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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Again, formation benefits vary too much to use them in this kind of head to head comparison. As I said, a decurion warrior has a 4+ reanimation protocol, the tactical marine gets a free razorback.

Space marine wins out on that one.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




So doesn't that serve as an answer to the question over who is better? Are tactical marines really contributing to the game without their free transport formation? Are warriors accomplishing a lot without the 4+ reanimation protocol making them absurdly tough for the points?

I agree that formation bonuses vary wildly (one reason they are bad for the game), but to not include them seems like a mistake if we are talking from a competitive standpoint.

In WMH, when talking about the validity of units, we discuss in and out of tier. While tier does limit a unit a lot more than formations do, it still merits a conversation if say...argus wolves are garbage but are amazing if taken in tier. It doesn't mean that they are crap or amazing, it means that they are situationally very good, and that has to be taken into consideration.
   
Made in gb
Hallowed Canoness





Between

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
The tactical marine can throw a krakk grenade if within 8". Thus rendering the single necron warrior almost useless. S6 ap4 for the win.

You don't get to count decurion for their bonus because the free razorback that the marine gets outright stomps the single warrior from 36" away. Formation bonuses CANNOT be taken into consideration when looking at a basic units worth in a one on one situation.


Not quite that clear cut. The Krak Grenade doesn't double the Warrior out, so he (in effect) has a 5+ invulnerable save. The Krak Grenade only has a one in three chance of actually causing an unsaved wound.

At 12.1-24", the Marine inflicts 0.08 wounds on the Warrior, and takes 0.11 in return.
At 8.1" to 12", the Marine inflicts 0.16 wounds on the Warrior, and takes 0.22 in return.
At 1.1" to 8", the Marine inflicts 0.27 wounds on the Warrior, and takes 0.22 in return.

At 0" to 2" (in close combat), the Marine inflicts 0.06 wounds on the Warrior, and takes 0.08 in return.

Conclusion: The krak grenade puts the Marine at a slightly higher chance of winning if he hasn't yet died before getting into 8", but at all other ranges - including assault, despite I4, the Warrior beats him up by a small margin - or a large one if they're inside rapid fire, but outside krak grenade range!



"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




How are you getting those numbers? a 4+/5+ is a 66% chance at a save, same as a 3+.

Space marine and necron warrior have the exact same chance to survive a wound, have the exact same chance to wound, and have the exact same chance to take a wound from one another's guns. They will have the same survivability until the space marine gets to throw a grenade.

   
 
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