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 jasper76 wrote:
The thing you learn growing up in the city, is that police are not to be trusted with almost anything.

"We must always remember that the police are recruited from the criminal classes." - Gore Vidal

It is not surprising to me to see dramatic actions from African Americans given that they have never been given a fair shake in US society. The fact that the police are too violent is not the fault of the policed. For Christ's sake, there was just a video of a cop caught red handed beating a 12 year old black girl around a class in front of her peers. It's a new world because now, unlike when I grew up, the people can record everything.

You mean that 16 year old girl who refused to leave the class and the teacher supports the cops actions? Maybe try doing what your suppose to and not do bad things and bad things will stop happening to you.

OgreChubbs wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
The thing you learn growing up in the city, is that police are not to be trusted with almost anything.

"We must always remember that the police are recruited from the criminal classes." - Gore Vidal

It is not surprising to me to see dramatic actions from African Americans given that they have never been given a fair shake in US society. The fact that the police are too violent is not the fault of the policed. For Christ's sake, there was just a video of a cop caught red handed beating a 12 year old black girl around a class in front of her peers. It's a new world because now, unlike when I grew up, the people can record everything.

You mean that 16 year old girl who refused to leave the class and the teacher supports the cops actions? Maybe try doing what your suppose to and not do bad things and bad things will stop happening to you.

That sort of thing happens just about every day on high school campuses across the country, it's not unusual to have some teenager acting stupid like that, and yet desk flipping and throwing students around and arresting them is generally not what enters most people's minds when resolving such situations. I remember kids doing all sorts of stupid stuff in high school including disruptions and refusing to leave. I don't ever recall a police officer being called in to resolve it, much less physically handle and arrest a student like that, despite the fact that one was on campus (pretty much entirely relegated to busting kids for smoking and doing drug searches).

There is no way at all that large chunks of this were appropriate for dakka dakka. In future do not post in this manner

Verging pretty close to rude with how we're approaching the opinions of other users here. One warning.

 motyak wrote:
Verging pretty close to rude with how we're approaching the opinions of other users here. One warning.

My apologies. I just get so annoyed when people make blanket statements with no evidence to back it up whatsoever. I'll tone down the condescension

 motyak wrote:
Verging pretty close to rude with how we're approaching the opinions of other users here. One warning.

yes warnings and bans for people expressing their opinons (must have recruited the mods from the criminal element) and they are corrupt and evil just like the police who apparently are the great scourge of the earth according to some here and pick on all the black people cause they are evil too. Come on people this thread should be locked if it is not going to allow people to discuss the issues and honestly the issues are going to probably cause the thread to be locked.

I am in support of law enforcement. Yes there are corrupt officers, but there are corrupt mods, corrupt business men/women, evil moms, grey knights, etc. Lets have the media go into our corporate america and look at all the evil things people do in the office, or what attorneys are doing that is unethical... nope, we want to put our focus on what the "man" wants us to look at. I bet we will miss the police when we have military law and SS troops enforcing civil unrest! We must have police, which are dwindling down as time goes on cause no one wants to be a police officer anymore.... thus criminals are becoming happy... and elected oficials laugh "Good, Good... ahahaha ahahaha, It was I that allowed this to happen." The rest of us "Its a trap!".

Finally, i dont believe mods and people from other countries should have much of a say with our country. Sorry if that offends, but honestly if you dont live here and or vote etc your opinion is not worth salt in my eyes. kthxbye.

 dusara217 wrote:
I mean, friggin seriously, it's gotten to the point that white people are discriminated against more than black people, in the US. As a white US citizen, I have yet to see a black person receive any gak for the color of his skin, whereas I've almost had my ass handed to me for being white.

...

What?

Would you like to take this opportunity to delete your previous post and pretend you never said that? Because this is so utterly wrong that I honestly have no idea how you can possibly believe it.

*I refuse to say African American. The only time someone is an African American is when somebody was born in Africa and moved to America, and that is an exceptionally rare thing. SCREW YOUR IGNORANT POLITICAL CORRECTNESS!!!

This just gets worse and worse. I mean really, "SCREW YOU GETTING TO DECIDE WHAT LABEL TO GIVE YOURSELF IS PC I GET TO DECIDE WHAT I'M GOING TO CALL YOU" is just unbelievably tasteless. Perhaps you should take a moment to think about what you're saying and who you might be hurting with your words?

Just cleaning up from deleting the post above that was horrifically racist

 Spacewolfoddballz wrote:

 motyak wrote:
Verging pretty close to rude with how we're approaching the opinions of other users here. One warning.

yes warnings and bans for people expressing their opinons (must have recruited the mods from the criminal element) and they are corrupt and evil just like the police who apparently are the great scourge of the earth according to some here and pick on all the black people cause they are evil too. Come on people this thread should be locked if it is not going to allow people to discuss the issues and honestly the issues are going to probably cause the thread to be locked.

I am in support of law enforcement. Yes there are corrupt officers, but there are corrupt mods, corrupt business men/women, evil moms, grey knights, etc. Lets have the media go into our corporate america and look at all the evil things people do in the office, or what attorneys are doing that is unethical... nope, we want to put our focus on what the "man" wants us to look at. I bet we will miss the police when we have military law and SS troops enforcing civil unrest! We must have police, which are dwindling down as time goes on cause no one wants to be a police officer anymore.... thus criminals are becoming happy... and elected oficials laugh "Good, Good... ahahaha ahahaha, It was I that allowed this to happen." The rest of us "Its a trap!".

Finally, i dont believe mods and people from other countries should have much of a say with our country. Sorry if that offends, but honestly if you dont live here and or vote etc your opinion is not worth salt in my eyes. kthxbye.

Hyperbole much?

And do you seriously think that no one from outside the US could possibly have anything to say that might be of interest? Really? I mean really?

On topic, I've always found that if you're polite to people then they'll generally be polite back, and this goes for everyone, not just the police. There has certainly been a historic racial bias in the British police which my family has managed to avoid on account of being white, but as it comes out into the open, hopefully that will change. I certainly haven't heard of anyone trying to flee the country because of it.

 grrrfranky wrote:

 Spacewolfoddballz wrote:

 motyak wrote:
Verging pretty close to rude with how we're approaching the opinions of other users here. One warning.

yes warnings and bans for people expressing their opinons (must have recruited the mods from the criminal element) and they are corrupt and evil just like the police who apparently are the great scourge of the earth according to some here and pick on all the black people cause they are evil too. Come on people this thread should be locked if it is not going to allow people to discuss the issues and honestly the issues are going to probably cause the thread to be locked.

I am in support of law enforcement. Yes there are corrupt officers, but there are corrupt mods, corrupt business men/women, evil moms, grey knights, etc. Lets have the media go into our corporate america and look at all the evil things people do in the office, or what attorneys are doing that is unethical... nope, we want to put our focus on what the "man" wants us to look at. I bet we will miss the police when we have military law and SS troops enforcing civil unrest! We must have police, which are dwindling down as time goes on cause no one wants to be a police officer anymore.... thus criminals are becoming happy... and elected oficials laugh "Good, Good... ahahaha ahahaha, It was I that allowed this to happen." The rest of us "Its a trap!".

Finally, i dont believe mods and people from other countries should have much of a say with our country. Sorry if that offends, but honestly if you dont live here and or vote etc your opinion is not worth salt in my eyes. kthxbye.

Hyperbole much? Not as much as today's media, but I did stay in a holiday in express....

And do you seriously think that no one from outside the US could possibly have anything to say that might be of interest? Really? I mean really? Really

On topic, I've always found that if you're polite to people then they'll generally be polite back, and this goes for everyone, not just the police. There has certainly been a historic racial bias in the British police which my family has managed to avoid on account of being white, but as it comes out into the open, hopefully that will change. I certainly haven't heard of anyone trying to flee the country because of it.

.

OgreChubbs wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
The thing you learn growing up in the city, is that police are not to be trusted with almost anything.

"We must always remember that the police are recruited from the criminal classes." - Gore Vidal

It is not surprising to me to see dramatic actions from African Americans given that they have never been given a fair shake in US society. The fact that the police are too violent is not the fault of the policed. For Christ's sake, there was just a video of a cop caught red handed beating a 12 year old black girl around a class in front of her peers. It's a new world because now, unlike when I grew up, the people can record everything.

You mean that 16 year old girl who refused to leave the class and the teacher supports the cops actions? Maybe try doing what your suppose to and not do bad things and bad things will stop happening to you.

A 16 year old refusing to leave a classroom is not justification for the use of violence in removing her. Yes, she is disrupting the class but that is not a reason to throw her around like that.

Considering the officer was fired for what he did suggests that trying to defend his actions is futile as even his superiors didn't think what he did was right.

Just watch the video, he puts his arm around her neck and pulls her backwards onto the floor. So most likely she hits her head there. He then forcibly drags her away, causing more injuries.

I have seen some disruptive kids in classes when I was at school. I have seen some violently disruptive kids, who would throw chairs at the teacher and try to kick and bite (often these incidents involved children with autism). I also never saw those kids get treated the way this girl was. How it was handled was bad. There is no justification for it.. Her passive resistance did not warrant the level of response.

Good lord. I'm learning a lot about fellow posters from this thread.

sirlynchmob wrote:

DutchWinsAll wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:


What if america still has a racial problem?

There's to many to protest them all, over 100 in the first 5 months of this year, oddly enough they are all justified, should it be pointed out otherwise the rest of their police department will stop working to defend the bad cop. see new york. So when you keep the bad cops, and the good cops defend the bad cops, it really is a problem on a wide scale.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/01/black-americans-killed-by-police-analysis
13% of the population, 29% of the victims of police shootings, 32% confirmed unarmed victims.

And what percentage of violent crime is committed by that 13%?

The local NPR station did a radio report about cop shootings in my city. Over the last 5 years or so, 6 people were killed by police, 4 White, 2 Black. Roughly equal demographics, little bit higher on the White side. On the reverse, over the last 20 years, every cop fatally shot, which was I think 4 over 20 years or so, were all killed by Blacks. You can argue institutional racism in decades past, nowadays, not so much.

No matter the race, it's pretty easy to spot people that could have a potential to be violent criminals. It's generally not people in a shirt and tie, or pants that fit.

Oh by all means, lets look at your city as a representative of the entire US. How about we just look at Frisco, Texas in 2013, they had no murders, none, so based on that one city, no one is ever murdered in the US. my what a peaceful country you live in.

I notice you didn't address the first part of my post.

13% and almost 30% of violent crime. Coincidentally the same percentage of fatal shootings. It's almost as if cops are, gasp, defending themselves. The horror!

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf

If i a 16 year old walked into your house and refused to leave you would not mind the cop throwing them. She was trespassing so removing by force is allowed. She was givin time to leave she refused and brought the physical action onto herself. Hell i had a teahcer chuck a desk at a 16 year old in my class for saying retards should be kiled knowing full well he teacher s child was mentally ill. The rest of us said he had it coming, whcih is Why I think alot of these police problems are coming out. Peoeple are rude refuse to do what they are asked and then get upset with the result from their actions.

OgreChubbs wrote:
If i a 16 year old walked into your house

No. House != classroom.

. . . .lol?

 Peter Wiggin wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

As literally one of the whitest guys I know who has grown up in the South, I find that hilarious. You could be the nicest, cleanest cut, Harvard graduate out there with a squeaky clean record, and I guarantee you all it will take is your skin color and an unfortunately timed choice of clothing to get harassed by police, sometimes not even the latter.

If you dress like a thug and treat cops like dirt, they'll return the favor regardless of your skin tone.

If you observe proper decorum it is VERY unlikely that anything other than a ticket or arrest for outstanding warrant will occur. Oh, and I'm also white as hell and raised in the Deep South.

Don't think you understand what I said there man.

I've seen a black friend who's only crime was wearing a hoodie (and a fairly clean one at that) and was perfectly polite with the officer. Didn't even have the hood up and it was a chilly evening. Still treated like absolute crap. Meanwhile I'm ten feet away with a far rattier hoodie and was ignored. I don't care what anyone says, race is still a very real issue with cops in this country.

And this is still ignoring the fact that perfectly law abiding people are getting harrassed for very superficial reasons. Even if it doesn't end in an arrest or ticket, it's still extremely stressful when they're scared to death trying to figure out if the cop is just a dick or one of the crazies they've heard about on the news that will strip search or shoot them.

I work on an ambulance in a large city and I do see some of the worst people around. The primary people that get this kind of treatment have nothing to do with their race but their attitude. From what I've seen police get burned out from all the ghetto disrespectful attitudes which every race has. Are there race problems? Of course. But that's secondary to people who act in appalling ways.

 curran12 wrote:
Good lord. I'm learning a lot about fellow posters from this thread.

The best part of threads like these is learning who I can ignore all future posts from. It's sort of the "I'm not racist but..." litmus test in face-to-face society.

We have mountains of evidence illustrating institutional, systemic racism across our society. We have legacies of the institution of slavery, and dug-in resistance to its repeal, throughout society. We have reams of studies that indicate our criminal justice system has an unfortunate tendency to discriminate against people of color.

And the idea that one "should be nice around cops, or they'll kill you" means people have internalized, and accepted (!) the fact that we live in a police state.

 curran12 wrote:
Good lord. I'm learning a lot about fellow posters from this thread.

This. Dear god this thread is a disaster.

 Peregrine wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
Good lord. I'm learning a lot about fellow posters from this thread.

This. Dear god this thread is a disaster.

It ties in nicely with the "sexual assault by the police" thread, allows for quick confirmation of the list.

 Spacewolfoddballz wrote:

 motyak wrote:
Verging pretty close to rude with how we're approaching the opinions of other users here. One warning.

yes warnings and bans for people expressing their opinons (must have recruited the mods from the criminal element)

Mods don't have to allow unfettered opinion and speech...

and they are corrupt and evil just like the police who apparently are the great scourge of the earth according to some here and pick on all the black people cause they are evil too. Come on people this thread should be locked if it is not going to allow people to discuss the issues and honestly the issues are going to probably cause the thread to be locked.

I am in support of law enforcement. Yes there are corrupt officers, but there are corrupt mods, corrupt business men/women, evil moms, grey knights, etc. Lets have the media go into our corporate america and look at all the evil things people do in the office, or what attorneys are doing that is unethical... nope, we want to put our focus on what the "man" wants us to look at. I bet we will miss the police when we have military law and SS troops enforcing civil unrest!

Where on earth are you getting this stuff?

We must have police, which are dwindling down as time goes on cause no one wants to be a police officer anymore.... thus criminals are becoming happy...

Do you have any data for that claim..as every available data source points out that violent crime at its lowest levels in decades...and I certainly can't find anything on the numbers of law enforcement officers *decreasing*.

Finally, i dont believe mods and people from other countries should have much of a say with our country. Sorry if that offends, but honestly if you dont live here and or vote etc your opinion is not worth salt in my eyes. kthxbye.

Then don't discuss it on an internationally used message board? I mean...really...

OgreChubbs wrote:
If i a 16 year old walked into your house and refused to leave you would not mind the cop throwing them. She was trespassing so removing by force is allowed. She was givin time to leave she refused and brought the physical action onto herself. Hell i had a teahcer chuck a desk at a 16 year old in my class for saying retards should be kiled knowing full well he teacher s child was mentally ill. The rest of us said he had it coming, whcih is Why I think alot of these police problems are coming out. Peoeple are rude refuse to do what they are asked and then get upset with the result from their actions.

A classroom is not a house. Full stop.

She was required by law to be in the classroom originally, lets not forget that.

it wasn't until some sort of incident happened that they tried to remove her. However, these things happen every day across the country, and are resolved in pretty much every other case without throwing desks, arresting teenage students, and tossing people around.

Kinda funny that the word "race" is still used in English.

Anyway, it isn't just the US, stigmatization of black people by the police happens in Europe too.
If I look at who's stopped by the police for a random check in a Paris train station, he/she will be black 90% of the time.

I appologize to the mod(s) and my fellow dakka people, i got irritated and it was late at night when i posted...

I am not going to bother to clarify my position or thoughts i know what i tried to say and it came out blah, i thought i was stating some points for food for thought by being "overly above board." to give some food for thought... but, i think it really was not fruitful.

I do value everyone's opinion ( i dont have to accept their opinions, but i do value and should hear them out ), I just got hit wrong... along with some personal issues at the moment (not an excuse).

Therefore i take ownership of anything i said that may have offended people and I will stay out of these topic/forums from here on out.

I have pupils refuse to leave the room when asked all the time, that's what happens when they get into a strop. It's never crossed my mind that a policeman is needed to knock them to the floor and manhandle them out. It's just not necessary to use force against a pupil unless they're physically attacking you or another pupil.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
I have pupils refuse to leave the room when asked all the time, that's what happens when they get into a strop. It's never crossed my mind that a policeman is needed to knock them to the floor and manhandle them out. It's just not necessary to use force against a pupil unless they're physically attacking you or another pupil.

We agree for what may be the first time ever.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
I have pupils refuse to leave the room when asked all the time, that's what happens when they get into a strop. It's never crossed my mind that a policeman is needed to knock them to the floor and manhandle them out. It's just not necessary to use force against a pupil unless they're physically attacking you or another pupil.

This. It's a bit like how when a parent says they needed to kick the crap out of their kid for discipline. All it tells you is that the parent knows no other way of maintaining control without physically assaulting someone. It makes them a poor parent/teacher, as opposed to the kid being so much at fault.

Half of black millennials know victim of police violence

For those not clicking on the link it is a decade long research study that found quite a disparity between different ethnic groups views/experiences of/with the police, though most still believe the police are there to protect people.