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There are individual planets in the IoM that aren't even famous that could destroy the ME Universe by themselves.

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
There are individual planets in the IoM that aren't even famous that could destroy the ME Universe by themselves.

as mentioned before, the warp doesn't apply to the ME universe, This means that it would make it rather difficult for the races of 40k to get anywhere, let alone individual planets. and Depending on the type of world your referring to, would it be able to sustain a total war against a universe with greater mobility while in its own universe, as well as control of many planets. Even the IoM planet has greater firepower (which I'm sure it does.) it would still need supply lines to sustain the war effort. and I doubt a single IoM world can devote the supplies for a war on a galactic scale. The ME races could simply attack weak targets, and attempt to destroy any available supplies for the Imperial navy to use.
Not to mention that the IoM wouldn't have the Mass Effect technology. Making it impossible to get from planet to planet.
At best it would end in a stalemate. With the IoM planets taking a foothold but unable to make any further progress, while having to defend constant attacks from ME forces.

For the love of God, not again. Those horrid Star Wars threads are just gone from the front page. This thread will end just like them and like the previous Mass Effect vs 40k thread and every other of this kind of thread ever. The whole argument will come down to supporters of both sides having a "My daddy could beat up your daddy. No he couldn't. Yes he could. No way. Yes. No. Yes. No."-contest.
The OP tried to give it an interesting swing by focussing on how the different races would interract rather than on conflict, but "My daddy could beat your daddy" is where this is going to end regardless. It is the inevitable way of threads like this.

haiharoshin wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
There are individual planets in the IoM that aren't even famous that could destroy the ME Universe by themselves.

as mentioned before, the warp doesn't apply to the ME universe, This means that it would make it rather difficult for the races of 40k to get anywhere, let alone individual planets. and Depending on the type of world your referring to, would it be able to sustain a total war against a universe with greater mobility while in its own universe, as well as control of many planets. Even the IoM planet has greater firepower (which I'm sure it does.) it would still need supply lines to sustain the war effort. and I doubt a single IoM world can devote the supplies for a war on a galactic scale. The ME races could simply attack weak targets, and attempt to destroy any available supplies for the Imperial navy to use.
Not to mention that the IoM wouldn't have the Mass Effect technology. Making it impossible to get from planet to planet.
At best it would end in a stalemate. With the IoM planets taking a foothold but unable to make any further progress, while having to defend constant attacks from ME forces.

If you're not applying the Warp to the calculation, then the Mass Effect can't apply either. Really, these are fantasy crutches that both universes rely upon to underpin the functionality of their realms, and without them, neither universe works.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
For the love of God, not again. Those horrid Star Wars threads are just gone from the front page. This thread will end just like them and like the previous Mass Effect vs 40k thread and every other of this kind of thread ever. The whole argument will come down to supporters of both sides having a "My daddy could beat up your daddy. No he couldn't. Yes he could. No way. Yes. No. Yes. No."-contest.
The OP tried to give it an interesting swing by focussing on how the different races would interract rather than on conflict, but "My daddy could beat your daddy" is where this is going to end regardless. It is the inevitable way of threads like this.

It was basically done until you showed up and started "contributing" to the thread.

All of the ME races are like the Tau initially: Logical, idealistic, rational and kind.

Then they see the city-sized Emperor Titan and realized they're in the wrong neighbourhood and reality is out to lunch. Then said titan would probably open up a butt-cannon and blow them to bits.

If the united Citadel Council at the end of ME3 was given some time to recover from the war and it remained highly united it could be a threat to 40k factions since each of the smaller factions all adds up to one super powerful one.

The strategy of the Turians, the determination of humanity, the high skill of the Asari and biotics, the science of the Salarians, and the sheer brutal hitting power of the Krogan. Also any other smaller races can contribute greatly as well.

All it would take is them to reverse engineer one weapons on a ship and one for ground and in two years it could suddenly replace every single gun with the new system.

I am of course referring to the ridiculous heat system. In widespread use through the universe. Two years after ME1 but before ME2 they suddenly switch to heat sinks and every gun in the universe is retroactively fitted with the "better" system.

With manufacturing power like that it's only a matter of time until they win.

However that's the ME universe at its most powerful and even then there's a whole lot of if's.

Can someone tell me what the sublight combat speed is for Mass Effect ships?

I recall from an engagement between Imperium and Tau starships that the ships were engaging at .7 - .8 c. 'c' being the speed of light/causality.

Again, Sovereign had a main weapon in the 500 kt range. That's a small escort craft in 40k at best. It doesn't matter if the turians have better infantry than the Imperial Guard, because once the Imperial Navy shows up, they win. If Sovereign's thanax cannon more or less ignored the shields of the turian fleet at the Citadel, those same shields being hit by lance batteries with orders of magnitude higher destructive potential isn't going to be a fair fight at all.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
It doesn't matter if the turians have better infantry than the Imperial Guard, because once the Imperial Navy shows up, they win.

wasn't that the failing of humanity in the HALO universe too?

 Vaktathi wrote:

haiharoshin wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
There are individual planets in the IoM that aren't even famous that could destroy the ME Universe by themselves.

as mentioned before, the warp doesn't apply to the ME universe, This means that it would make it rather difficult for the races of 40k to get anywhere, let alone individual planets. and Depending on the type of world your referring to, would it be able to sustain a total war against a universe with greater mobility while in its own universe, as well as control of many planets. Even the IoM planet has greater firepower (which I'm sure it does.) it would still need supply lines to sustain the war effort. and I doubt a single IoM world can devote the supplies for a war on a galactic scale. The ME races could simply attack weak targets, and attempt to destroy any available supplies for the Imperial navy to use.
Not to mention that the IoM wouldn't have the Mass Effect technology. Making it impossible to get from planet to planet.
At best it would end in a stalemate. With the IoM planets taking a foothold but unable to make any further progress, while having to defend constant attacks from ME forces.

If you're not applying the Warp to the calculation, then the Mass Effect can't apply either. Really, these are fantasy crutches that both universes rely upon to underpin the functionality of their realms, and without them, neither universe works.

I was just refuting KamikazeCanuck's statement that a single IoM planet could solo the ME universe. And the scenario as I described it stated that if several portals showed up and connected both universes, then things like the warp, or Mass Effect, would only apply in the universe it came from (the Warp is only in the 40k universe, and Mass Effect is only in the ME universe.) This is a way of preventing one side (40k) from completely overpowering the other. so then people would have to explain how and why one faction would be superior over the other.

Just going to point out that the Mass Effect is a property of the material Element-Zero (also known as Eezo). In theory, all Mass Effect weapons, technology, and biotics would still function in the 40k universe, since these forces would be bringing the eezo with them just like normal.

Not quite so for the Warp, which is a property of the 40k universe itself. So in a "portal opens between the two that can be traversed" version of 40k vs Mass Effect, Mass Effect stuff could still work in 40k, but a whole bunch of 40k stuff doesn't work in Mass Effect.

Of course, if you just say that it's an "overlay", then you can say that both work for the side that's using them. When dealing with such massive concepts as "whole universe this vs whole universe that", these minor details can become pretty major - hence why I don't enjoy those.

I see what your trying to say, but IIRC, the ME races don't know how to construct Mass Relays, so its kinda balanced by circumstance.
I thought the scenario would force people to take into account which faction is able to develop tech faster. so the faction who can find out how to travel in the other universe faster (amung other factors) gets the edge.

Actually in ME4 trailer we've moved beyond relays now. We traveled to another galaxy and its apparent our traditional FTL drives are super fast since we're warping from planet to planet near instantly.

Also we did figure out how to make relay's at the very end of 3. We made the damn stupid colour generator which utilized every relay and also the Protheans made their own relay as well. So it's not that hard of a feat to accomplish.

 Gamgee wrote:
Actually in ME4 trailer we've moved beyond relays now. We traveled to another galaxy and its apparent our traditional FTL drives are super fast since we're warping from planet to planet near instantly.

Also we did figure out how to make relay's at the very end of 3. We made the damn stupid colour generator which utilized every relay and also the Protheans made their own relay as well. So it's not that hard of a feat to accomplish.

actually, the ME universe has FTL without the mass relays. It is essentially the difference between Star Trek's Warp and transwarp, or from the Marvel comparison between Nightcrawler and Quicksilver. If control or synergy was selected then there is no problem as the reapers are the ones who built the relays.

I still don't think the IoM could beat anyone given their utter stupidity and incompetence. The foe doesn't matter.

Martel732 wrote:
I still don't think the IoM could beat anyone given their utter stupidity and incompetence. The foe doesn't matter.

numbers and the willingness to 'shrug' when a salvo accidentally takes out an allied ship or army engaging a mutual foe. Quantity does have a quality of its own. So does a willingness (or uncaring attitude) to absorb losses to kill your army.

The Imperium isn't really incompetent as a whole. If they were incompetent, they couldn't have lasted this long against everything that the 40k galaxy has thrown at them. Which, I should note, they have, to varying degrees of success over its 10k years of history.

The Imperium is like GW. They are big because they were big yesterday, not because they are good at what they do.

The Imperium is just a lot bigger than GW and pretty much took the galaxy for itself at the end of the Great Crusade, meaning it has taken a very long time for it to be as properly challenged as it is in 40k.

I would personally love to see what would happen if a bunch of Inquisitors got trapped in the ME universe (imagine what a cerberus led by the Ordo-Malleus or Hereticus could do...)
In terms to the actual topic:

Reapers... (they most likely, what ever the games show, don't deploy their entire force into the galaxy - and I bet they have some plans incase a race unexpectedly goes and builds a monolithic multi-kilometer long battleship for nor reason other than "Dakka, Dakka, Dakka").

40K side I would have to choose a the Ultramarines Legion (at it's strength levels just before the Horus-Heresy kicked off)!!! Imagine a full legion of over 200,000 astartes (ruling over a micro-empire of 500 systems)! screw the turians or krogans! I can kill a krogan in close-combat during all three games, with just hitting it! so either they are downplayed, or the game lies about how strong they are!

If it was Krogans post-cure (especially led by Wrex and Eve), frankly, I don't think a mere legion of Astartes is enough. A quarter of a million Astartes against billions or even trillions of well-organized, well-led Krogans supported by the technology of Mass Effect is a losing battle for the Astartes. They'd go out gloriously... but they'd still go out.

 Ashiraya wrote:
The Imperium is like GW. They are big because they were big yesterday, not because they are good at what they do.

The Imperium is just a lot bigger than GW and pretty much took the galaxy for itself at the end of the Great Crusade, meaning it has taken a very long time for it to be as properly challenged as it is in 40k.

So the Imperium's biggest threat is a rapid up and coming group like Fantasy Fight, I mean the Tau.

On that note, as with any peace first empire, the Tau would be particularly effective. Start trade, reverse engineer like mad, profit. When a race can reverse engineer Tyranid bio weapons to the point they have a short range jammer for them, you should never let them near your tech.

 Melissia wrote:
If it was Krogans post-cure (especially led by Wrex and Eve), frankly, I don't think a mere legion of Astartes is enough. A quarter of a million Astartes against billions or even trillions of well-organized, well-led Krogans supported by the technology of Mass Effect is a losing battle for the Astartes. They'd go out gloriously... but they'd still go out.

No doubts about that. Astartes are tough but not invincible, and without the genophage the Krogan will just keep coming. It will be an immensely bloody battle, but the Krogan will win through sheer attrition.

Of course, once you take the fleets into account... Hmm, it struck me that the ME games never really showed us any Krogan ships, did they?

 Melissia wrote:
The Imperium isn't really incompetent as a whole. If they were incompetent, they couldn't have lasted this long against everything that the 40k galaxy has thrown at them. Which, I should note, they have, to varying degrees of success over its 10k years of history.

It's pretty incompetent. And the whole point is that they aren't lasting.

 Nilok wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
The Imperium is like GW. They are big because they were big yesterday, not because they are good at what they do.

The Imperium is just a lot bigger than GW and pretty much took the galaxy for itself at the end of the Great Crusade, meaning it has taken a very long time for it to be as properly challenged as it is in 40k.

So the Imperium's biggest threat is a rapid up and coming group like Fantasy Fight, I mean the Tau.

On that note, as with any peace first empire, the Tau would be particularly effective. Start trade, reverse engineer like mad, profit. When a race can reverse engineer Tyranid bio weapons to the point they have a short range jammer for them, you should never let them near your tech.

We just shine flashlights and laser pointers with precise precision in their eyes. It's also why it works on jamming warp entities. Hahhaha. Get's them every time.

Ashiraya wrote:The Imperium is like GW. They are big because they were big yesterday, not because they are good at what they do.

The Imperium is just a lot bigger than GW and pretty much took the galaxy for itself at the end of the Great Crusade, meaning it has taken a very long time for it to be as properly challenged as it is in 40k.

You do realize that most of the IoM's territory was conquered during the Forging (a two-thousand year period), not the Great Crusade, right? It's downright moronic to even contemplate believing that the entire galaxy could be conquered in 200 years, and even 2,000 years is pretty far-fetched.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
If it was Krogans post-cure (especially led by Wrex and Eve), frankly, I don't think a mere legion of Astartes is enough. A quarter of a million Astartes against billions or even trillions of well-organized, well-led Krogans supported by the technology of Mass Effect is a losing battle for the Astartes. They'd go out gloriously... but they'd still go out.

No doubts about that. Astartes are tough but not invincible, and without the genophage the Krogan will just keep coming. It will be an immensely bloody battle, but the Krogan will win through sheer attrition.

Of course, once you take the fleets into account... Hmm, it struck me that the ME games never really showed us any Krogan ships, did they?

You know minus the fact that space marines have fleets of their own that are meant for bombardments, boarding actions. Or the fact they never deploy by themselves.

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
If it was Krogans post-cure (especially led by Wrex and Eve), frankly, I don't think a mere legion of Astartes is enough. A quarter of a million Astartes against billions or even trillions of well-organized, well-led Krogans supported by the technology of Mass Effect is a losing battle for the Astartes. They'd go out gloriously... but they'd still go out.

No doubts about that. Astartes are tough but not invincible, and without the genophage the Krogan will just keep coming. It will be an immensely bloody battle, but the Krogan will win through sheer attrition.

Of course, once you take the fleets into account... Hmm, it struck me that the ME games never really showed us any Krogan ships, did they?

You know minus the fact that space marines have fleets of their own that are meant for bombardments, boarding actions. Or the fact they never deploy by themselves.

Blood Angels Omnibus says hello. It would make more sense for them to deploy alongside the Imperial Guard 99.99% of the time, but then you have a single Company of Blood Angels toppling an entire Ork Empire to get a special spear all by themselves.

 dusara217 wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
If it was Krogans post-cure (especially led by Wrex and Eve), frankly, I don't think a mere legion of Astartes is enough. A quarter of a million Astartes against billions or even trillions of well-organized, well-led Krogans supported by the technology of Mass Effect is a losing battle for the Astartes. They'd go out gloriously... but they'd still go out.

No doubts about that. Astartes are tough but not invincible, and without the genophage the Krogan will just keep coming. It will be an immensely bloody battle, but the Krogan will win through sheer attrition.

Of course, once you take the fleets into account... Hmm, it struck me that the ME games never really showed us any Krogan ships, did they?

You know minus the fact that space marines have fleets of their own that are meant for bombardments, boarding actions. Or the fact they never deploy by themselves.

Blood Angels Omnibus says hello. It would make more sense for them to deploy alongside the Imperial Guard 99.99% of the time, but then you have a single Company of Blood Angels toppling an entire Ork Empire to get a special spear all by themselves.

Yes but apart from that one time. we have the space wolves during the first war of armaggedon being deployed with entire legions of imperial guardsmen, a single grey knight company. And then the third war having the most troops deployed ever apart from the 13th black crusade, where several titian legions, fleets and armies were sent out to defend.

Most major conflicts need the imperials forces working together. And most do.

Crusade fleets are space marines leading the fronts while guardsmen are basically the hammer, while the space marines the knife to take out critical parts of an enemies HQ. So most likely space marines would drop into a command center or board a commandship and take out the leadership while the rest of the imperial forces deal with the major forces.

 dusara217 wrote:

Ashiraya wrote:The Imperium is like GW. They are big because they were big yesterday, not because they are good at what they do.

The Imperium is just a lot bigger than GW and pretty much took the galaxy for itself at the end of the Great Crusade, meaning it has taken a very long time for it to be as properly challenged as it is in 40k.

You do realize that most of the IoM's territory was conquered during the Forging (a two-thousand year period), not the Great Crusade, right? It's downright moronic to even contemplate believing that the entire galaxy could be conquered in 200 years, and even 2,000 years is pretty far-fetched.

It's also pretty damn moronic to imagine a dude pushing up a Titan's foot from underneath it, but the Great Crusade was a weird time. That is not a reason to be snide.

I also could not find a source stating that the Forging was more important than the Great Crusade in this.