigarius mind would explode if the Tyranid hive minds focused on it. He is not a god, lets not exaggerate - ok, I can't even finish that because all of 40k fluff is hyperbole, haha.

And you don't seem to understand the level of psychic power humans can throw out. All Alpha Psykers are now going to be fully directed at the Tyranids. These are the guys that can puppet entire star systems and control billions of minds, annihilate fleets, or casually rip apart titans by wiggling their eyebrows. Now they no longer have to worry about Chaos corruption with daemons claiming their souls if they unleash their powers without full restraint. Which in turns means the chances of them getting a bolt to the head from an Inquisitor is reduced.

Then there's other aces the Imperium has up its sleeves. Y'know the Phalanx? According to the Codices/Rulebook, the Imperium can still build mini-me versions of the star fort that are both fully mobile and the size of an entire continent or larger. This is then coupled with the unrestrained industry of the Admch, which can make flagships in a matter of months- let alone far smaller things such as Titans or escorts.

But the real killer is Alpha Psykers. If the Imperium could rally a single, stable, Super Saiyan-esque psyker similar to Dak'ir when empowered by the geneseed of Salamanders from the Horus Heresy, each world they were garrisoned on would be effectively immune to by any Tyranid Hive Fleet attack.

My friend, I believe you have missed my point. I am not denying anything about the IoM's capabilities, what I am pointing out is that the scale of the conflict is beyond anything imaginable. It has been a well established premise that the Hive Mind are the most powerful psychic forces in the galaxy - hence, their ability to control trillions of creatures. The shadow in the warp, as has been explained in numerous instances, clogs out the vast majority of human psykers. Now, how powerful would mankind be with the emperor's mind unfettered by combating Chaos? Who knows.

My point from the beginning is that the anecdotal evidence for IoM vs Tyranids that has been available is just glimpses of both sides' veritably innumerable military strength. Just like it has always since the beginning of the 40k universe an accepted notion that should all the Orks ever unite, mankind would be doomed, it is essentially the same for all the major powers. Therefore, we can really only conclude that if 2 of the galactic powers were completely unfettered by any sort of internal or external division, it would be a titanic conflict of quite literally unimaginable size and with a completely unpredictable consequence. The only thing that we could reasonably deduce is that the galaxy would be ripped apart, it would be Pyrrhic victory for whomever was the last standing.

Shouldn't the Shadow in the Warp mess with these Alpha Level psykers?

Further more, if the Tyranids suffer a crippling loss to some guy waving his hands and smashing them with Warp energy then it won't be long until some sort of anti-psyker weapon turns up (the Maleceptor is already the first step on the way to that, and a trio of those completely punk Mephiston, who is lauded as "one of the most powerful psykers in the galaxy" - it's not even a struggle for them, they just crush him).

Xyptc wrote:
Shouldn't the Shadow in the Warp mess with these Alpha Level psykers?

Further more, if the Tyranids suffer a crippling loss to some guy waving his hands and smashing them with Warp energy then it won't be long until some sort of anti-psyker weapon turns up (the Maleceptor is already the first step on the way to that, and a trio of those completely punk Mephiston, who is lauded as "one of the most powerful psykers in the galaxy" - it's not even a struggle for them, they just crush him).

You are greatly underestimating an alpha level psyker.


Mephiston, tigurius, these guys are beta level. Top notch beta, but beta, then again you can argue they are one step below even that. Here is a refrence on psyker level.


http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/The_Assignment

Alpha level psykers.... these guys can potentially exterminatus planets with their mind. They can literally pulp the brains of an entire ork waaaagh.

They are few, excptionally rare, (like, rarer than nids beating marines in fluff of imperium books)

Empy is aplha+, look at what he can do.


Also, where is this story about 3 malcepters punking .mephy?
This intrests me.

Lets see, 2 hive fleets were splintered by both Eldar and Space Marine forces.

Heck, Behemoth was taken down by a battlefleet and the ultramarines by themselves. If ONE single hive fleet was defeated by a chapter with support, imagine what the full might of all the space marines could do.

Then you have the Ordinance mechanicum, the Knight homeworlds (And how many Knights actually have experience vs nids). You don't need to exterminus all of the planets in the tyranids area, just the ones that are hive nest grounds. Then you take on the ships.

Then you have untouchables. If enough untouchables gathered, the effect could concievably destroy the hive mind. Raevenor mentions that they amplify each other....that would just shred any hive fleets.

Remember guys, the premise of this thread presumes each faction is united (Huge boost for Imperium/not a whole lot of change for the nids) and specifically cuts off any potential inter-universe spill-over for the Tyranids.

Both of those facts tilt favor towards IoM.

EDIT: Forgot the "no other enemies" clause. Even more huge for the Imperium, which has a vast amount of territory to protect, only so-so for the nids (reduces biodiversity even. possible to argue for a net negative if we assume they would conquer and subsume these other factions).

Xyptc wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:
The tyranids are stupid, wasteful and ultimately unfit to live.

Can you elaborate on this?

They consume everything behind them in their hunger, then pick a direction to a new target. It's like the mongols before they realized that unburnt cities and living taxpayers was better in the long run than killing everyone and taking their stuff. You can only do that once, you see. Every journey to a new target is a deathmarch they must succeed in or die. And so-called living ships and weapons is one of the most inefficient things you can come up with, especially the warrior critters that can't eat but instead run on until their internal energy reserves are depleted. Not to mention the fixed weapons. If a human heavy weapons trooper dies his squadmates can pick up his gun, if the tyranids lose the heavy dakkafex they'll have to bring a whole new one. It's incredibly inefficient. Couple that with opponents that can actually see your weaknesses and you're screwed.

 raiden wrote:

Xyptc wrote:
Shouldn't the Shadow in the Warp mess with these Alpha Level psykers?

Further more, if the Tyranids suffer a crippling loss to some guy waving his hands and smashing them with Warp energy then it won't be long until some sort of anti-psyker weapon turns up (the Maleceptor is already the first step on the way to that, and a trio of those completely punk Mephiston, who is lauded as "one of the most powerful psykers in the galaxy" - it's not even a struggle for them, they just crush him).

You are greatly underestimating an alpha level psyker.


Mephiston, tigurius, these guys are beta level. Top notch beta, but beta, then again you can argue they are one step below even that. Here is a refrence on psyker level.


http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/The_Assignment

Alpha level psykers.... these guys can potentially exterminatus planets with their mind. They can literally pulp the brains of an entire ork waaaagh.

They are few, excptionally rare, (like, rarer than nids beating marines in fluff of imperium books)

Empy is aplha+, look at what he can do.


Also, where is this story about 3 malcepters punking .mephy?
This intrests me.

Shield of Baal: Deathstorm campaign book. Mephiston overpowers a few Zoanthropes, then the Maleceptor trio turn on him and he collapses into a psychic coma, completely and utterly defeated.

There's also a short novella that came out around the same time in which a swarm releases a Maleceptor to try and kill Tigurius, and his powers are no match for it either. He suddenly finds himself with a portion of the Emperor's own psychic might and manages to kill it, but without a little divine intervention he too would have fallen to the latest anti-psyker weapon beast.

 Doctadeth wrote:
Lets see, 2 hive fleets were splintered by both Eldar and Space Marine forces.

Heck, Behemoth was taken down by a battlefleet and the ultramarines by themselves. If ONE single hive fleet was defeated by a chapter with support, imagine what the full might of all the space marines could do.

Then you have the Ordinance mechanicum, the Knight homeworlds (And how many Knights actually have experience vs nids). You don't need to exterminus all of the planets in the tyranids area, just the ones that are hive nest grounds. Then you take on the ships.

Then you have untouchables. If enough untouchables gathered, the effect could concievably destroy the hive mind. Raevenor mentions that they amplify each other....that would just shred any hive fleets.

The scale of each fleet has been an order of magnitude greater than the last. The single tendril of Leviathan that smashes the Blood Angels shield worlds in the Shield of Baal campaign is significantly larger than Behemoth was. Said system is reinforced by the majority of the Blood Angels chapter, including their First Company, all of their greatest heroes and the Sanguinor. They don't win. The Necrons even explode the local gas giant with stellar energy to try and exterminatus the Hive Fleet, and the Necrons fail to inflict crippling damage on the fleet, which drains what's left of the system and then moves on. Hive Fleet Leviathan is so huge and intelligent that engagements with the previous fleets are giving the Imperium a false sense of security.

The untouchables comment is just supposition too; it's never been tested in the field.

Spetulhu wrote:


They consume everything behind them in their hunger, then pick a direction to a new target. It's like the mongols before they realized that unburnt cities and living taxpayers was better in the long run than killing everyone and taking their stuff. You can only do that once, you see. Every journey to a new target is a deathmarch they must succeed in or die. And so-called living ships and weapons is one of the most inefficient things you can come up with, especially the warrior critters that can't eat but instead run on until their internal energy reserves are depleted. Not to mention the fixed weapons. If a human heavy weapons trooper dies his squadmates can pick up his gun, if the tyranids lose the heavy dakkafex they'll have to bring a whole new one. It's incredibly inefficient. Couple that with opponents that can actually see your weaknesses and you're screwed.

Amen brother. Tyranid folk will say there's no loss as all biomatter is subsumed into the fleet after fighting and eating is over. That's bullcrap. Energy is being expended with each alteration/recreation there is. Current Nid practices are woefully inefficient, which leads me to believe their previous galaxies were pushovers compared to 40k (the average fictional, and real, universe can't compete with 40k).

 Scrabb wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:


They consume everything behind them in their hunger, then pick a direction to a new target. It's like the mongols before they realized that unburnt cities and living taxpayers was better in the long run than killing everyone and taking their stuff. You can only do that once, you see. Every journey to a new target is a deathmarch they must succeed in or die. And so-called living ships and weapons is one of the most inefficient things you can come up with, especially the warrior critters that can't eat but instead run on until their internal energy reserves are depleted. Not to mention the fixed weapons. If a human heavy weapons trooper dies his squadmates can pick up his gun, if the tyranids lose the heavy dakkafex they'll have to bring a whole new one. It's incredibly inefficient. Couple that with opponents that can actually see your weaknesses and you're screwed.

Amen brother. Tyranid folk will say there's no loss as all biomatter is subsumed into the fleet after fighting and eating is over. That's bullcrap. Energy is being expended with each alteration/recreation there is. Current Nid practices are woefully inefficient, which leads me to believe their previous galaxies were pushovers compared to 40k (the average fictional, and real, universe can't compete with 40k).

Except that the Tyranids eat far more than what they expend fighting. The sheer amount of material consumed makes their approach efficient. The Tyranids drink the oceans and the atmosphere and subtract enough material that there is a visible reduction of the planet's radius.

 Tyran wrote:

Except that the Tyranids eat far more than what they expend fighting. The sheer amount of material consumed makes their approach efficient. The Tyranids drink the oceans and the atmosphere and subtract enough material that there is a visible reduction of the planet's radius.

You misunderstand my point if you think that gobsmacking quantities of raw materials makes my objection go away.

However many quintillion tons of biomass the Tyranids have to work with, they would have much more if they did things differently.

If the Tyranids worked "realistically", they would throw a virus to the planet that would turn everything in bio goo ready for possessing. But then we wouldn't have a miniature game.

Hell, if the fluff was realistic in any way, there wouldn't be something as stupid as the Space Marines.

 Tyran wrote:
If the Tyranids worked "realistically", they would throw a virus to the planet that would turn everything in bio goo ready for possessing. But then we wouldn't have a miniature game.

Hell, if the fluff was realistic in any way, there wouldn't be something as stupid as the Space Marines.

True. But in my mind there's a difference between "they're uber and have rocket launcher machine guns" and "they use well understood real world physics incorrectly." One is quite clearly not taking itself too seriously/obviously a product of the fictional world. The other makes a real thing fake.


Of course, to each their own.

"What the Imperium cannot know is that, should the Necrons ever fully wake and unite,
they would face a foe as numerous as themselves."

Page 23 Necron Codex

Having Encountered the Tyranids in the outer Void the Silent King returns to the Galaxy.

Page 89 Necron Codex

It is the Silent King's wish that the younger races' flawed attempts to destroy the Tyranid do not simply feed the Hive Fleets beyond the point where even a united Necron People have any hope of Victory

Codex Necron 5th Ed page 26

He said, “They are the rising storm, and you must become the shield”.

Last page of Words of the Silent King (to dante)

---
Right now i would say the IoM without outside Help doesn't win (Shadow of the Warp => Human Psykers are Useless. I seem to recall that only the BA or the UM Libby survived sending his mind into the Shadow of the Warp. When tyranids win a planete they can recup their loss when feeding of everything that is dead. They Evolve in order to adapt (The crossing of the Castelan Belt for example "Shield of Baal Exterminatus"

The best way to fight the nids is to not fight them if possible. They more or less drift in a set path so it doesn't take long for them to determine a pattern then it's just a matter of sacrificing some planet to choke their resources then to fight the hive in space. Really if they weren't so busy they could take the lost dead planets and sort of make a blockade along key points of the eastern fringe, keep it so the Tau empire are the first living worlds they should come across.

But nope have to fight them on the surface with chainswords.

 n0t_u wrote:
The best way to fight the nids is to not fight them if possible. They more or less drift in a set path so it doesn't take long for them to determine a pattern then it's just a matter of sacrificing some planet to choke their resources then to fight the hive in space. Really if they weren't so busy they could take the lost dead planets and sort of make a blockade along key points of the eastern fringe, keep it so the Tau empire are the first living worlds they should come across.

But nope have to fight them on the surface with chainswords.

Also when Kryptman tried it, everyone else on the IoM accused him of treason, in part because it was the worst case of human self-genocide since the age of Apostasy.

sgc8647 wrote:
"What the Imperium cannot know is that, should the Necrons ever fully wake and unite,
they would face a foe as numerous as themselves."

Page 23 Necron Codex

Having Encountered the Tyranids in the outer Void the Silent King returns to the Galaxy.

Page 89 Necron Codex

It is the Silent King's wish that the younger races' flawed attempts to destroy the Tyranid do not simply feed the Hive Fleets beyond the point where even a united Necron People have any hope of Victory

Codex Necron 5th Ed page 26

He said, “They are the rising storm, and you must become the shield”.

Last page of Words of the Silent King (to dante)

---
Right now i would say the IoM without outside Help doesn't win (Shadow of the Warp => Human Psykers are Useless. I seem to recall that only the BA or the UM Libby survived sending his mind into the Shadow of the Warp. When tyranids win a planete they can recup their loss when feeding of everything that is dead. They Evolve in order to adapt (The crossing of the Castelan Belt for example "Shield of Baal Exterminatus"

*Ahem*

Remember guys, the premise of this thread presumes each faction is united (Huge boost for Imperium/not a whole lot of change for the nids) and specifically cuts off any potential inter-universe spill-over for the Tyranids.

Both of those facts tilt favor towards IoM.

EDIT: Forgot the "no other enemies" clause. Even more huge for the Imperium, which has a vast amount of territory to protect, only so-so for the nids (reduces biodiversity even. possible to argue for a net negative if we assume they would conquer and subsume these other factions).

Also, let's take a closer at part of your statement, shall we?

....When Tryanids win a planet....

And when they lose they're completely and utterly shattered. But continue...

...they can recoup their loss when feeding off everything that is dead...

Exterminatus. Done.


Seriously folks, all the Imperium has to do is monitor Nid fleet movement (easy) and pop the planets after the nids land. It is explicit tyranid fluff that long periods without feeding weakens them. Every planet they hit they will lose biomass and cannot do anything about it. IoM can do this for thousands of systems.

 Scrabb wrote:


Exterminatus. Done.


Seriously folks, all the Imperium has to do is monitor Nid fleet movement (easy) and pop the planets after the nids land. It is explicit tyranid fluff that long periods without feeding weakens them. Every planet they hit they will lose biomass and cannot do anything about it. IoM can do this for thousands of systems.

1) Exterminatus isn't "easy" to pull off. You've got to get in range, you've got to make sure it's effective, you've got to make sure you get enough Tyranids to make it worthwhile. As for "monitoring the Tyranid fleet movements being easy"... it's explicitly stated that one of the things that makes the Tyranid advance so hard to handle is because it is ridiculously hard to determine where they are going. Sure, once they reach a system you usually have a chance of getting your act together as they often move very slowly*, but as the Shadow in the Warp crashes communication actually telling each other where the ships are becomes incredibly difficult. You can get a rough idea where they are because you find dead worlds/systems, but where they actually appear next is often a complete surprise. Unless you bait them in somehow.

*Furthermore, recent Tyranid fluff has Tyranid Hive Fleets millions strong crossing systems in a matter of days, implying that they are either arriving a lot closer to planets than they used to, or they are actually faster than a lot of sources give them credit for.

2) Tactics don't usually work against a Tyranid fleet for long. They adapt their strategies on a grand scale. If a large number of heavy losses are sustained while preparing to feed (lots of successful exterminatus incidents) who's to say that they won't modify their feeding style by either not commiting more than they have to or (worse) committing such ridiculous numbers that entire systems are wiped clean in less than a week, giving the Imperium no time to plan an exterminatus at all. In the Shield of Baal campaign, the Leviathan tendril crushes a rock-hard system in three days, and if the Blood Angels chapter (that's almost their entire chapter, by the way, plus assorted allies) had been just a few days later the consumption phase would have been over and it would have been far too late for any exterminatus attempt at all.

Note: Tyranids were my second choice of army to play in game. I just don't think their fluff justifies beating the big dogs in 40k. On to my reply, good sir.


In the scale of "all of the IoM is fighting the tyranids" it is excessively 'easy' for Iom to do an exterminatus. Easy being a very relative term.


The suggested change in Nid tactics is to send in more at a time to get fethed? Or, alternatively, to know exactly how much force they need to win before the fact. mhm...... half the reason why tyranids win any battle is by using more 'biomass' in soldiers than the entirety of the planet's population.


Days to cross a system is the fastest tyranids are recorded at? I didn't know that the tyranids were that slow. Seriously, that is a huge liability.


Strategy. Strategy is different than tactics The nids are travelling towards terra. period. Nothing is going to change that.

 Scrabb wrote:
Note: Tyranids were my second choice of army to play in game. I just don't think their fluff justifies beating the big dogs in 40k. On to my reply, good sir.


In the scale of "all of the IoM is fighting the tyranids" it is excessively 'easy' for Iom to do an exterminatus. Easy being a very relative term.


The suggested change in Nid tactics is to send in more at a time to get fethed? Or, alternatively, to know exactly how much force they need to win before the fact. mhm...... half the reason why tyranids win any battle is by using more 'biomass' in soldiers than the entirety of the planet's population.


Days to cross a system is the fastest tyranids are recorded at? I didn't know that the tyranids were that slow. Seriously, that is a huge liability.


Strategy. Strategy is different than tactics The nids are travelling towards terra. period. Nothing is going to change that.

The Tyranids eat far more than what they expend fighting.

The Tyranid FTL doesn't works inside a star system.

Terra is a big "dinner here" sign, and not all Tyranid fleets travel towards Terra.