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I actually play it that he cannot start off with the squad. Thus I usually deploy the unit behind or near BLOS terrain. I then infiltrate Cypher behind BLOS terrain as well (by himself). Then on my Turn 1, they join together.

In the case that there isn't BLOS terrain in my deployment zone, then I usually try to deploy them in ruins. Clump up my centurions and then infiltrate Cypher behind them (and in ruins as well). Centurions are big enough that if you clump them together, you can hide an infantry model behind them.

In the worst-case scenario - against a strong alpha-strike army like drop pods, Master of Ambush flyrant-spam going 1st, scouting bikes, etc. - then I reserve Cypher. I've only had to do this once in all the games that I've played, which has been over 20+ games.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 The Shrike wrote:

Jim plays mostly ITC packet on the West Coast. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they ruled that inviltrate can confer.....or are you just using him for Shrouded?

It used to, but the ITC has since taken that "rules change" out of their FAQ. He cannot confer Shrouded to the unit until he joins it on Turn 1.

 jy2 wrote:
I actually play it that he cannot start off with the squad. Thus I usually deploy the unit behind or near BLOS terrain. I then infiltrate Cypher behind BLOS terrain as well (by himself). Then on my Turn 1, they join together.

In the case that there isn't BLOS terrain in my deployment zone, then I usually try to deploy them in ruins. Clump up my centurions and then infiltrate Cypher behind them (and in ruins as well). Centurions are big enough that if you clump them together, you can hide an infantry model behind them.

In the worst-case scenario - against a strong alpha-strike army like drop pods, Master of Ambush flyrant-spam going 1st, scouting bikes, etc. - then I reserve Cypher. I've only had to do this once in all the games that I've played, which has been over 20+ games.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 The Shrike wrote:

Jim plays mostly ITC packet on the West Coast. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they ruled that inviltrate can confer.....or are you just using him for Shrouded?

It used to, but the ITC has since taken that "rules change" out of their FAQ. He cannot confer Shrouded to the unit until he joins it on Turn 1.

That makes sense. I might try that sometime, as I have a cypher model that isn't doing anything haha.

This is the deathstar list I started running. It's not as crazy as some of the ones posted, but it has a good MSU element to it as well.

DA CAD (IH)
Interrogator Chaplain on bike

Full RWCS w/ 1 RWGL, RW banner, Apothecary

2x5 bolter scouts

2 full RW bike units w/ 2x grav guns, combi-grav, meltabombs, and MM attack bike

Darkshroud

SM Allied Detachment
CM on bike w/ auspex, shield eternal, TH, AA

5man scouts

TFC

Librarius Conclave (IH)
3x ML2 Libbys on bikes


Libbies endurance and/or invis. With the ITC nerf to both invis and 2+ rerollables I've found FNP to be a good work around (waiting for that to get FAQ'd though). Even with the nerf, the darkshroud is pretty great as it negates overwatch as well. With hatred, the bikestar is pretty brutal even against invis'd targets. The RW bikes can break apart into 3 units each, giving me strong scoring/denial for maelstrom. Still struggles against battle company, but as I get better with the list and continue to optimize it I'm sure I'll do better against them.

I run a cent star as well and have had great success with it locally in ITC style tournys. Most recently I played a dual centstar list that wrecked some serious face! Draigo and tiggy for the main star and then the Libby conclave and two gk Libby's to roll for the same invis/gate combo for the second centstar. I run a drop pod and the second squad at three cents just in case I miss the powers and then kamikaze the mini cent squad like they're sternguard. Only had to do that one game out of 7 games (1 in a 3 round tourny and none in 4 practice games) so that's pretty great odds imo to have two fully functioning centstars at once.
I'm going back to a single star for an event tomorrow based on the local meta but enjoy both variants.
Im playing this single cent list tomorrow:

Allied force: Ultramarines
1 tiggy
5 bolter scouts
1 stormtalon
5 centurions - all grav, one missile, Sergeant has missile and scope

Nemesis strike force: grey Knights
1 lvl 3 Libby with hammer
1 lvl 3 Libby with stave
5 strike squad
2 dreadknights - both teleporter, psyvannon, incinerator, sword
1 draigo

what about the daemon triple star, its the hound star, screamer star, and the plague drone star, supported by fateweaver, pretty OP. Although I think that might be the just a list and not a single deathstar.

Otherwise I can't really help, don't know/care much about the super competitive deathstar scene, I don't play with or against those lists.

-Mikey

 pretre wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
White Scars with Space Wolves plus the conclave is the best. Scars and Librarians are on bikes - Space Wolves are on Thunderwolves.

I'm experimenting with a version of this for an event next month:

CotGW:
Wolf Lord with Fist/SS on TWM
Iron Priest on TWM with 4 Cyberwolves
Iron Priest on TWM with 4 Cyberwolves
5 TWC with WC/SS, SS/CCW x2, BP/CCW, PF/BP

Grimnar's War Council:
Ulrik
Njal
RP with ML2, Bike and Staff
Iron Priest on TWM with 4 Cyberwolves

Librarius:
Librarian with Bike, ML2 and Axe
Librarian with Bike, ML2 and Axe
Librarian with Bike, ML2 and Sword
Librarian with Bike, ML2 and Staff

1850

Grimnar's for first turn and more warp charge. Librarius for 2+ Invis and perhaps 2+ Sanctic. The only downside is the two walking characters that have to trail behind. The crazy buffs on that unit are pretty funny though. Also, majority 4+ for Grav.

Any troops to do the scoring?

I'd hate to go up against douche-scythe webdar with that list.

Nah, it's just one big unit. It isn't particularly competitive since there is no scoring, but it should be pretty hilarious as a deathstar. D Scythe will be annoying since I lose FNP (or is that not a thing with the ITC?). My casting pattern would be Invis, Endurance, Forewarning, Sanctuary, Prescience and then whatever is left...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It is pure deathstar which fits the thread pretty well.

StrengthD doesnt ignore fnp anymore

 The Shrike wrote:
MSU is a bigger problem for Centstar methinks. Just can't kill enough units. I think more disparate grav spam via podded cents or kataphron destroyers is optimal.

No, it has split fire and easy access to witchfire powers, it can reliably kill 2 small units a turn. It'll easily make its points back shooting 5-man tactical squads over 5 turns.

 DarkLink wrote:

 The Shrike wrote:
MSU is a bigger problem for Centstar methinks. Just can't kill enough units. I think more disparate grav spam via podded cents or kataphron destroyers is optimal.

No, it has split fire and easy access to witchfire powers, it can reliably kill 2 small units a turn. It'll easily make its points back shooting 5-man tactical squads over 5 turns.

Making points back and winning the game are two different things. Gladius at 1850 is 28-30 units. So even if the game goes 6 turns on average; that's 12 dead units. A full GK+SM+INQ Centstar leaves little room for offensive support. Most of the lists I see just have some mobile scoring added on, leaving the offense to the CentStar.

I'm not saying it can't win, far from it, I'm cheering for Jy2 when he takes his to NOVA; and a great general can definitely make it work with excellent deployment, execution and target priority. Just sayin', MSU is tough for shooting deathstars.

If DraigoStar starts slinging around Psychic Shriek it could destroy three or more enemy units a turn optimally. Shriek one, split to potentially kill two more and then possibly multi assault.

Making points back matters a lot in a game where you're playing at a points deficit and you need to take enemy models off the table. You'll probably have a pair of Dreadknights with this army as well, and they'll walk through 5-man tactical squads in razorbacks like nothing else. You might not necessarily table them, but they won't have much of an army left to grab objectives by the end of the game.

Although extremely expensive has anyone seen the Council of Waaaagh! from W!G supplement used? Might this formation/unit be a possible deathstar?
It takes Ghazzy, Dok Grot, Big Mek, 2 Warbosses and a unit of Nobz one of which has to carry a Waaaaagh! Banner.
Special rules puts them together as one unit. The two Warbosses get an additional +1WS on top of the bonus gained from the banner. Ghazzy get's two extra warlord traits on top of what he already has in the codex.
If a full squad of Nobz is used this is 15 models that have a total of 35 wounds together. Aside from Ghazzy and Dok Grot, the rest have a whole bunch of options to equip themselves with. Given the right wargear does this group have potential to be a Deathstar?
I intend to make this Council of Waaagh! and I've decided to make my Big Mek represent Orkimedes. MA, PK, Killsaw, Tellyport Blasta, Supa Cybork Body and MFF. I haven't worked out the 2 Warbosses yet because this formation expensive enough that I might only use it in apocalypse games.
Aside from the Greentide I don't think there is any other bigger collection of wounds in a single unit that the Orks have...no wait Vulcha Skwad can get up to 95 wounds. But this puts the most amount of Ork weapon options behind a cushion of wounds. A common mentality of Ork players with our PK Nobz hiding in Boyz mobs.
All these models lay down lots of dice in both assault shooty weapons and melee. A redundant amount in melee from the looks of it...

Yeah it does ignore FNP. Check the Feel No Pain rules on page 164 I think, cannot be taken against Destroyer attacks. Plus they count as Str 10 which Instant Deaths T5 models anyway, and can't take FNP vs Instant Death either.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oops, that was supposed to quote where someone said Destroyer doesn't ignore FNP anymore.

For cypher I just deploy him in range of the unit during the infiltrate step so he joins them.

It says an IC can join a unit by deploying within 2 inches. So you can have an IC join a unit if they infiltrate but can not do it the other way around.

 Leth wrote:
For cypher I just deploy him in range of the unit during the infiltrate step so he joins them.

It says an IC can join a unit by deploying within 2 inches. So you can have an IC join a unit if they infiltrate but can not do it the other way around.

You don't join until the end of the Movement phase. As there is no Movement phase in the Deployment phase, you can't join after the end of the Movement phase on Turn 1.

Except if you read the IC section it says " an IC can begin the game joined to a unit by being deployed in unit coherency with it". It is when the IC is deployed that determines if it can be attached to a unit.

So the infiltrating IC is deployed after the unit. Infiltrating is still deploying. Place it within coherency of the unit, bamn cypher starts attached

Sounds legit - I like it.