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Or more likely, he didnt trust Guilliman, who in turn didnt trust Johnson. The mutual decision to make Sanguinius the Regent of Imperium Secundus was a matter of convenience for both parties.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
I firmly believe that had Horus won Johnson would have flocked to his banner and swore allegiance. I think they Dark Angels have always served their own goals first, and the Imperium second. But that it one of the things I like about them. Every story needs a character like them.
"Because the Wolves kill cleanly, and we do not. They also kill quickly, and we have never done that, either. They fight, they win, and they stalk back to their ships with their tails held high. If they were ever ordered to destroy another Legion, they would do it by hurling warrior against warrior, seeking to grind their enemies down with the admirable delusions of the 'noble savage'. If we were ever ordered to assault another Legion, we would virus bomb their recruitment worlds; slaughter their serfs and slaves; poison their gene-seed repositories and spend the next dozen decades watching them die slow, humiliating deaths. Night after night, raid after raid, we'd overwhelm stragglers from their fleets and bleach their skulls to hang from our armour, until none remained. But that isn't the quick execution the Emperor needs, is it? The Wolves go for the throat. We go for the eyes. Then the tongue. Then the hands. Then the feet. Then we skin the crippled remains, and offer it up as an example to any still bearing witness. The Wolves were warriors before they became soldiers. We were murderers first, last, and always!" —Jago Sevatarion
DR:80SGMB--I--Pw40k01#-D++++A+/fWD-R++T(T)DM+
Lord Blackscale wrote: I firmly believe that had Horus won Johnson would have flocked to his banner and swore allegiance. I think they Dark Angels have always served their own goals first, and the Imperium second. But that it one of the things I like about them. Every story needs a character like them.
I agree that characters like that can be a good plot point, but Jonson doesn't fit that type.
The Imperium would never allow an unaligned primarch to exist. The fact that he refuses to join his fathers empire is enough to brand him traitor, and he poses a severe threat to the imperium both militarily, socially and ideologically.
My $0.02, which since 1992 has rounded to nothing. Take with salt.
Elysian Drop Troops, Dark Angels, 30K
Mercenaries, Retribution
Ten Thunders, Neverborn
And that is why I called him a "closet traitor". The Dark Angels are known to be secretive. I personally believe that Luthur was the Loyalist, or at least thought he was. Johnson just waited to pick the winning side. If the Imperium knew this then, yes, they would destoy all of the Dark Angels. However, the First Legion has a habit of teamkilling those who stick their noses too far into their business.
"Because the Wolves kill cleanly, and we do not. They also kill quickly, and we have never done that, either. They fight, they win, and they stalk back to their ships with their tails held high. If they were ever ordered to destroy another Legion, they would do it by hurling warrior against warrior, seeking to grind their enemies down with the admirable delusions of the 'noble savage'. If we were ever ordered to assault another Legion, we would virus bomb their recruitment worlds; slaughter their serfs and slaves; poison their gene-seed repositories and spend the next dozen decades watching them die slow, humiliating deaths. Night after night, raid after raid, we'd overwhelm stragglers from their fleets and bleach their skulls to hang from our armour, until none remained. But that isn't the quick execution the Emperor needs, is it? The Wolves go for the throat. We go for the eyes. Then the tongue. Then the hands. Then the feet. Then we skin the crippled remains, and offer it up as an example to any still bearing witness. The Wolves were warriors before they became soldiers. We were murderers first, last, and always!" —Jago Sevatarion
DR:80SGMB--I--Pw40k01#-D++++A+/fWD-R++T(T)DM+
^What he said, I think El'Johnson was an opportunist and would have gone along with whoever had won. I dont think he gave the siege engines to Perturabo on Diamat by accident. I dont think it was an accident that he decided not to go to Isstvan either (for a guy who thouht it was important that he get his Legion to Terra he sure took his time doing it). The netotiations wih Konrad Cirze always struck me as being somewhat self serving on El'Johnsons part, etc. etc. etc. Plain and simple he basically handed the traitors the keys to the palace and then sat out the war playing games with the Night Lords.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
As far as head cannon goes, sure, but it's not really supported by the books anymore. Dark Angels and Jonson are firmly in the loyalist camp.
My $0.02, which since 1992 has rounded to nothing. Take with salt.
Elysian Drop Troops, Dark Angels, 30K
Mercenaries, Retribution
Ten Thunders, Neverborn
Except that its been implied within the Horus Heresy series on more than a few occasions. Guilliman is reluctant to offer The Lion leadership of Imperium Secundus because he is so secretive and manipulative, as well as he fact that he knows how the Lion feels about wanting to have been Warmaster. Night Haunter believes that he can convince the Lion to join Horus, and thus the two meet to discuss negotiations, an event that begins quite amicably and ends with a brawl once people start getting a bit overly sensitive. Then various less important characters of various alignments voice their distrust of El'Johnson and question his actions and loyalties. Theres also a relatively recent BL novel (by Graham McNeill I believe, cannot recall the title) in ehich a Fallen inder interrogation states that Luther was in fact a loyalist and the Lion was the traitor, and the Lion offed Luther and the DA that remained on Calaban in order to keep them quiet so the rest could quietly rejoin the Imperium. To say its unsupported by the narrative is a gross misunderstanding od the material. Granted, in reality I doubt he was/would have been a traitor and this is all simply an attempt by the authors to create uncertainty within the setting, as well as among the readership, and give us one more thing to debate about, but still.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
The problem with Luther being a Loyalist is that there's no way he would be capable of crippling the Lion if he had not been strengthened by the Ruinous Powers.
Gillian calls the Lion secretive, but on no point does he declare him to be manipulative. The closest he comes is referring to him as cunning in war. Guilliman also has a personal dislike of the Lion, and is envious of him. Furthermore, he does offer the Lion the Regency of Empire of Ultramar. The Lion refuses. Guilliman and all of Ultramar recognise him as loyal.
The Night Haunter does not believe that he can turn the Lion. The first words of the dialogue state that. The talk is never amicable, Curze constantly takes shots at the Lion.
The Lion believes he should have been Warmaster as the best tactician. The Primarchs all talk about how Horus was one of the most likeable, but they also query whether him being the Emperors favourite had an impact on the choice.
Most of the minor characters who voice their distrust of the Lion are all foot soldiers and low ranking officers. They express the same distrust of the Dark Angels, who's secrecy is a palpable thing, dating back to when they were the only Legion. This is their schtick, what they're known for, and people in the higher ranks don't let it effect their opinion of them.
Merir Astelan (the Fallen) was a high ranking officer publicly humiliated by the Lion by his redeployment to Caliban. He also was nowhere near the Lion during the Heresy, and as such has no idea what the hell was happening, fired on the Lion's fleet expressly against orders and why would he lie I wonder? Public enemy number 1, nah, course he's telling the truth. Furthermore, Graham McNeil made a statement where he said that Astelan was not intended to be believed. He was shocked so many people took him at face value.
Luther contemplated killing the Lion before the Heresy even began, and seceded Caliban from the Imperium, declaring them as antithetical to Calibans way of life. He also mortally wounded the Lion, as a mere human, and there is a scene where he is glowing with chaos runes.
Perturabo wasn't even a known Traitor at the time the siege engines were handed over. Lion is famously bad at reading people and their intentions, and the fact was everyone believed the Iron Warriors to be Loyal. That is also out of character.
The Lion actions speak volumes. He attacks the Night Lords for two years, nearly kills Curze, steals Warp Technology from the traitor Death Guard and has a hundred little quotes that call him loyal. "Loyalty is it's own reward", "None should rule, but my Father". The guy was literally too stuck up to serve anyone but the Emperor. They might not have liked him, but no one doubted his loyalty.
Originally, yeah, there was the idea that the Lion could have been a traitor. Then they decided to clean it up, years ago. There is no longer any reasonable background to him being a traitor. Once, but no more.
Sorry for the rant.
My $0.02, which since 1992 has rounded to nothing. Take with salt.
Elysian Drop Troops, Dark Angels, 30K
Mercenaries, Retribution
Ten Thunders, Neverborn
Lord Blackscale wrote: And that is why I called him a "closet traitor". The Dark Angels are known to be secretive. I personally believe that Luthur was the Loyalist, or at least thought he was. Johnson just waited to pick the winning side. If the Imperium knew this then, yes, they would destoy all of the Dark Angels. However, the First Legion has a habit of teamkilling those who stick their noses too far into their business.
People like you are starting to piss me off. READ FALLEN ANGELS AND DESCENT OF ANGELS. Every single Dark Angel swore an oath to never tell a lie, or else kill themselves. The Dark Angels Legion was based upon the Order's teachings, which were open and honest. The Lion's keeping secrets from the rest of the Legion was anathema to everything he had taught his sons.
To quote a fictional character... "Let's make this fun!"
Tactical_Spam wrote: There was a story in the SM omnibus where a single kroot killed 2-3 marines then ate their gene seed and became a Kroot-startes.
Lord Blackscale wrote: And that is why I called him a "closet traitor". The Dark Angels are known to be secretive. I personally believe that Luthur was the Loyalist, or at least thought he was. Johnson just waited to pick the winning side. If the Imperium knew this then, yes, they would destoy all of the Dark Angels. However, the First Legion has a habit of teamkilling those who stick their noses too far into their business.
People like you are starting to piss me off. READ FALLEN ANGELS AND DESCENT OF ANGELS. Every single Dark Angel swore an oath to never tell a lie, or else kill themselves. The Dark Angels Legion was based upon the Order's teachings, which were open and honest. The Lion's keeping secrets from the rest of the Legion was anathema to everything he had taught his sons.
Being able to only speak the truth does not preclude manipulation, withholding of information, and being intentionally misleading.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/08 18:13:22
Lord Blackscale wrote: And that is why I called him a "closet traitor". The Dark Angels are known to be secretive. I personally believe that Luthur was the Loyalist, or at least thought he was. Johnson just waited to pick the winning side. If the Imperium knew this then, yes, they would destoy all of the Dark Angels. However, the First Legion has a habit of teamkilling those who stick their noses too far into their business.
People like you are starting to piss me off. READ FALLEN ANGELS AND DESCENT OF ANGELS. Every single Dark Angel swore an oath to never tell a lie, or else kill themselves. The Dark Angels Legion was based upon the Order's teachings, which were open and honest. The Lion's keeping secrets from the rest of the Legion was anathema to everything he had taught his sons.
Being able to only speak the truth does not preclude manipulation, withholding of information, and being intentionally misleading.
I understand that, but, the very idea of the Lion misleading one of the dark angels "went against everything Nemiel thought his Legion stood for".
To quote a fictional character... "Let's make this fun!"
Tactical_Spam wrote: There was a story in the SM omnibus where a single kroot killed 2-3 marines then ate their gene seed and became a Kroot-startes.
They have many secrets, the big three being:
1. Half the Legion, led by Luther, rebelled against the other half, led by Lion El'Johnson (with the common belief amongst those who know of this event being that Luthers half fell to chaos).
2. Luther is still alive and held in captivity aboard the rock. Attempts to extract a confession from him over theast 10 millenia have utterly failed as he insists that he has done nothing wrong and the Lion will return to absolve him.
3. The Lion is still alive, and lies sleeping in the deepst depths of the Rock, watched over by the Watchers in the Dark, and will awaken when the time is right.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
Lord Blackscale wrote: And that is why I called him a "closet traitor". The Dark Angels are known to be secretive. I personally believe that Luthur was the Loyalist, or at least thought he was. Johnson just waited to pick the winning side. If the Imperium knew this then, yes, they would destoy all of the Dark Angels. However, the First Legion has a habit of teamkilling those who stick their noses too far into their business.
People like you are starting to piss me off. READ FALLEN ANGELS AND DESCENT OF ANGELS. Every single Dark Angel swore an oath to never tell a lie, or else kill themselves. The Dark Angels Legion was based upon the Order's teachings, which were open and honest. The Lion's keeping secrets from the rest of the Legion was anathema to everything he had taught his sons.
Wow..... I honestly don't know how to respond to such blatant anger in the face of what I stated to be MY PERSONAL beliefs, my own headcannon so to speak. I plainly stated I chose to believe this because I find it makes a more interesting character. And no, I am not going to read every book with the Dark Angels in it. I am just making my own story and shring it in a thread where the very subject is being discussed. Getting so personaly offended is kinda uncalled for. But if you don't agree with my personal theories, more power to you. No need to get yourself all riled up.
"Because the Wolves kill cleanly, and we do not. They also kill quickly, and we have never done that, either. They fight, they win, and they stalk back to their ships with their tails held high. If they were ever ordered to destroy another Legion, they would do it by hurling warrior against warrior, seeking to grind their enemies down with the admirable delusions of the 'noble savage'. If we were ever ordered to assault another Legion, we would virus bomb their recruitment worlds; slaughter their serfs and slaves; poison their gene-seed repositories and spend the next dozen decades watching them die slow, humiliating deaths. Night after night, raid after raid, we'd overwhelm stragglers from their fleets and bleach their skulls to hang from our armour, until none remained. But that isn't the quick execution the Emperor needs, is it? The Wolves go for the throat. We go for the eyes. Then the tongue. Then the hands. Then the feet. Then we skin the crippled remains, and offer it up as an example to any still bearing witness. The Wolves were warriors before they became soldiers. We were murderers first, last, and always!" —Jago Sevatarion
DR:80SGMB--I--Pw40k01#-D++++A+/fWD-R++T(T)DM+
chaos0xomega wrote: They have many secrets, the big three being:
1. Half the Legion, led by Luther, rebelled against the other half, led by Lion El'Johnson (with the common belief amongst those who know of this event being that Luthers half fell to chaos).
Weren't the only ones to fall to Chaos were whoever was stationed on Caliban? I can understand having a sizable defence at your home base, but did they really have half their strength as a defence force? (I'm not trying to criticize, I'm genuinely curious about this, as my knowledge isn't very large in this event.
Irishpeacockz-Blackjack needs a pay raise for being the welcomer to the crusade
Palleus-Write a school essay about Kroot! Pride. Prejudice. And Cannibalsim.
Silverthorne wrote: What would have happened if during the heresy one of the prime marks simply did not choose a side and sat out the war near the halo stars or Eastern branches. Assuming that he fortify his little pocket Empire well and maintain this level of technology did not antagonize the Imperium at large and did not get himself killed, could he and his kingdom still exist? Or would chaos crusades or imperial task forces have eventually wiped him out? I'm imagining him as a non threat to the imperium, not expanding beyond his initial holdings of 500 or so worlds.
Oh you mean like Lion El'Johnson and Roboute Guilliman?
WTF? The ultramarines and DA are part of the imperium, last time I checked.
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Phoenix wrote:Well I don't think the battle company would do much to bolster the ranks of my eldar army so no.
Nonsense. The Battle Company box is perfect for filling out your ranks of aspect warriors with a large contingent from the Screaming Baldies shrine.
chaos0xomega wrote: They have many secrets, the big three being:
1. Half the Legion, led by Luther, rebelled against the other half, led by Lion El'Johnson (with the common belief amongst those who know of this event being that Luthers half fell to chaos).
2. Luther is still alive and held in captivity aboard the rock. Attempts to extract a confession from him over theast 10 millenia have utterly failed as he insists that he has done nothing wrong and the Lion will return to absolve him.
3. The Lion is still alive, and lies sleeping in the deepst depths of the Rock, watched over by the Watchers in the Dark, and will awaken when the time is right.
It is stated outright if I recall correctly that Luther at least succumbed to Chaos (hence being capable of mortally wounding the Lion).
As of the latest Dark Angels Codex (I think it's still the latest anyway) the Lion has in fact awakened and the Dark Angels are mobilising against Abaddon's 13th Black Crusade.
2BlackJack1 wrote:Weren't the only ones to fall to Chaos were whoever was stationed on Caliban? I can understand having a sizable defence at your home base, but did they really have half their strength as a defence force? (I'm not trying to criticize, I'm genuinely curious about this, as my knowledge isn't very large in this event.
If Luther was producing new Marines as fast as possible on Caliban whilst the Lion was fighting in the Horus Heresy then I don't find it too far fetched that Luther's forces equalled the Lion's in number. If that is the case though then I'd imagine the Lion had far more experienced veterans than Luther.
chaos0xomega wrote: They have many secrets, the big three being:
1. Half the Legion, led by Luther, rebelled against the other half, led by Lion El'Johnson (with the common belief amongst those who know of this event being that Luthers half fell to chaos).
2. Luther is still alive and held in captivity aboard the rock. Attempts to extract a confession from him over theast 10 millenia have utterly failed as he insists that he has done nothing wrong and the Lion will return to absolve him.
3. The Lion is still alive, and lies sleeping in the deepst depths of the Rock, watched over by the Watchers in the Dark, and will awaken when the time is right.
This is all post-Heresy, though. The whole reason that Mitchell Scanlon made them anti-lies was to add a hefty dose of irony to the tragedy of the Dark Angels
Lord Blackscale wrote: And that is why I called him a "closet traitor". The Dark Angels are known to be secretive. I personally believe that Luthur was the Loyalist, or at least thought he was. Johnson just waited to pick the winning side. If the Imperium knew this then, yes, they would destoy all of the Dark Angels. However, the First Legion has a habit of teamkilling those who stick their noses too far into their business.
People like you are starting to piss me off. READ FALLEN ANGELS AND DESCENT OF ANGELS. Every single Dark Angel swore an oath to never tell a lie, or else kill themselves. The Dark Angels Legion was based upon the Order's teachings, which were open and honest. The Lion's keeping secrets from the rest of the Legion was anathema to everything he had taught his sons.
Wow..... I honestly don't know how to respond to such blatant anger in the face of what I stated to be MY PERSONAL beliefs, my own headcannon so to speak. I plainly stated I chose to believe this because I find it makes a more interesting character. And no, I am not going to read every book with the Dark Angels in it. I am just making my own story and shring it in a thread where the very subject is being discussed. Getting so personaly offended is kinda uncalled for. But if you don't agree with my personal theories, more power to you. No need to get yourself all riled up.
My apologies, I was just getting angry that everybody, in every thread that I participate in, in every website that I go to, seems to think that Jonson was waiting to pick a side. This just happened to be the thread that I chose to vent on.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/11 03:10:24
To quote a fictional character... "Let's make this fun!"
Tactical_Spam wrote: There was a story in the SM omnibus where a single kroot killed 2-3 marines then ate their gene seed and became a Kroot-startes.
chaos0xomega wrote: They have many secrets, the big three being:
1. Half the Legion, led by Luther, rebelled against the other half, led by Lion El'Johnson (with the common belief amongst those who know of this event being that Luthers half fell to chaos).
2. Luther is still alive and held in captivity aboard the rock. Attempts to extract a confession from him over theast 10 millenia have utterly failed as he insists that he has done nothing wrong and the Lion will return to absolve him.
3. The Lion is still alive, and lies sleeping in the deepst depths of the Rock, watched over by the Watchers in the Dark, and will awaken when the time is right.
This is all post-Heresy, though. The whole reason that Mitchell Scanlon made them anti-lies was to add a hefty dose of irony to the tragedy of the Dark Angels
Lord Blackscale wrote: And that is why I called him a "closet traitor". The Dark Angels are known to be secretive. I personally believe that Luthur was the Loyalist, or at least thought he was. Johnson just waited to pick the winning side. If the Imperium knew this then, yes, they would destoy all of the Dark Angels. However, the First Legion has a habit of teamkilling those who stick their noses too far into their business.
People like you are starting to piss me off. READ FALLEN ANGELS AND DESCENT OF ANGELS. Every single Dark Angel swore an oath to never tell a lie, or else kill themselves. The Dark Angels Legion was based upon the Order's teachings, which were open and honest. The Lion's keeping secrets from the rest of the Legion was anathema to everything he had taught his sons.
Wow..... I honestly don't know how to respond to such blatant anger in the face of what I stated to be MY PERSONAL beliefs, my own headcannon so to speak. I plainly stated I chose to believe this because I find it makes a more interesting character. And no, I am not going to read every book with the Dark Angels in it. I am just making my own story and shring it in a thread where the very subject is being discussed. Getting so personaly offended is kinda uncalled for. But if you don't agree with my personal theories, more power to you. No need to get yourself all riled up.
My apologies, I was just getting angry that everybody, in every thread that I participate in, in every website that I go to, seems to think that Jonson was waiting to pick a side. This just happened to be the thread that I chose to vent on.
No worries. I can see how that would be irritatating. I don't look at it as "waiting to join a side" as much as looking out for his legion, and damn the rest. I think he would do whatever it took to keep his legion as whole as possible, if that meant joining Horus only to backstab him later, then so be it. I think it is good to have more than just the obvious "I am so evil!" villian and the "I will do what is good no matter what" type hero. As for what the "official" cannon on his stance, if there is such a thing, I don't concern myself. I just want to see the shades of grey. Hell, my favorite legion is the Night Lords, and I choose to belive that the turned because they felt that the Emps betrayed them for doing the job he gave them too well. To each his own I suppose. Anywho, carrry on and such.
"Because the Wolves kill cleanly, and we do not. They also kill quickly, and we have never done that, either. They fight, they win, and they stalk back to their ships with their tails held high. If they were ever ordered to destroy another Legion, they would do it by hurling warrior against warrior, seeking to grind their enemies down with the admirable delusions of the 'noble savage'. If we were ever ordered to assault another Legion, we would virus bomb their recruitment worlds; slaughter their serfs and slaves; poison their gene-seed repositories and spend the next dozen decades watching them die slow, humiliating deaths. Night after night, raid after raid, we'd overwhelm stragglers from their fleets and bleach their skulls to hang from our armour, until none remained. But that isn't the quick execution the Emperor needs, is it? The Wolves go for the throat. We go for the eyes. Then the tongue. Then the hands. Then the feet. Then we skin the crippled remains, and offer it up as an example to any still bearing witness. The Wolves were warriors before they became soldiers. We were murderers first, last, and always!" —Jago Sevatarion
DR:80SGMB--I--Pw40k01#-D++++A+/fWD-R++T(T)DM+
Farseer Anath'lan wrote: Gillian calls the Lion secretive, but on no point does he declare him to be manipulative. The closest he comes is referring to him as cunning in war. Guilliman also has a personal dislike of the Lion, and is envious of him. Furthermore, he does offer the Lion the Regency of Empire of Ultramar. The Lion refuses. Guilliman and all of Ultramar recognise him as loyal.
The Night Haunter does not believe that he can turn the Lion. The first words of the dialogue state that. The talk is never amicable, Curze constantly takes shots at the Lion.
The Lion believes he should have been Warmaster as the best tactician. The Primarchs all talk about how Horus was one of the most likeable, but they also query whether him being the Emperors favourite had an impact on the choice.
Most of the minor characters who voice their distrust of the Lion are all foot soldiers and low ranking officers. They express the same distrust of the Dark Angels, who's secrecy is a palpable thing, dating back to when they were the only Legion. This is their schtick, what they're known for, and people in the higher ranks don't let it effect their opinion of them.
Merir Astelan (the Fallen) was a high ranking officer publicly humiliated by the Lion by his redeployment to Caliban. He also was nowhere near the Lion during the Heresy, and as such has no idea what the hell was happening, fired on the Lion's fleet expressly against orders and why would he lie I wonder? Public enemy number 1, nah, course he's telling the truth. Furthermore, Graham McNeil made a statement where he said that Astelan was not intended to be believed. He was shocked so many people took him at face value.
Luther contemplated killing the Lion before the Heresy even began, and seceded Caliban from the Imperium, declaring them as antithetical to Calibans way of life. He also mortally wounded the Lion, as a mere human, and there is a scene where he is glowing with chaos runes.
Perturabo wasn't even a known Traitor at the time the siege engines were handed over. Lion is famously bad at reading people and their intentions, and the fact was everyone believed the Iron Warriors to be Loyal. That is also out of character.
The Lion actions speak volumes. He attacks the Night Lords for two years, nearly kills Curze, steals Warp Technology from the traitor Death Guard and has a hundred little quotes that call him loyal. "Loyalty is it's own reward", "None should rule, but my Father". The guy was literally too stuck up to serve anyone but the Emperor. They might not have liked him, but no one doubted his loyalty.
Originally, yeah, there was the idea that the Lion could have been a traitor. Then they decided to clean it up, years ago. There is no longer any reasonable background to him being a traitor. Once, but no more.
Sorry for the rant.
^ Yes. Thank you sir.
An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.
"Because the Wolves kill cleanly, and we do not. They also kill quickly, and we have never done that, either. They fight, they win, and they stalk back to their ships with their tails held high. If they were ever ordered to destroy another Legion, they would do it by hurling warrior against warrior, seeking to grind their enemies down with the admirable delusions of the 'noble savage'. If we were ever ordered to assault another Legion, we would virus bomb their recruitment worlds; slaughter their serfs and slaves; poison their gene-seed repositories and spend the next dozen decades watching them die slow, humiliating deaths. Night after night, raid after raid, we'd overwhelm stragglers from their fleets and bleach their skulls to hang from our armour, until none remained. But that isn't the quick execution the Emperor needs, is it? The Wolves go for the throat. We go for the eyes. Then the tongue. Then the hands. Then the feet. Then we skin the crippled remains, and offer it up as an example to any still bearing witness. The Wolves were warriors before they became soldiers. We were murderers first, last, and always!" —Jago Sevatarion
Elysian Drop Troops, 
Dark Angels, 30K
so no.
