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 Bobthehero wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
If it's a zero-atmos environment its likely a Space Station, moon base or other valuable/strategic spot, Astartes would be called.

The guard is more than able to fight in such circumstances.

Agreed. You need something more special than merely vacuum to call in Astartes.

I picked it up because I was told it had some interesting schola progenium and Vostroyan fluff tidbits. Other than a few litanies, hints at hierarchy, and curses, no, it doesn't.
It was a valiant effort, the fault lies with whoever approved it without correcting the writer.

 Bobthehero wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
If it's a zero-atmos environment its likely a Space Station, moon base or other valuable/strategic spot, Astartes would be called.

The guard is more than able to fight in such circumstances.

Not the point I was making. Astartes would show up anyway if the zero-atmos environment was worth defending at all.

Astartes rarely show up to anything, they're basically the hero that wasn't there.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:
Have you seen Krieg? Even Armageddon has a toxic atmosphere where humans can't survive. They both do fine with their guard regiments.

Toxic air =/= no atmosphere. With no atmosphere you have to deal with temperatures changes that no human can withstand. On our moon, for example the temeprtures can range form 100C during the day to -175C at night. As well as having to deal with environmental sealing on the suits. I mean, I'm sure the imperium has those things (void suits are a thing that exists, I was just wondering if there was anything specific that they use. Sorry if I was unclear.

We've been able to deal with this using unaugmented humans since the early 1960s. I don't see how it's a question of how they can do it in the future if we can already do it now.

 Silverthorne wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:
Have you seen Krieg? Even Armageddon has a toxic atmosphere where humans can't survive. They both do fine with their guard regiments.

Toxic air =/= no atmosphere. With no atmosphere you have to deal with temperatures changes that no human can withstand. On our moon, for example the temeprtures can range form 100C during the day to -175C at night. As well as having to deal with environmental sealing on the suits. I mean, I'm sure the imperium has those things (void suits are a thing that exists, I was just wondering if there was anything specific that they use. Sorry if I was unclear.

We've been able to deal with this using unaugmented humans since the early 1960s. I don't see how it's a question of how they can do it in the future if we can already do it now.

We used highly specialised, pressurised suits designed for limited use, are not particular durable, costly, require lots of training to use and are highly unsuited for combat.
We need suits that are cheap, highly durable, mass produced, heavy enough to not impede the user in zero gravity conditions, the wearer can learn to use in just 48 hours, expendable enough to put on Guardsman, and not advanced/bulky enough to be comparable to power armour and thus making it more sensible just to call in Marines.

... It is never "more sensible" to call in Marines.

Materials cost of Power Armour is one thing, but the opportunity cost of deploying a Space Marine is greater by several orders of magnitude.

You're more likely to see Guardsmen equipped with Power Armour than you are to see Space Marines deployed to any given warzone (other than a specific one that falls directly within a Space Marine chapter's territory, which covers about 10% of the Imperium)), because Space Marines are just that rare.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
... It is never "more sensible" to call in Marines.

Materials cost of Power Armour is one thing, but the opportunity cost of deploying a Space Marine is greater by several orders of magnitude.

You're more likely to see Guardsmen equipped with Power Armour than you are to see Space Marines deployed to any given warzone (other than a specific one that falls directly within a Space Marine chapter's territory, which covers about 10% of the Imperium)), because Space Marines are just that rare.

Utter tripe. Are you forgetting the hundreds and hundreds of major engagements the Space Marines participate in over the course of the fluff? Planets that are valuable, useful, or just nearby? Space stations, moon bases, Space Hulks, etc. Space Marines are deployed where they are needed, not where they live. They'd be absolutely useless if they were the ultimate defenders of humanity, but only within their few planets of origin. If the zero-atmos environment was valuable enough to be worth defending, by being strategic, useful or otherwise, and guardsmen were not up to the task of defending it, Astartes would be requested as per the thousands of other battles where guardsmen are not up to the task and request Marine assistance.

 Deadshot wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
... It is never "more sensible" to call in Marines.

Materials cost of Power Armour is one thing, but the opportunity cost of deploying a Space Marine is greater by several orders of magnitude.

You're more likely to see Guardsmen equipped with Power Armour than you are to see Space Marines deployed to any given warzone (other than a specific one that falls directly within a Space Marine chapter's territory, which covers about 10% of the Imperium)), because Space Marines are just that rare.

Utter tripe. Are you forgetting the hundreds and hundreds of major engagements the Space Marines participate in over the course of the fluff? Planets that are valuable, useful, or just nearby? Space stations, moon bases, Space Hulks, etc. Space Marines are deployed where they are needed, not where they live. They'd be absolutely useless if they were the ultimate defenders of humanity, but only within their few planets of origin. If the zero-atmos environment was valuable enough to be worth defending, by being strategic, useful or otherwise, and guardsmen were not up to the task of defending it, Astartes would be requested as per the thousands of other battles where guardsmen are not up to the task and request Marine assistance.

There are no "minor battles" for Astartes. With only 1,000,000 in the entire galaxy, if even -one- is present at an engagement, it is a massive investment of the resources of the Imperium.

The Guard are the first and last lines of defense for Mankind; the Marines are too rare. They're not just 'waiting in the winds' to be called to war; they're most likely fighting somewhere else, as they probably get more requests for aid per day than there are marines in a chapter. If there are any Astartes with free time enough to simply wait to be called in somewhere, then they're not doing their job.

Why is it so hard to believe the Imperium can mass produce void suits to equip Imperial Guard regiments?

For that matter, why not believe they can equip whole regiments for underwater, toxic or hypoxic environments?

Making environment gear is a lot cheaper than creating Space Marines. Space Marines are employed where the target is considered strategically important, not simply because of the environment.

Sure, it's possible that a challenging environment would also be important enough to commit substantial numbers of Space Marines. It's equally possible that no Marines were available for an utterly crucial objective, given how scarce they are.

It would be foolhardy in the extreme for the Imperium to depend solely on 1,000,000 Space Marines for the defense of millions of airless/oxygenless/toxic environments all across the Galaxy. Heck, there are probably thousands of Regiments of the Guard who specialize in void combat, just as there are Valhallan Ice Warriors, Tallarn Desert Warriors, Death Korps of Krieg/Steel Legion (toxic) and the like.

For that matter, you should expect that Xenos who are typically modeled/portrayed without sealed environment suits (Orks, anyone?) can produce enough void suits to carry on campaigns in lethal environments. Even Tyranids probably have the means to invade such places. Their bio ships are living creatures directly exposed to the void, after all... though it's conceivable Tyranids have a line of bio-critter specially evolved for, say, aquatic combat. If they lacked enviro-protection, why would they bother to be in a lethal environment in the first place?

It's probably safe to suggest that unliving Necrons operate pretty much as-is in any environment that doesn't fry their necrodermal systems outright. Being unliving and all.

My two cents.

There will be specialist units. If the guard has nothing then there is the Navy, they operate solely in void warfare and will have specialist gear. Boarding ships, they my not have atmosphere or be damaged in combat

Also elite navy boarding troops, specialists in close combat and close qauters battles.

Deadshot wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
... It is never "more sensible" to call in Marines.

Materials cost of Power Armour is one thing, but the opportunity cost of deploying a Space Marine is greater by several orders of magnitude.

You're more likely to see Guardsmen equipped with Power Armour than you are to see Space Marines deployed to any given warzone (other than a specific one that falls directly within a Space Marine chapter's territory, which covers about 10% of the Imperium)), because Space Marines are just that rare.

Utter tripe. Are you forgetting the hundreds and hundreds of major engagements the Space Marines participate in over the course of the fluff? Planets that are valuable, useful, or just nearby? Space stations, moon bases, Space Hulks, etc. Space Marines are deployed where they are needed, not where they live. They'd be absolutely useless if they were the ultimate defenders of humanity, but only within their few planets of origin. If the zero-atmos environment was valuable enough to be worth defending, by being strategic, useful or otherwise, and guardsmen were not up to the task of defending it, Astartes would be requested as per the thousands of other battles where guardsmen are not up to the task and request Marine assistance.

No, I am not forgetting the hundreds and hundreds of major engagements the Space Marines participate in over the course of the last ten thousand years of fluff. I'm simply setting them in perspective against the thousands of engagements the Imperium takes part in every day.

Which is statistically significant? A thousand in one day, or a hundred in a thousand years?

Same way they fight in normal atmosphere. If it's Guard, they are just issued with special gear for that mission.