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I'll typically reserve things like Chaos Cultists or an Arch Demagogue's Disciple squad (the demagoge himself is an Independent Character unlike his loyalist counterpart), to prevent giving up first blood.

Daemons can also use deep striking as a way of moving up the board quicker, thanks to Icons. If I want Slaanesh Soul Grinders into combat, deep striking them next to a unit of Seekers with an Icon of Slaanesh puts them in a better position than footslogging up the board.

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
Lascannons suck eh? Please tell that to my Tri Las predator and my slaaneshi obliterators who in the case of the oblits alternate between plasma Cannons and lascannons

Okay, I will tell them that. I don't fear those units at all.

I believe reserves are a great asset but have to be done in moderation and built around to be done right (hence drop pod) The list really has to be built around controlling your reserves with buffs like +1 to reserve rolls or rules that dictate when and where the unit comes in. Its a style of play that needs to be the center of attention and while yes it can have awesome effects on the field it can also get cleaned up easy. I know if im going against a drop pod heavy reserve list and take first turn, ill shoot at whats on the table of coarse and go for the tabling but if the opponent gets those drop pods down and hits me hard that next turn, well all I have to do is weather it and move away because now he is almost completely static. Sure the initial attack hurt but eh now its a complete waste of points unless he happens to need the objective he landed on to score, which is by chance of the draw (or roll) in maelstrom. I can easily move away and play around it to kill whatever came down or ignore it. Most things that drop are not that resilient after they shoot their main strike.

Its an all or nothing shot that falls short alot of times.

As for lascannons, haha nope I stopped relying on those along time ago. The only time I shoot a las is with my obliterators and that is only because I have nothing better to shoot with at the time. (or if I happen to run a landraider for fluff, and thats only because chaos doesnt get a crusader) Really its gimped because its one shot, the S9 and AP2 are nice but....one shot. Twinlink makes it somewhat bearable but still nothing to write home about. I find special rules to be much more effective, haywire, armourbane, smash, things of that nature are cheaper and offer more versatility. Also with so much S D running around the lascannon has been far overshadowed. If you take predators or normal Landraiders sure you shoot las but only cause you dont have much else.

Now note tho that this is a competitive frame of view.
If you are running las for fun or fluff games shine on!

Also slaanesh obliterators are not competitive at all, and easily die to S8 ID, so not alot of people are scared of them. Your tri las pred though is good Anti armor but more for semi competitive where you are not facing GMC and SH

 Matthew wrote:
We've all seen the glorious picture of a Kroot player winning over a White Scars player by scouting onto his table edge, denying him a proper deploy zone. Now, is this a viable tactic? Holding your stuff in reserves to attack the enemys weakest point, that is. Say you have one or two small units like Scouts or Cultists deployed to hold the line, and then after one or two turns, your TWC/Bikers/Rough Riders head out and slaughter everything! Is this smart, or...?

Highly usable strategy. In fact I would go so far as to say that it is my preferred strategy. Link to why I think so.

The fun part of this is of course that people who bring netlists and attempt to overwhelm you early and often with math-Hammer forces have no answer for a lack of targets. There simply is nothing in the game that handles THAT problem. Most Generals prefer going first. I also find this to be a mistake if attempting null deployment most of the time. Only a very small subsection of armies really benefit from going first when they Null Deploy.

There are not infinite turns. there are not infinite inches to run to or from. So in the end, the skirmish represented in 40K probably takes all of five minutes in real time and is a sudden and violent thing. The unfortunate general who shows up and overcommits simply gets stomped before he knows its happening (to put a fun spin on it). The board looks like he's dominating. people who are casually walking by look and see you getting stomped. Only problem is... you're not.

By all means use the clock and terrain as your very best of friends.

Martel732 wrote:

 Clan Lykos wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Reserves suck, because units not on the board aren't contributing as targets or with their output.

That's the point. Some units don't want to get shot before they have a chance to make an impact. If they aren't able to put out optimal damage with their opponent on the other side of the table it is definitely a tactic worth considering.

So you leave 66% of your list to absorb 100% of the enemy firepower? Okay. Keep using reserves.

You seem to have missed the point of my post entirely. The unit that is being held in reserves would not be able to contribute effectively. Depending on the unit, I may not want to risk it being shot off the table before it can impact my opponent's force. And now that I don't have as much of my force on the table, I can more effectively use terrain to block line of sight to further neuter enemy firepower. There are certainly situations where reserves are viable.

Dont listen to anyone who tells you that they CAN bring 100% of their firepower to bear on the percentage you deployed. Lol. It's statements like that which exhibit a total lack of imagination.

Here's the reality check: unless your army has unlimited range on all units, you couldnt bring it all to bear if you tried. Not only that but: terrain. For goodness sake, what kind of idiot do you have to ASSUME someone is in order to think they wont use any!

Read that article. Use reserves judiciously. Extremely useful strategy. If you are fortunate enough to end up playing someone who scoffs readily about this strategy, you are going to beat them. That simple.

Martel732 wrote:

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
Lascannons suck eh? Please tell that to my Tri Las predator and my slaaneshi obliterators who in the case of the oblits alternate between plasma Cannons and lascannons

Okay, I will tell them that. I don't fear those units at all.

Then you really have no idea how scary those units can be

 Jancoran wrote:
Dont listen to anyone who tells you that they CAN bring 100% of their firepower to bear on the percentage you deployed. Lol. It's statements like that which exhibit a total lack of imagination.

Here's the reality check: unless your army has unlimited range on all units, you couldnt bring it all to bear if you tried. Not only that but: terrain. For goodness sake, what kind of idiot do you have to ASSUME someone is in order to think they wont use any!

Read that article. Use reserves judiciously. Extremely useful strategy. If you are fortunate enough to end up playing someone who scoffs readily about this strategy, you are going to beat them. That simple.

I get many of my victories from people using reserves that should not have.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
Lascannons suck eh? Please tell that to my Tri Las predator and my slaaneshi obliterators who in the case of the oblits alternate between plasma Cannons and lascannons

Okay, I will tell them that. I don't fear those units at all.

Then you really have no idea how scary those units can be

No, pretty sure I know what they can do. Which is jack and gak compared to what I am used to taking on.

In my opinion, drop pods (or anything else that allows you to come from reserve first turn) is good if used correctly. I would not recommend normal deep strike or anything else of the sort tough. I just don't like it.

 Krissp wrote:
In my opinion, drop pods (or anything else that allows you to come from reserve first turn) is good if used correctly. I would not recommend normal deep strike or anything else of the sort tough. I just don't like it.

Out of curiosity, is that for fear of losing units? Now that you can premeasure, the risk is negligible at worst. You have the option of going ballsy but don't have to exercise that option (though I generally exercize that option because I'm not there not to lose).

I cannot speak to every situation universally (obviously) but it seems that with pre-measuring and the change to the Deep Strike table, the downsides are somewhat more palatable than they were before (again, not that this ever really stopped me buuuut...)

I do note that deep Striking my Raptors turned out to be better as an option rarely used than a modis operandi though. That's more a function of the overall strategy though and wanting to absolutely saturate in turn 2 and 3.

Warp Talons for example, though pretty limited in their appeal, come in smaller units and can do work when placed well. They are so fast and deadly that they can alight out of sight and then gouge something important. Their blinding ability is nice against some forces. Orks in particular don't like it too much, nor do necrons.

anywho with pre-measuring and the deep strike table, i am pretty willing to risk it.