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 Vitali Advenil wrote:
Just throwing in my hat, I'll take newcrons over oldcrons any day. Oldcrons were basically just mecha-tyranids with somehow even less personality. Sure, they were kinda spoopy, but they never seemed super-spoopy, mainly because they're robots. I dunno if it's a personal thing, but robots don't give me that creepy factor that organic things do. Sure, they can be intimidating, but when I think of creepy, I think of Silent Hill, PT, or the kids from the Polar Express movie- y'know, things that are imitating life but aren't quite there.

Newcrons still give people the chance to be spoopy space terminators, but they can also add their own fluff, which I adore. If I built a cron army I'd probably go with a mix of "kill everything" and some occult stuff- paint them all black with deep, purple markings here and there. Have them missing limbs or heads, big chunks blown out of them. I dunno, almost like zombie-crons?

I just don't get the love for the oldcrons. Heck, even the new fluff I find dry compared to Space Marines, Orks, Chaos, or Guard. Maybe it's because I never found them creepy to begin with, but newcrons give people a chance to make their armies unique rather than another blob of gray death people.

Well, the writing in the 3rd ed book was better, and had a deep psychological horror vibe. The pariahs were a brilliant concept, and in terms of aesthetics they were quite a simple army to paint. Not too garish, and just the right amount of detail.
Newcrons...well, they aren't that garish, but the Overlords look pretty silly now, with their turkey crests and all that ornamentation.

Wut?

I mean...

Wat?

Too blinged? Oldcrons were "less blinged"?



Versus these guys?

When I, and most other people for that matter, say oldcrons, I mean 3rd ed necrons.
The assholetep model is from second ed. It doesn't count.
It also looks terrible.

For me, this is a proper necron lord.

Aaaaand you can still field that one or make your own. It isn't my fault you won't put a modicum of effort into your HQ. I suck at conversions and I made FIVE separate characters.

See? Generic Overlord, Orikan, Obyron, Nemesor, and a Vindicare (because I could).

Not every Marine Commander goes into battle without a helmet, and not every Necron with higher thoughts is blinged out.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
When I, and most other people for that matter, say oldcrons, I mean 3rd ed necrons.
The assholetep model is from second ed. It doesn't count.
It also looks terrible.

For me, this is a proper necron lord.

Well, you latecomers don't get opinions, because you slept in.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
When I, and most other people for that matter, say oldcrons, I mean 3rd ed necrons.
The assholetep model is from second ed. It doesn't count.
It also looks terrible.

For me, this is a proper necron lord.

Well, you latecomers don't get opinions, because you slept in.

I am willing to accept gaudy necron lords if they bring back electric guitar blastmasters

The newer Necron background's like the Stir Wibs prequels, suffering from a million problems big and small. The one that frustrates me the most, tho, is the fact that they're now a race that's conquered scarcity, death and internal politics. They shouldn't be on the tabletop! War is silly for a race like that!

The sad thing is that this was all done, ostensibly, to give individual Necron armies "personality," but kept them shackled to the same hierarchy-of-consciousness concept that was (despite many people's poor memory) already present in the 3rd Ed background. So, they lost their atmosphere, their purpose and their menace, all so Trazzy can lead whole armies looking for artifacts - a concept that makes as little sense as anything else in this half-cocked revision.

Good LORD, Alan Merrit is terrible at doing 40K.

Trazyn is the single greatest character added in modern fluff.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Trazyn is the single greatest character added in modern fluff.

There has been no greater truth uttered in the history of Mankind, nor will there ever be.

 Lexington wrote:
The newer Necron background's like the Stir Wibs prequels, suffering from a million problems big and small. The one that frustrates me the most, tho, is the fact that they're now a race that's conquered scarcity, death and internal politics. They shouldn't be on the tabletop! War is silly for a race like that!

Yes. The irony is that the more "human" Necrons, the ones that supposedly have more personality, do not have believable motivations. "Restore the dynasties!" Whatever for?

Alcibiades wrote:

 Lexington wrote:
The newer Necron background's like the Stir Wibs prequels, suffering from a million problems big and small. The one that frustrates me the most, tho, is the fact that they're now a race that's conquered scarcity, death and internal politics. They shouldn't be on the tabletop! War is silly for a race like that!

Yes. The irony is that the more "human" Necrons, the ones that supposedly have more personality, do not have believable motivations. "Restore the dynasties!" Whatever for?

If you were very successful at what you did, went to sleep one night and then woke up the next morning to find that you overslept and everything you'd built up was in ruins... would you just give up and kill yourself or would you try to take back what you'd once had? "Restore the Dynasties" seems like the first thing you'd want to do. "Oh well, we tried, but I guess I should just go back to sleep or get a job at Space Best Buy" wouldn't be a believable motivation.

Sounds like the Silent King went off into a self imposed exile, content to let his race basically sleep forever... but then ran into the 'Nids between galaxies. He realized what an absolute threat they could be and returned to wake up his race. "Oh no you don't. This is MY galaxy." The Necrons are being woken up to fight the 'Nids. Individual Lords and Crypteks might have their own agendas, but ultimately the need to reestablish as much power as possible makes a ton of sense. Even bro-fisting with humanity makes sense in the context of an alliance to fight the 'Nid menace. Once the 'Nids are dealt with, the 'Crons are likely to either immediately turn on their new found allies or simply go back to sleep, to await the next galaxy threatening menace.

I actually like the new background. It makes the Necrons more relate-able to a player in a way that an army like the 'Nids can't be.

 Suspicious Pancake wrote:
So i had an old friend who plays Necrons and my knowledge on the story was they were soul less slaves to the C'Tan. With the new codex out i have to say their models look fantastic but i see a lot of people bashing the new fluff. From my limited understanding the necrons now have free will or something? What's causing people to not like the new direction?

tl;dr: TruCrons weren't a race, but a thousandfold weapon for the C'tan, after voluntarily extincting themselves, betrayed by The Deceiver, now aiming for the destruction of all life, soulless automatons driven by hate alone.

GW realized that this and the concept behind it (wut, a race not wanting to achieve global dominination wat iz diz!) was too complicated for people to understand, so they turned NewCrons into robot SPAIZE MAHREEEENS to cater to their target audience.

 Sigvatr wrote:
...so they turned NewCrons into robot SPAIZE MAHREEEENS to cater to their target audience.

lolwut? Where do you get your information? Necrons are Tomb Kings in space.

 Breotan wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
...so they turned NewCrons into robot SPAIZE MAHREEEENS to cater to their target audience.

lolwut? Where do you get your information? Necrons are Tomb Kings in space.

So what you're saying is that they are Thousand Suns?

Sigvatr has... issues... regarding the Necrons, lol.

Clearly. I've been using them since 4th and still like the new fluff.

It's like everyone forgets that the old codex was vague enough to allow others to bring personality to and through Necron Lords...

Need I remind everyone of Inquisitor Ralei from Xenology?

 King Pariah wrote:
It's like everyone forgets that the old codex was vague enough to allow others to bring personality to and through Necron Lords...

Need I remind everyone of Inquisitor Ralei from Xenology?

Yeah, that guy was awesome.
Xenology was pretty brilliant. It starts off as just another one of those encyclopedias on a fictional world sort of thing, but then it develops an actual plot.
I love that book.

 Suspicious Pancake wrote:
So i had an old friend who plays Necrons and my knowledge on the story was they were soul less slaves to the C'Tan. With the new codex out i have to say their models look fantastic but i see a lot of people bashing the new fluff. From my limited understanding the necrons now have free will or something? What's causing people to not like the new direction?

Personal preference really, most of the other Codices/Armies have their own flavor, other than Tyranids, their societies have some type humanized government form. I enjoyed the fact that Necrons were tricked and controlled by super beings that can drink stars, and the Necrotyr had no choice because the had no souls any longer (drank by the C'Tan most likely). I loved the enigmatic phase out, they teleport in blow poop up and tie up your armies, while off the battle table they were doing something more sinister behind the scenes, and when they took too many casualties poof gone. They could not be allies because to court a Star God was impossible. 4 gods who killed 100's of other C'Tan to attain immense god powers over reality. The fluff just had more appeal to me.

 Lexington wrote:
The newer Necron background's like the Stir Wibs prequels, suffering from a million problems big and small. The one that frustrates me the most, tho, is the fact that they're now a race that's conquered scarcity, death and internal politics. They shouldn't be on the tabletop! War is silly for a race like that!

To be fair previously they were controlled by the C'tan who were a race that never had scarcity, death or internal politics until they were contacted by the Necrontyr and decided that what they'd been doing previously for millions or billions of years was boring.

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:

 Suspicious Pancake wrote:
So i had an old friend who plays Necrons and my knowledge on the story was they were soul less slaves to the C'Tan. With the new codex out i have to say their models look fantastic but i see a lot of people bashing the new fluff. From my limited understanding the necrons now have free will or something? What's causing people to not like the new direction?

Personal preference really, most of the other Codices/Armies have their own flavor, other than Tyranids, their societies have some type humanized government form. I enjoyed the fact that Necrons were tricked and controlled by super beings that can drink stars, and the Necrotyr had no choice because the had no souls any longer (drank by the C'Tan most likely). I loved the enigmatic phase out, they teleport in blow poop up and tie up your armies, while off the battle table they were doing something more sinister behind the scenes, and when they took too many casualties poof gone. They could not be allies because to court a Star God was impossible. 4 gods who killed 100's of other C'Tan to attain immense god powers over reality. The fluff just had more appeal to me.

In terms of story telling, nobody is denying how VERY awesome the 3rd Lore was. That said, even with C'Tan fighting each other occasionally, Necron vs Necron fights just made little sense, and Overlords still had little in the way of personality. If we got the special characters we had now but only specifically to the old lore, they would just be, well, Overlords with random abilities.

Hence why the ultimate compromise is some Overlords gaining their freedom somehow (Anrakyr and Trazyn and Kutlakh for good reference) and fight for independence, while others won't (Nemesor doesn't KNOW any better, really).

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
If we got the special characters we had now but only specifically to the old lore, they would just be, well, Overlords with random abilities.

...which would be fine and fitting to the lore. The C'Tan created the Necron by consuming the Necrontyr's souls and they designed their new bodies. The C'tan could have easily created different types of Necron Lords, fit for different purposes - some Anti-Psyker Lords, some melee-focused Lords, some anti-armor focused Lords etc. Even moreso, the C'tan could even now alter the Necrons. They easily possess the power to do so, being the strongest things in the 40k (corporeal) universe, and instead of recycling destroyed Necrons to make new...but same...but diferent Necrons Warriors, they could e.g. alter the restoration process of individual tomb worlds to create new types of Warriors more suited for specific purposes.

Keep in mind that the Necrons are not a race, they are a millionfold weapon. They have no souls, no conscience or mind of their own, they are extended weapon of the C'tan. While you could not easily alter a whole race like the Eldar or mankind, Necrons effectively are robots that could be easily altered on the fly. The techonology is there.

That isn't CHARACTER though. Anrakyr would just be a Warscythe Overlord with an ability to use vehicles. Yeah he was designed by the Void Dragon, but that isn't character. You'd have even LESS reason to use him, as you don't even have a connection to the character.

That's why having someone like the Stormlord under C'Tan command would be scarier.

It is a great codex and crons are impossible to table. Seriously a 13pt model that is t4, gets 4+ and a 4+++ reanimate protocol and has a gun that always glance and wounds on a 6s.

I just Don't Understand why they are whinning about.

The biggest issue people have with newcrons plus is it took the fundamental story of the necrons and flipped it on it's head. Necrons were a slave race to nigh unstoppable gods. Then they changed it to the necrons were the enslavers of pitiful gods.

It was just too different. It would be like making space marines no longer genetically modified humans and turning them into mutants in power armour.

Necrons were going to be my go to army. Not Tau. I loved them in DoW DC and wanted to start an army of them. Then I seen their new lore (before I had money for army) and my hopes were dashed.


Completely stupid. One of the biggest threats neutralized because two squabbling lords dislike their robo hairstyles and go to war over it depriving them of their unity of purpose and immense threat.

Now the crons are a joke of their former selves. Even becoming allies in fiction with space marines. -_-

Necrons are the Kylo Ren of the game now. Trying to be as cool as all the other armies released before them, but falling flat and losing what unique aspects they did have. You will never be as cool as Spezz Marines or popular as Eldar by trying to be them.



So then I went with my next choice. Tau, the least pants on head slowed faction.

 Sigvatr wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
If we got the special characters we had now but only specifically to the old lore, they would just be, well, Overlords with random abilities.

...which would be fine and fitting to the lore. The C'Tan created the Necron by consuming the Necrontyr's souls and they designed their new bodies. The C'tan could have easily created different types of Necron Lords, fit for different purposes - some Anti-Psyker Lords, some melee-focused Lords, some anti-armor focused Lords etc. Even moreso, the C'tan could even now alter the Necrons. They easily possess the power to do so, being the strongest things in the 40k (corporeal) universe, and instead of recycling destroyed Necrons to make new...but same...but diferent Necrons Warriors, they could e.g. alter the restoration process of individual tomb worlds to create new types of Warriors more suited for specific purposes.

Keep in mind that the Necrons are not a race, they are a millionfold weapon. They have no souls, no conscience or mind of their own, they are extended weapon of the C'tan. While you could not easily alter a whole race like the Eldar or mankind, Necrons effectively are robots that could be easily altered on the fly. The techonology is there.

Except for the fact that this version of the Necrons only ever existed on the inside of your own head...

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
That isn't CHARACTER though.

Of course not, as Necrons having "character" directly conflicts with the lore. There is no reason for the Necrons to have any character, that's the misunderstanding most people have and the main reason for why GW decided to simplify the lore. People see Necrons and immediately think of them as being a race of robots with leaders etc. - and that simply isn't the case. The Necrons aren't a race. The Necrontyr were a race. The Necrons aren't. They are completely devoid of anything that would define a living being or a race. They have no culture, they have no life, no souls, no traditions, no settlements, nothing. The Necrons are soulless automatons, mindless robots created by the C'tan. They are a weapon, nothing more. That's what a lot of people don't and didn't understand - they always expect each race to have a hierarchy, leaders, citizens, a home and so on. Necrons aren't a race. They are a weapon. C'tan are a race...I guess. Saying that Necrons are a race is like saying Bolters, Blasters or Power Weapons are a race...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Filch wrote:
It is a great codex and crons are impossible to table. Seriously a 13pt model that is t4, gets 4+ and a 4+++ reanimate protocol and has a gun that always glance and wounds on a 6s.

I just Don't Understand why they are whinning about.

This is the 40k background forum...

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:
To be fair previously they were controlled by the C'tan who were a race that never had scarcity, death or internal politics until they were contacted by the Necrontyr and decided that what they'd been doing previously for millions or billions of years was boring.

Of course the C'Tan were motivated by scarcity, death and internal politics. That's their whole story. They fed on a finite resource (suns), found an even more finite resource (alive things) that they liked better, then fell into war between each other over an even more finite resource (themselves), killed each other off almost entirely, then went to sleep because their resources were threatened. Now they're back, looking to re-establish their dominance over the living to create a galaxy-wide farm of living things to fuel themselves.

The new Necrons don't really have any of that. They don't need resources to live, they don't have a finite lifespan, and hierarchy is baked into their bodies. Aside from kicking interlopers off of their lawns, they don't really need war, because they don't have the basic biological drives that necessitate expansion. There's the Silent King and his anti-Tyranid campaign, but that doesn't really make sense in the first place (grueling wars of attrition don't tend to leave you in a great position to face new threats). Heck, even if it did, doesn't that just make the Necrons the slave-minded zombie army all united into one purpose that people now say the 3rd Ed Necrons were?

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
If we got the special characters we had now but only specifically to the old lore, they would just be, well, Overlords with random abilities.

...which would be fine and fitting to the lore. The C'Tan created the Necron by consuming the Necrontyr's souls and they designed their new bodies. The C'tan could have easily created different types of Necron Lords, fit for different purposes - some Anti-Psyker Lords, some melee-focused Lords, some anti-armor focused Lords etc. Even moreso, the C'tan could even now alter the Necrons. They easily possess the power to do so, being the strongest things in the 40k (corporeal) universe, and instead of recycling destroyed Necrons to make new...but same...but diferent Necrons Warriors, they could e.g. alter the restoration process of individual tomb worlds to create new types of Warriors more suited for specific purposes.

Keep in mind that the Necrons are not a race, they are a millionfold weapon. They have no souls, no conscience or mind of their own, they are extended weapon of the C'tan. While you could not easily alter a whole race like the Eldar or mankind, Necrons effectively are robots that could be easily altered on the fly. The techonology is there.

Except for the fact that this version of the Necrons only ever existed on the inside of your own head...

And my head, and dozens of other Necron players heads I've met, infact, maybe it's your head canon that could be wrong?

Not that any head canon can be wrong, big universe and all that.

Anyway, I went unbound with my crons, basically no characters in the whole force, with the exception of the nightbringer shard, everything else is still taken from Codex Necrons, just no HQ slots used.