Codex: Orks lack of invulnerable saves

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**MrFlutterPie**

Vankraken wrote:
I have a few hair brain theories about the Ork codex but it basically comes down to the following.
1. GW doesn't have any fans of the Orks working in the codex department so we get treated like the chaff for the "good guys" to mow down.
2. Somebody at GW got the bad touch from some Killa Kanz and Nob Bikers in 5th edition. They cleaned the nid guts off it and proceeded to swing away at the Kanz, got tired of beating up the Kanz, and ended up gave a minor beating to the Nob Bikers.
3. Somebody got mad about how long it took to kill a blob of boyz so they wanted a better way to speed up the process and clear the table. The new Mob Rule was born.
4. Somebody wrote "Random" on the design board (or scratch paper, whatever they do their brain storming on) and just went with it, never questioning why they wanted random or if they should have. Orks continue to have silly rolls for dumb things that other armies just have as standard.
5. This was design by committee but most of the ideas where developed independently from each other and in the last minute they threw a lot of the ideas together, typed it up, and didn't really put much thought into interactions. Stikkbomb Chukka and all Orks having Stikkbombs being a major oversight. Cybork not stacking with a Painboy being another.
6. GW's modeling department put out new Mek Guns, Painboyz, Meganobz and said to make some good rules to push those sales. In the final days of throwing pages into the codex binder before the deadline GW walked in with the Gorka/Morka/Thisistoocleantobemadebyanorkanaut and said to make up rules for it. The first draft was typed up in 15 minutes, thrown into the binder, and off to the presses it went.
7. The inclusion of the Ork Horde Detachment was later in the design cycle so somebody boring came up with the Hammer of Wrath idea and everyone just shrugged and threw it into the binder. Marketing added the 3rd HQ and troop requirement to fit more Painboyz into the army.
8. Same person made the rules for the Lucky Stikk, Tankbustas, Warbikers, Bully Boyz, and Blitz Brigade rules. Mork bless him for he is the real MVP of this codex.
9. 1-3 and 5-8 might be completely incorrect and they just made a list of the follow. 6= Buff, 5= Quality of life improvement, 4 = Side grade, 3 = No change, 2 = Simplify, 1 = Nerf. Took each entry and rolled the die 3 times and took the actions that where rolled. Tankbustas rolled , Killa Kanz rolled .

This so much!

I feel that the codex was both rushed and written by a committee. It's like they ran out of time and management said "just ship it!" Strange rule interactions such as stikkbombz chukka and Grotsnink having cybork body listed as wargear show that the left hand didn't know what the right was doing. There are some brilliant things in there like cheap outflanking buggies and warbikes but there is so many other problems *cough all our walkers*. Heck where is all our art work in the book? Just seems rushed by a group of uncaring writers.

**HoundsofDemos**

The new guns are cool and orcs do have one of the best AA guns in the game.

**Dakkafang Dreggrim**

HoundsofDemos wrote:
The new guns are cool and orcs do have one of the best AA guns in the game.

Until your Oppoent says jink. It's 1 shot.

And any flyer based army will just kill the mek guns first or hit it with a leader based attack.

I've never had the Traktor kannons usefull as anti air other than a fire magnet 2nd turn.

**TheCustomLime**

Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
HoundsofDemos wrote:
The new guns are cool and orcs do have one of the best AA guns in the game.

Until your Oppoent says jink. It's 1 shot.

And any flyer based army will just kill the mek guns first or hit it with a leader based attack.

I've never had the Traktor kannons usefull as anti air other than a fire magnet 2nd turn.

So, it's the Ork equivalent of a Vindicator? Powerful on paper but in practice it's pretty much useless most of the time.

**Grimskul**

The lack of invulns. in our army is one of many glaring oversights in our codex. The lack of variety concerning CC weapons for a CC-oriented race is another sore point they haven't addressed, nor the inexplicable nerfing of fluffy upgrades like the deff rolla or RPJ. It's sad to see such a phoned in codex, its still serviceable but its definitely not up to par and requires a serious reworking.

**Vankraken**

Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
HoundsofDemos wrote:
The new guns are cool and orcs do have one of the best AA guns in the game.

Until your Oppoent says jink. It's 1 shot.

And any flyer based army will just kill the mek guns first or hit it with a leader based attack.

I've never had the Traktor kannons usefull as anti air other than a fire magnet 2nd turn.

A jinking flyer is an ineffective one so its still a win. Also shooting at a mek gun crew is rather silly with their dirt cheap T7 wounds. Leadership is an issue but a standard mek boy thrown in there can at least bump it up to 7. The bigger reason I feel that you don't see a lot of Traktor Kannons is that tankbustas snapfiring at flyers is just as effective with their str 8 rokkits.

Your signature though.... Deathskulls are the most proppa of Orks because we appreciate good looting as well as a proppa fight. Dem other Orks is just green with envy from all this nice bit of kit we found.

**HoundsofDemos**

Orks don't have a lot of variety in melee but the two that they do have are pretty good. I would like to see the big choppa get AP4, or AP3

Challenges hurt hidden klaws a bit but at least nobs have two wounds unlike most sergeant characters.

**Grimskul**

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Orks don't have a lot of variety in melee but the two that they do have are pretty good. I would like to see the big choppa get AP4, or AP3

Challenges hurt hidden klaws a bit but at least nobs have two wounds unlike most sergeant characters.

Big Choppas would be a lot cooler if their profile reflected the user's own strength and ability rather than just having flat stats like this:

Big Choppa (Boyz) S:User+2 AP:5, Melee

Big Choppa (Nobz): S:User +2 AP:4, Melee, Rending

Big Choppa (Warboss) S: User+2 AP:3, Melee, Rending

This is assuming of course boyz squads could upgrade to have one rather than a big shoota or rokkit launcha.

**HoundsofDemos**

I kinda like that and it's fairly balanced even a warboss is only I4 he's still going last against most HQs that are combat dedicated.

**geargutz**

while i do get pretty depressed over the lack of love towards my orks, i have started thinking that since im commited to play orks in this edition, ill divide my games in two varients.
1. the pick me up games with friends and new acuantences. this is were ill bring out the "32 killa kan" list or "nothin but warkopta and defkopta" list. it allows for me and my opponent to have a fun game. ill probably lose but we will have a good time.
2. the games that prepare me for tournaments. whether developing my list for a tourny or wanting to have a win for ounce in a while, i look at tactics boards and try out any little shred of cheese sent our way. we have decent formations here and there, and good units that are worth spamming.
ill keep this up until we get the repesct we deserv from gw. with this recent montka campaign release it gives me hope that some future campaign book might give a decurian and formations that can heal the demage our codex did.

**Murrdox**

Vankraken wrote:
Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
HoundsofDemos wrote:
The new guns are cool and orcs do have one of the best AA guns in the game.

Until your Oppoent says jink. It's 1 shot.

And any flyer based army will just kill the mek guns first or hit it with a leader based attack.

I've never had the Traktor kannons usefull as anti air other than a fire magnet 2nd turn.

A jinking flyer is an ineffective one so its still a win. Also shooting at a mek gun crew is rather silly with their dirt cheap T7 wounds. Leadership is an issue but a standard mek boy thrown in there can at least bump it up to 7. The bigger reason I feel that you don't see a lot of Traktor Kannons is that tankbustas snapfiring at flyers is just as effective with their str 8 rokkits.

Your signature though.... Deathskulls are the most proppa of Orks because we appreciate good looting as well as a proppa fight. Dem other Orks is just green with envy from all this nice bit of kit we found.

Agreed. I've used Tracktor Kannons to GREAT effect against Tyranids and Necrons. And if their main use is as a fire magnet for your enemy, that's great! They take a lot of killing, and their cost is cheap, so chances are your opponent is wasting firepower trying to take them out. The only thing you have to be careful of is Assault, since a lone space marine has a decent enough chance to be able to kill the entire battery all by himself!

**Franarok**

The ork problem is that most of CG and the army is melee oriented (both in codex and lore) but usually lose vs the rest of dedicated melee units/characters on the game.

Yeah, a Warboss could sounds great on paper, but any space marine CG focused on melee is going to feth him.

Same with an unit of nobz, most of dedicated melee units will kill most of nobs before they hit.

And there are also a lack of melee weapons choices: just a "fist" and an AP4 weapon.... Poor, really poor

Aaand very lack of armors and decent choices for the CG.

No mention the lack of invulnerable saves. not jsut the cG, also on units like meganobz.

Orks are melee army but a melee MC feth them a lot. Not inv save on meganobz hurst a lot, since sent them vs a MC will hurt us a lot where a group of shield termies surelly will save something.

Similar with the warboss...is melee BUT we cant send him vs msot of melee characters. The only option is the megaarmor...but then is slow.

Most of ork players were waiting for the new codex and specting a neccessary buff......just to recive the actual codex.....