Warhammer 40k vs Mass Effect

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**Furyou Miko**

Actually, given all the other times people have messed around in Space Marine heads, I think they might actually be more vulnerable to Indoctrination than anyone else.

**dusara217**

Ashiraya wrote:
dusara217 wrote:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/The_Forging
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Age_of_the_Imperium#The_Forging_.28c._M32_-_c._M35.29
Also, 5th Edition Rulebook

The former link doesn't state just how much of an impact the Forging had vs the Great Crusade.

I shall ignore the latter because the 40k wiki lacks inline citations, making it infamously unreliable.

If the rulebook says it, it's another matter, but you will need to quote the passage and ensure it has not been retconned in later editions.

dusara217 wrote:
Also, there are at least 100 billion planets in the galaxy, I find the idea of the Imperium's "dominance" over it preposterous, in and of itself, but that's beside the point.

It is worth remembering that almost all of those 100 billion planets are lifeless rocks, largely irrelevant except possibly for mining (and very rarely for terraforming).

There are 11 billion worlds believed to be habitable. 11,000x as many worlds as the Imperium owns (and this is disregarding the fact that many species undoubtedly had the capability to terraform planets at a whim).

Also, any war that the Imperium of Man embarks upon (in the Great Crusade), that I've read about, took at least a year.

It's worth considering that any battle we get to read about is going to be close-fought, because nobody enjoys reading 'Imperium shows up, secures compliance shortly with their display of power, compliance goes smoothly and the Crusade goes on.' That doesn't necessarily have to mean that the stories we get to read about are representative of the majority.

**Nilok**

Gamgee wrote:
Then the Emperor really needs to license some new faith pins or something because a hell of a lot of people pray to him every day and die.

Protection from warp and psychic effects. Yes. Protection from actual scientific effects? No.

Your implying the Reapers indoctrination works the same way as the warp and it doesn't. It's not a thing that exists on an emotional/faith level that interacts with the warp. It just affects biological species as easy as a bullet kills them and it is an effect brought on by the mind control technology of the Reapers that targets the brain as easily as any conventional weapon could.

So the vast majority of biological species can't resist it including Space Marines. It's one of the only things I would give the Mass Effect universe an advantage for as 40k has such overwhelming odds of winning otherwise. I know my stuff and I know that indoctrination would be an extremely big problem for any biological species. Some species ion 40k could be more resistance than others. I'm not going to deny Space Marines would resist indoctrination for longer, but would eventually succumb. Other races would last longer or shorter. Also I agree the Tau and Etherals would be extremely susceptible. Right up there with regular humans.

The Tyranids might be immune, but maybe not. It would depend on individual strains of creatures. Rachni queens born before the Reapers took over their civlization were immune to the effects, but their children were not and they are the ME closest analogue to Tyranids. The Rachni Queen that was born after though with the mind control on her when young was indoctrinated. So it all depends on how it reacts with each Tyranid creature.

If the Emperor can't protects against physical effects, "science", then explain how that the Sister of Battle who have faith so strong it can stop bullets. It isn't the purity seal itself that protects, but the insane belief that it does.

**keezus**

I just wanted to point out that the Imperial Cult is full of paranoia about dissent and heresy. The Imperial Navy, Astra Militarum and similar branches are much more susceptible to indoctrination. Any who are contaminated would be swiftly killed. It is more a problem of those who are strong against indoctrination. The Adeptus Astartes, =]I[= and the Adepta Sororitas would be strong against this type of manipulation. I suspect it would still work, but just amplify their vigilance and paranoia. It would only take a few coincidences for this paranoia to blow up into a full scale search for heresy. As soon as the first allegations are made, factions would form, and you'd have yourself a full on gak-fest... where nobody knows who is heretical and who is loyalist (HINT: They are all loyalist). The High Lords would have no choice but to murder them all to prevent contamination.

**haiharoshin**

I am so glad I started this thread. It has provided many days worth of interesting discussion.
Perhaps I should do this again, but with a better, more thought out scenario and what not.
Also, I wonder what Cerberus would do when they come in contact with the Imperium. Assuming they want to join the Imperium it would definately give them a much better understanding of the workings of the ME universe.
On the other hand, there is also the possibility of Cerberus backing of and saying "woah, you should turn the whole human supremacy thing down a notch"

**Furyou Miko**

Nilok wrote:

If the Emperor can't protects against physical effects, "science", then explain how that the Sister of Battle who have faith so strong it can stop bullets. It isn't the purity seal itself that protects, but the insane belief that it does.

The invulnerable save is more supposed to represent them bulling through mortal wounds out of the sheer belief that they cannot die until their mission is complete.

Less Clerical Powers, more John McClane.

**Asherian Command**

haiharoshin wrote:
I am so glad I started this thread. It has provided many days worth of interesting discussion.
Perhaps I should do this again, but with a better, more thought out scenario and what not.
Also, I wonder what Cerberus would do when they come in contact with the Imperium. Assuming they want to join the Imperium it would definately give them a much better understanding of the workings of the ME universe.
On the other hand, there is also the possibility of Cerberus backing of and saying "woah, you should turn the whole human supremacy thing down a notch"

They would probably join them to be honest. Though their robots would be frowned upon by the Imperium. Unless you know they showed they were controlled by a human, if so, then they might be very happy to take Cerberus along with them.

**Nilok**

Furyou Miko wrote:
Nilok wrote:

If the Emperor can't protects against physical effects, "science", then explain how that the Sister of Battle who have faith so strong it can stop bullets. It isn't the purity seal itself that protects, but the insane belief that it does.

The invulnerable save is more supposed to represent them bulling through mortal wounds out of the sheer belief that they cannot die until their mission is complete.

Less Clerical Powers, more John McClane.

Could you give me a source on that.

I also noticed this.

A Rosarius is a gorget or amulet worn by some members of the Ecclesiarchy to protect them from physical and spiritual harm.

Individuals with a Rosarius (strong invulnerable save) may well be protected.

**Ashiraya**

Furyou Miko wrote:
Nilok wrote:

If the Emperor can't protects against physical effects, "science", then explain how that the Sister of Battle who have faith so strong it can stop bullets. It isn't the purity seal itself that protects, but the insane belief that it does.

The invulnerable save is more supposed to represent them bulling through mortal wounds out of the sheer belief that they cannot die until their mission is complete.

Less Clerical Powers, more John McClane.

And how does that prevent vaporization?

**Grey Templar**

Nilok wrote:
Can someone tell me what the sublight combat speed is for Mass Effect ships?

I recall from an engagement between Imperium and Tau starships that the ships were engaging at .7 - .8 c. 'c' being the speed of light/causality.

From math I did in many previous 40k vs X threads, the slowest 40k ships move roughly around 240,000 KPH. Which isn't even close to the speed of light, but it is pretty darn fast.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

dusara217 wrote:
Ashiraya wrote:
dusara217 wrote:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/The_Forging
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Age_of_the_Imperium#The_Forging_.28c._M32_-_c._M35.29
Also, 5th Edition Rulebook

The former link doesn't state just how much of an impact the Forging had vs the Great Crusade.

I shall ignore the latter because the 40k wiki lacks inline citations, making it infamously unreliable.

If the rulebook says it, it's another matter, but you will need to quote the passage and ensure it has not been retconned in later editions.

dusara217 wrote:
Also, there are at least 100 billion planets in the galaxy, I find the idea of the Imperium's "dominance" over it preposterous, in and of itself, but that's beside the point.

It is worth remembering that almost all of those 100 billion planets are lifeless rocks, largely irrelevant except possibly for mining (and very rarely for terraforming).

There are 11 billion worlds believed to be habitable. 11,000x as many worlds as the Imperium owns (and this is disregarding the fact that many species undoubtedly had the capability to terraform planets at a whim).

IIRC that 11 billion number is only worlds which would be in the happy zone of the star they are orbiting. IE: not too close to where solar radiation would kill any life on the planet and not too far away to mean its nothing but a frozen hellscape. It doesn't mean the planet has an atmosphere or other environmental factors which would make it impossible for life to exist.

**Furyou Miko**

Nilok wrote:
Could you give me a source on that.

Codex: Adepta Sororitas page 33.

The Sisters of Battle are taught that faith is a shield stronger than any armour. Such is the power of their belief that the Emperor will protect them that the Adepta Sororitas can shrug off the most severe of wounds, and resist the witchcraft of enemy sorcerers.

Note: It says 'shrug off'. They still suffer the wound - they just keep going anyway.