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Someone was talking about leaks of the kauyon book or new codex so take it with a lot of salt I can't prove anything.



It would be "win" Tau for the first part even though both armies were getting wrecked hard. The storyline end there.


Also the transfer sheet talk about Vior'la Sept as a homeworld... But i'm pretty sure It should be T'au. Maybe the Imperium will do an exterminatus run on the Tau homeworld or the Tyranids will just eat the planet in a future book.

"This 210x297mm decal sheet contains highly-detailed transfers depicting the striking iconography and symbolism of the Vior’la Sept, the Tau Empire’s notably aggressive and batle-skilled homeworld. It’s been designed especially for creating beautiful patterns on your miniatures - simply cut to fit, and apply"

...They killed the fething Knight? That is bs.

The Septs are often referred to as having a 'Homeworld' so I doubt there's anything more to it than that. Remember that Tau from the Vior'la Sept still call their Homeworld 'Vior'la' since that is, literally, their Homeworld. Farsight, for example, is referred to as having Vior'la as a Homeworld.I highly doubt we'd see any fluff change as big and radical as the T'au Sept being annihilated for any reason. More likely its just a comment saying 'now you can play Tau who's Homeworld is Vior'la' kind of like how the Homeworld of Space Wolves is reffered to as Fenris, not Terra. Obviously it could happen but...I really wouldn't bet my money on something that radical happening anytime soon at all.

I think Homeworld is being used as a synonym for Septworld here, in the same way Fenris is... yeah, what Anemone said.

The Tau win after it, unsurprisingly given the title, it all turns out to be a massive bait by Shadowsun.
The Chapter Master of the Raven Guard is killed (Shrike takes his place) and in killing such a renowned figure as a Chapter Master of the first founding the Tau get the full ire of the Imperium on Terra.

from my understanding:

The chapter master didn't get outright slain, he may yet come back as a Dread.

Shadowsun was responsible for killing him, but I thought He also cut off shadowsuns arm and stabbed her multiple times leaving her for dead.

Anemone: I understand everything you have said, but the reason I don't consider the orks as dominant is because, as you said, they are dispersed and quite the opposite of united. As for the chaos gods, their forces pop up here and there, but because of Cadia's job at holding out on the Cadian Gate, Chaos marines/ daemons have no stable route to get into our galaxy.

And I know, I know what you mean, and it really usually doesn't bother me when the Imperial loses, but that's not the problem. The problem is that they keep on losing to the Tau. I mean, almost every conflict fought between them ends up in the Tau winning. I wouldn't have a problem reading about any other faction defeating the humans because no other faction, because of GW, has claimed so many victories in such a short period of time other than the Tau. It's not the fact they lose, it's the fact they keep on losing. If the Imperials were to win this campaign, I judt hope it doesn't follow today's norm where- the Guard soften up the enemy but get annihilated, then Space Marines come out of nowhere and win.

And also, yes please! Please send me stories of crisis suits/ any battle suit, getting massacred by Imperial forces! I've only ever heard of it happening (Voltoris, and the Black Leviathan short story) but I've never actually read any moments where is happened. I remember a short story in, I believe it was Shas'o, where shadow sun finds three dead crisis suits in a crater with kram missle holes in each of them, but it doesn't actually describe how the suits were defeated. I read a part of Fire Caste but that novel was a biased, one sided load of cheese where the Guard were made to look like super Rambos, atleast in the part that I read, it featured sentinels (I'm pretty sure only two) take out a team of crisis suits while losing about only half their squadron.

So yes, please send stories of the Imperials beating the Tau
And who is the character that Shadowsun killed, if you don't mind spoiling it for me? Is it the stormseer from Voltoris, or is it somebody more renowned, like Captain Shrike?... Thanks in advance.

It's the guy who died to make Shrike captain. Nobody important.

Being a named character in the tabletop game basically grants you ultimate plot armour - why is shy for the most part, people don't write about them.

 A Watcher In The Dark wrote:
Someone was talking about leaks of the kauyon book or new codex so take it with a lot of salt I can't prove anything.

Spoiler:

The Imperial forces withdraw after taking casualties (shadowsun killing the chapter master of the ravenguard). All remaining forces are being called upon to stop the Tyranids. The obsidian knight get killed by multiple Stormsurges (but why GW?!? i just finished painting him!).

The Imperium however now see the Tau as a threat to get rid off and are preparing a full scale crusade to wipe them out. Farsight is suppsed to be their savior, but at the cost of his soul.

It would be "win" Tau for the first part even though both armies were getting wrecked hard. The storyline end there.


Also the transfer sheet talk about Vior'la Sept as a homeworld... But i'm pretty sure It should be T'au. Maybe the Imperium will an exterminatus run on the Tau homeworld or the Tyranids just ate eat in a future book.

"This 210x297mm decal sheet contains highly-detailed transfers depicting the striking iconography and symbolism of the Vior’la Sept, the Tau Empire’s notably aggressive and batle-skilled homeworld. It’s been designed especially for creating beautiful patterns on your miniatures - simply cut to fit, and apply"

Oh, well you just answered my question. And did the Obsidian Knight get killed? Are you serious?
Damn Shadowsun! Give it a few more seconds and Khan would have outright killed her! Instead, she was forced to retreat because of her dire injuries, and came back another day to make the Raven Guard cry. Yes she escaped, yes I mentioned that only to remind people she's not, or shouldn't be invincible. Now that I mention it, there was a story in Shas'o where Shadowsun, in her xv22 stealth suit and fusion blasters, fights an Imperial Guard colonial in one on one melee and lost. She unproudfully (is that a word?) fired her fusion blasters at the colonial during the fight because she knew she wouldn't win against him. Take in mind this man was wearing probably just his flak armour with some nice medals, while Shadowsun was in her battlesuit. Anyway, they fight, Shadowsun fires her weapon and narrowly misses, they keep fighting, colonial kicks her ass, and before he finishes her off and kills her, Shadowsun's Human prisoner jumps in and saves her. I can recall two times now, or three if the Raven Guard chapter master injured her, where Shadowsun was humiliated, if not defeated in melee. That's understandable though, since the Tau aren't known to be martial artists, but how bout we shoot her instead? >

Also, does anybody notice how often a battle is fought because it is "bait?" Shadowsun constantly fools the Imperium, and we constantly fall for it :/ but the Tau now has our attention, let's see where this goes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
It's the guy who died to make Shrike captain. Nobody important.

Being a named character in the tabletop game basically grants you ultimate plot armour - why is shy for the most part, people don't write about them.

I thought the Ravenguard Chapter Master is who died?

I don't see how it's that surprising that the knight got killed. The tau do have anti-titian weapons you know. Although GW writers seem to forget, because they are from FW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

123ply wrote:
Wow, I never noticed how close Dal'yth was to the fringe of their territory. I was under the impression it was deeper than that. Still though, if I remember correctly, the Tau have spent more of their forces on thay Sept world than they have on any other planet. If the Imperium were to win there, they would have survived the bulk of the Tau's firepower and moved on.

Dal'yth was deeper than that. It's literally the only one of "several" worlds that managed to hold out against the Crusade.

No, not at all. The tau empire is bigger than it ever was before. That map is 3rd sphere, long after they recaptured the worlds lost. Heck that's even part of farsight's backstory, the first sign of him splitting off was him continuing to capture worlds after re-capturing the ones lost.

Triszin wrote:
from my understanding:

The chapter master didn't get outright slain, he may yet come back as a Dread.

Shadowsun was responsible for killing him, but I thought He also cut off shadowsuns arm and stabbed her multiple times leaving her for dead.

Now I could see this happening, but because Shadowsun is such am Important character, I doubt her arm was cut off, unless the tau make use of mechanized prosthetics like the Imperial do. Though, those injuries seem more likely to happen to one of the other Commanders.

Speaking of, what of the T'au and Vior'la commanders? Did they get killed or are they still breathing? Because it's not unimaginable that they die, Considering they were created just for this narrative.

^^^ The Tau have anti titan weapons, But so do the Imperium. If anything, they have even more, yet I don't think any of us will ever read about a stormsurge getting destroyed anytime soon.

The tau do have prosthetics, farsight has them for his legs (I think they were burnt off).

And it's quite likely the chapter master will survive, SMs have a knack for that (especially named ones ).

Triszin wrote:

The chapter master didn't get outright slain, he may yet come back as a Dread.

He is dead, Jim.

Triszin wrote:

Shadowsun was responsible for killing him, but I thought He also cut off shadowsuns arm and stabbed her multiple times leaving her for dead.

That was the decoy!Shadowsun.

The tau do have prosthetics, Farsight has them for his legs (I think they were burnt off).

Chewed off by huge spider-aliens, to be exact .

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
The tau do have prosthetics, farsight has them for his legs (I think they were burnt off).

And it's quite likely the chapter master will survive, SMs have a knack for that (especially named ones ).

corvenus or whatever his name was: wasnt a named marine really, he was mentioned as a captain in like 1 novel briefly and in a whitedwarf

originally the Raven Guard were never supposed to have a chapter master, their structure was supposed to be guerrilla like and having many chapter masters in the sense of keeping information limited to all parties. So everyone named a chapter master name who actually never existed.

I just see this as them making Shrike the leader to sell his model more, given the added warlord traits.

 AtoMaki wrote:

The tau do have prosthetics, Farsight has them for his legs (I think they were burnt off).

Chewed off by huge spider-aliens, to be exact .

Oh, there we go.

@Triszin: Unfortunately I think he's gone for good. Considering he had no Miniature and was tragically one of those sort of named characters who are introduced, hyped and then usually die to a Character with a model without ever demonstrating anything beyond 'Informed Ability' I doubt GW has any interest in him surviving. He's sort of like that Ork Warboss on Ulanor or, really, Orks in Space Marine fiction of any sort. His purpose was to make Shadowsun look badass. I agree its a pity that's all we got but I really doubt he's survived. At least, I suppose, he does have Voltoris to his credit, since he orchestrated it, so that's better than nothing.



@123ply: So moving on from the 'dominance' issue since I don't really think its relevant to this thread and, to be honest, I have nothing more to say on it other than that 'dominance' can be understood in multiple ways and the Chaos Gods are probably the most 'dominant' group in power terms in the setting, much to my chagrin.

On the issue of the Tau giving the Imperium a pounding...yes, its true, they are. The Tau are the one faction with a really good win record against the Imperium. I can understand that this bugs you, of course, but as I said just keep in mind how an Ork, Eldar, Necron, Chaos Space Marine or Dark Elder player feels with their inability to ever achieve meaningful narrative victories over the Imperium. What's happening with the Imperium in regards to the Tau right now, I understand, can be annoying but if we step back and take a little perspective its really a small drop in an otherwise still mostly one-sided set of victories. As you yourself said the Imperium might still win this conflict. That would make Agrellan still the only narrative supplement they have ever lost. As I said we can ever criticise when one faction seems to just steam roll everyone, which for a long time I did, but then we should be fair. As bad as the Tau are doing it the Imperium are still by far and away the biggest culprits of this and thus we should have even more concern with them. Second to them would be the Tau, by some margin, but I wouldn't argue that the Tau are recently doing best after the Imperium in the narrative conflicts. However, as I said, I've chosen to hope instead that maybe we can just reach a point where every faction gets narrative supplements where they are awesome and kickass.

So though I can sympathise with disliking the repeated defeats I must still, overall, admit I don't really see a problem with it. Even in Agrellan GW went out of its way to ameliorate the Imperium loss as much as it could, particularly by making it that despite the primary campaign being a Tau victory on Agrellan the final battle had to be an Imperium victory on Voltoris. Kauyon is the only unambiguous Tau narrative victory so far and, as you said, maybe they lose in the end anyway. That'd would be very disappointing and predictable to me but, as I said, the Imperium winning is predictable so I won't be surprised if it happens. On a personal side note I am also, personally, just happy to read Shadowsun being an unambiguous badass for once. On Agrellan we consistently had her berated by Aun'va and outdone by Ko'sarro and then in Last of Kiru's Line we have a normal Guardsman get the better of her (I'm imagining a Space Marine Special Character ever being allowed to be lame enough that, say, a single Chaos Cultist or Ork Boy can get the better of them). So to in Kauyon to finally just have her kick incredible, probably improbable, amounts of ass is refreshing. I know it'll all probably end with her losing and having to have Farsight bail her out cause she's not good enough to win on her own but, for now at least, I am actually enjoying her successes.

As for the Battlesuits being destroyed, sure, tomorrow during the day I'll compile quotes and send them to you, no problem.

...Every other faction besides the Tau have better chances of achieving victory against the Imperium. Hell they all achieve victory every day essentially.

DE raid everyday, Eldar manipulate everyone, Orks get to fight period and are on the cusp of the greatest WAAAGH! ever. Tau... don't really deserve these victories.

It is bad fluff. But hey Tau players are fine with it so its justified.

Also Shadowsun being such a badass she loses a fight with a IG officer and ends up being saved by a prisoner... now that is a bad taste and not badass. But hey I never liked Tau whatev.

"Don't deserve"? What do you mean by that?

Plot armor is the only thing that keeps Tau alive. Meh. Like everyone else said, when was the last time Tau actually lost.

EDIT: I also had a soft spot for Raven Guard and they got Worfed... again.

So that means they don't "deserve" wins? Look at what had been sent after them. Nowhere near enough to kill them. The orks messed up the tau more than the imperium has at this point (the great war of confederation hit the tau harder than the imperium ever has). Although I do feel where you are coming from here.

 Quickjager wrote:
Plot armor is the only thing that keeps Tau alive. Meh. Like everyone else said, when was the last time Tau actually lost.

Well... Pretty much everyone who isn't the Imperium is kicking Tau butt nowadays. Hive Fleet Gorgon almost ate the Empire (ironically, the Imperium saved the Tau here), the Dark Eldar trolled them super-hard, the Necrons harvested one of their Septs and are ready for more, the Orks are striking out from everywhere, and Chaos actively infiltrates the Tau through Farsight. Things look pretty bleak for the Tau outside of the Democles warzone, to be honest. Especially since the Earth Caste went haywire and picked up the habit to blow up moons/suns/everything with their random experiments.

Quickjaeger: I'm assuming your responses are off the cuff emotive ones, so, fine I'll not bother with the stereotyping of an entire group of people based on a fictional army they play (not to that a 'Tau' player can just as easily be an Imperal or Ork or whatever player). As to what you actually said about the fluff;

Your list of 'events' without examples is missing the fact that the 'Imperium winning wars' can as easily be added to it as any of the ones you mentioned. Also if the Orks are on the verge of the greatest Waaagh ever remains to be seen, it is still dwarfed by the Beast for example, hence why we discuss narrative and fluff based instances since everyone has statements of 'we do battles and win' thus th conversation has been concerning examples of it of importance to the narrative. Not to mention, key, is that your list ignores the Imperium winning battles, as common an event as the others you list.

Also a short list of recent defeats; Voltoris, Cano'var, An incident against the Adeptus Mechanicus in their new codex, The Space Wolves also have one where they destroy an underwater Tau colony, The Orks destroyed and looted a mega colony of theirs,

As for Shadowsun, yeah, now you get why it's nice to see her finally being an unambiguous badass?

Finally; everyone stays alive cause of plot armour. It's how the story works. But you have my sympathies concerning the Raven Guard, I do dislike how they were used.

To be fair the DE and Necron incidents were avoidable, but the Tau entered negotiations in bad faith themselves. Annnnd gak went down because of it, everyone was waiting to backstab the other side in those deals.

What would be the best outcome for the tau lore?

Simply put Tau and IMperium need there "Cadia" so to speak. A Line of worlds in which the battle is a constant back and forth.

At the same time a Treaty between the IoM and the Tau empire that allows them to expand to certain worlds (worlds either infested by orks or tyranid or other issues the IoM simply dont feel like dealing with)


Also a correction on lore, no more retcons, but have everyone be on the same page. No more oh they fell for the simple trap, write everyone intellegent. And gak happens, no plot armor.

but to do this they must advance the timeline, WHich I think they are starting to.


My biggest issue with the tau, they seem to be the only plotline they are advancing, everyone else must remain the same. I have issues when you advance one army and on one else.

By advancing I mean furthering the timeline and adding subtracting units.

Honestly they (Tau and the Imperium) are going to end up allies sometime in the future if 40k played out logically and the Eldar will eventually join that.

If 40k ever got resolved it would be Chaos vs. Eldar/humanity/maybeTau? Hard to say because the only prophecies we got for the Tau are apparently Farsight will save them from the Imperium... and after that nothing (And I've been hearing some gak about a GK teaming up w/ Farsight because of possible daemons).

 Quickjager wrote:
Honestly they (Tau and the Imperium) are going to end up allies sometime in the future if 40k played out logically and the Eldar will eventually join that.

If 40k ever got resolved it would be Chaos vs. Eldar/humanity/maybeTau? Hard to say because the only prophecies we got for the Tau are apparently Farsight will save them from the Imperium... and after that nothing (And I've been hearing some gak about a GK teaming up w/ Farsight because of possible daemons).

I could see them as neutral to each other. They dont push or take worlds already in use by each other, they may or may not share information they may effect each other in the future.

I could see them aiding each other when interests align but not true allies. No way would they be trade partners or share ideologies. There would still be conflict between them when they both want the same world for resources. I dont ever see them maning the same fort or listening posts however.


I would love to see 2 golden thrones, the backwards Highlords, and the Progressive Ultramarar. Ultramarar would be more willing to work with tau, but not much, as they would be focused and altering the mindset engraved into there people for thousands of years.

(dont mention the horrible Tau fanfic of the Tau and ultramarines teaming up and taking terra, thats whack and stupid as gak.)


----------------------------

In regards to lore inwhich Tau get wiped and beat up bad, basically every time the Space Wolves fight the tau, the space wolves just wreck em


----------------------------

double edit:

So damocles Gulf part 2

TAU:
-Farsight enclave
-Mercenaries: Kroot

IMperium:
-Sisters
- Admech
- IG

The Tau have a reckoning coming, as there are actually valuable worlds the Tau are encroaching on (known as the Gilded Worlds, because they literally have mountains of Gold and Platinum), and the Imperium are sending enough troops to defend it that it's described that the Tau would literally have to throw everything they have at them to *maybe* take them.

And then there are the other fleets they are sending to take Agrellan back / attack the Taus territory behind Prefectia. They are pretty much waiting for the Tau to strike again so they can counter attack while their forces are throwing themselves at the Gilded Worlds.

And the only reason why they are sending the offensive part of the deal is because they killed the Raven Guard's chapter master.

Farsight is supposed to come back and save the Tau - I wonder if he's going to enact a Mon'ka on both of his enemies - the Imperials that are invading (for Dramas sake, it's on Fior'la!) and Aun'va, the super war mongering Ethereal.

Anemone wrote:On a personal side note I am also, personally, just happy to read Shadowsun being an unambiguous badass for once.

I'd have prefered it if we could have had another general like Creed; someone who is very good at commanding armies but isn't that great in direct combat. Ah well.

Leadership-wise she's been portrayed as ludicrously competent. It's only in the recent novellas that she's actually had a defeat. Before that there she won a string of stunning victories that seemed easy. Including commanding a Tau fleet against a splinter Tyranid fleet and destroying it without losing a ship. That's arguably excessive by itself let alone the fact that she shouldn't have been commanding the battle in the first place. That's the Air Caste's job!

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
So that means they don't "deserve" wins? Look at what had been sent after them. Nowhere near enough to kill them. The orks messed up the tau more than the imperium has at this point (the great war of confederation hit the tau harder than the imperium ever has). Although I do feel where you are coming from here.

While you have a point the Tau have routinely smashed the Imperium in most engagements. Aside from recent battles their losses are seldom suggested to have been large. Have the Imperial Guard ever beaten the Tau with Space Marine or Knight support?

Quickjager wrote:To be fair the DE and Necron incidents were avoidable, but the Tau entered negotiations in bad faith themselves. Annnnd gak went down because of it, everyone was waiting to backstab the other side in those deals.

Not really. The Tau needed the Dark Eldar to defeat the Tyranids (I believe it's pretty much stated that they were going to lose otherwise. The Dark Eldar still did them a favour overall). Likewise without the Necrons the Tyranids would have consumed the world.

Triszin wrote:In regards to lore inwhich Tau get wiped and beat up bad, basically every time the Space Wolves fight the tau, the space wolves just wreck em

Conversely the Imperial Fists or their descendants will get slaughtered when they fight the Tau. But then that's pretty par for the course for Imperial Fists.
On a personal side note I am also, personally, just happy to read Shadowsun being an unambiguous badass for once.


If we're going to talk about hard-done factions in the victories department I think the Eldar do take the cake. Despite have superior technology to all bar the Necrons, potent Psychic powers including foresight, centuries of experience and loyal soldiers they still routinely get either alright defeated or win pyrrhic victories. If anyone deserves to win most of the time it'd be them.

Yes, but that's kind of the Eldar's thing - if you get them in direct battle, they've already lost. Every time there's a battle that Eldar don't appear in, the Eldar win.

They likely retconned it but IIRC the Damocles Crusade was essentially a draw, with the Imperium withdrawing to deal with the Tyranids and the Tau pushing forward (which at the time was the Third Sphere Expansion I believe, but unless I'm mistaken back in my day it didn't have a name).

For all intents and purposes though it's a stalemate/Mexican standoff.