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 Spinner wrote:

Which looks like Sigmar (who..looks like a dude, are you sure they're genderless?), funnily enough. More fuel for the 'AoS Sigmar is a self-centered narcissistic jerk' fire Chaos overrunning everything because I got too busy throwing a tantrum at Nagash to help? Fine, I'll take my toys and go to Azyrheim and make everyone awesome look like me!

Let me put it this way - I'm not sure that they are not . I can't find a place that says specifically that they look like Sigmar himself. If they are created in his image (like genesis in the bible), it probably just means that they look like big humans in armor. And men and women that big, honestly look almost the same [insert picture of female- contra male bodybuilder]. But hey, in my mind it doesn't really matter. I love fantasy, and I would hate to write something just to be PC - money or not. I would want to tell a story, I myself could get behind... Which would be a good place to talk about a much bigger issue - Where is GW going with this story? Is it just apocalypse from now and 20 years forward? It gets old really quick IMO... Female stormcasts or not.

I think they are more of magic 4 limbed meat slugs with a sigmarite shell to give them final form. The Forging removes their individuality.

Also as for the settin, Isn't this more of a barbarian fantasy setting now instead of the midevil fantasy of WHFB?

Andreas 2.0 wrote:

 Spinner wrote:

Which looks like Sigmar (who..looks like a dude, are you sure they're genderless?), funnily enough. More fuel for the 'AoS Sigmar is a self-centered narcissistic jerk' fire Chaos overrunning everything because I got too busy throwing a tantrum at Nagash to help? Fine, I'll take my toys and go to Azyrheim and make everyone awesome look like me!

Let me put it this way - I'm not sure that they are not . I can't find a place that says specifically that they look like Sigmar himself. If they are created in his image (like genesis in the bible), it probably just means that they look like big humans in armor. And men and women that big, honestly look almost the same [insert picture of female- contra male bodybuilder]. But hey, in my mind it doesn't really matter. I love fantasy, and I would hate to write something just to be PC - money or not. I would want to tell a story, I myself could get behind... Which would be a good place to talk about a much bigger issue - Where is GW going with this story? Is it just apocalypse from now and 20 years forward? It gets old really quick IMO... Female stormcasts or not.

It really isn't 'just to be PC', it's 'making a more interesting faction'. Stormcasts as they are are very one-dimensional. They feel like bland Space Marine copy/pastes without the interesting bits, and having female Stormcast models and background - as well as orcs, elves, dwarfs, and what have you - would go a long way toward fixing some of the problems with AoS' flagship faction.

As for where GW's going...not really on topic, but probably 'these guys fought at the Trademarkius Gates and some of them got hit so hard, you guys' for a while yet.

It's a good thing they haven't sullied the Age of Sigmar fluff with political correctness, or it might have become very silly and hard to relate to.

But, GW just doesn't have a good track record depicting women, period. Open a Black Library novel and you have women everywhere, but open any GW kit made in the last fifteen years and you're going to be looking at all men, save for a few odd eldar and elves. The impression I get is that GW believes their core audience does not need or want more female miniatures. And, judging by the numbers of people eager to explain why women can't be space marines or grouse that female Stormcast would be "politically correct" on forums like this, I think they're correct.

I can offer a super-easy compromise though - a lot of us are loving Fallout 4 these days. In it, your character can acquire, pilot, and modify suits of power armor. Because you're not a hulking space marine the suit is bigger than the pilot, and once suited up you can't tell from the outside if a pilot is male or female - breasts don't take up that much space, hips don't show on something so bulky. Really, you wouldn't know until they speak or remove their helmet. Applying that same logic to the Stormcast, it's easy to imagine either gender inside of those suits.

As for Warhammer... Warhammer never changes... *









* Except for once every thirty years when the bases change, the game style changes, and the background world is discarded.

Andreas 2.0 wrote:
Ok so here is a question for the crowd. How do you know that the stormcast eternals are male or female by their armor? I mean, there is a ghost inside the armor (kind of). Do you really want boob armor? If this is about being PC, then boob armor is kinda the opposite to what we want to see right? An armor that is worse than the male equivalent just to show feminine physique = No thank you. If this is not a PC question, but rather a question to call out the creators on their lack of female characters, I think the Stormcast is the worst possible example you could ever think of. The model represents equality beyond race and sex. It might actually be the most PC model ever (Next to genderless ghosts and the like). Damn guys, you could have named empire which would have been a MUCH better example... Come on. There could be alot of innocent explanation for the lack of women soldiers in the empire, like wanting to mirror our own history in a fantastical setting, but still.

Oh and another little fun fact about warhammer. Alot of the 'not including women' in warhammer stems from the difficulty one encounters when sculpting feminine physique without making pin up dolls. It is a hassle to do which is why they only really did so on elf troops where the faces look similar enough that you can just switch out the chest piece of the model.

They don't need to look different, which is why it's such a missed opportunity. The only thing that would have to be different is the writing, but for some reason if you read any of the books they are all referred to as guys.

Also it is a little demoralising reading a thread and finding out I am the PC tumblr SJW police for wanting women to exist in the setting.

 HiveFleetPlastic wrote:

Also it is a little demoralising reading a thread and finding out I am the PC tumblr SJW police for wanting women to exist in the setting.

There are already women in the setting - just not as Stormcast. Still colour me mystified about how they can turn race/sex x into something else... This combined with Sqorgar's reference to bronies was why I posted what I did.

I'd hope everyone on this thread is egalitarian, and whilst there aren't any female Stormcast currently I don't think anyone's arguing there shouldn't be. But obviously the reforging process only had a single mold...
There was no intent on my part to make anyone feel bad!

 HiveFleetPlastic wrote:

They don't need to look different, which is why it's such a missed opportunity. The only thing that would have to be different is the writing, but for some reason if you read any of the books they are all referred to as guys.

Also it is a little demoralising reading a thread and finding out I am the PC tumblr SJW police for wanting women to exist in the setting.

The point is not whether it is PC or not. The point is that GW probably didn't think about it at all. The point is that there are terribly many things that would have made the setting better, of which the inclusion of more strong females probably isn't the first thing anyone would point to. AoS is kinda bland and boring, and there is a lot of world building lacking before we even begin to have an interesting story. But the thing is that GW doesn't make models from their stories, they make stories for their models, which means that we probably won't have any interesting female characters until we get some cool female models... And the stormcasts probably isn't the right place to introduce that. They are a non-genderspecific armors with a soul. They are not male heroes of old nor are they just human souls for that matter. They are just heroes in gold armor. They are there for your imagination to fill in alot of the blanks, like space marines are in 40k.

The whole thing about being PC or a SJW shouldn't really be relevant to this discussion. OP wondered why we haven't heard of female stormcast since there must have been some female heroes in the end times. My argument is that there are female stormcast, they are just not female any longer as much as they aren't male any longer. In all honesty it just seems like a moot point until we get some more fluff to go by. I mean, of course there have been alot of sisters of sigmar, witch elves etc. to ascend to the stormcast ranks, but why would that be a concern for GW to write about now. They are establishing a new setting, and they probably aren't really concerned with genderspecifics at this point (and they may never be).

If you are just in it for the story about equal oppertunity heroes, I can recommend a ton of books with leading female characters. We are actually incredibly spoiled on that subject as fans of fantasy. The warhammer setting (old or new) just isn't one of the gender equal settings (for now), and that is OK. But please feel free to PM me if you want some recommendations on the subject, I wasn't kidding when I said 'a ton'.

Since we are being PC how about a physically challenged Sigmarine? Gets a advanced move because he has handicap parking. Or a mentally challenged Sigmarine? Where if you roll a one he gets extra strength and goes nuts.

I think it is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. If they make female modeled Stormcast - which I would love, by the way - they end up getting criticized for boob plate armor, or making them too sexy, or making their breasts too large, or that they actually look female when real plate mail wouldn't reveal the gender of whomever is in it. And if they don't make female Stormcast, GW isn't progressive enough, is leaving out half the potential market, is making their setting misogynistic or whatever.

I mean, I read a review of Malifaux over on Shut Up and Sit Down where half of it was complaining about how inappropriate the prostitute models were and what kind of message that sent to young women - ignoring the fact that they were setting and character appropriate, and that Malifaux has many major female characters that are strong and not overtly sexy. It really left a bad taste in my mouth because I wanted to know about the game, not hear some dude's opinion on sexuality, judging others for not having the same problems with it or caring as deeply. It's like, one day! That's all I want. One damn day where I don't have to be preached down to.

I think, at this point, any argument that falls under the PC/SJW umbrella reminds me of that review, or one of the dozens (if not hundreds) of similar reviews which have literally ruined video games for me. Even if it is a legitimate complaint, it too closely resembles all the rest of that crap and I have trouble taking such complaints/suggestions seriously. Do you want the models because it would be sweet, or do you want them because you think they should have them for social reasons like fairness, representation, or morality? If it is the first, great. If it the latter, then know that your cult-like beliefs are ruining gaming.

 Chute82 wrote:
Since we are being PC how about a physically challenged Sigmarine? Gets a advanced move because he has handicap parking. Or a mentally challenged Sigmarine? Where if you roll a one he gets extra strength and goes nuts.

Congratulations on painting everybody with mental health issues as some kind of Hulk-esque person who will randomly go crazy and attack everything with superhuman strength. That really helps your argument against "political correctness".

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Chute82 wrote:
Since we are being PC how about a physically challenged Sigmarine? Gets a advanced move because he has handicap parking. Or a mentally challenged Sigmarine? Where if you roll a one he gets extra strength and goes nuts.

Congratulations on painting everybody with mental health issues as some kind of Hulk-esque person who will randomly go crazy and attack everything with superhuman strength. That really helps your argument against "political correctness".

Lighten up Francis..... It's making fun of you PC police people

 Chute82 wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Chute82 wrote:
Since we are being PC how about a physically challenged Sigmarine? Gets a advanced move because he has handicap parking. Or a mentally challenged Sigmarine? Where if you roll a one he gets extra strength and goes nuts.

Congratulations on painting everybody with mental health issues as some kind of Hulk-esque person who will randomly go crazy and attack everything with superhuman strength. That really helps your argument against "political correctness".

Lighten up Francis..... It's making fun of you PC police people

No, it's making fun of people with mental health problems and perpetuating idiotic and damaging misconceptions of mental health.

I have a feeling this topic has the potential to run and run... until a mod stamps on it.

Like a cockroach.

 Vermis wrote:
I have a feeling this topic has the potential to run and run... until a mod stamps on it.

Like a cockroach.

Doesn't have to... OP posted a valid question, and people tried to answer. As long as people keep their political statements out of the threat, we shouldn't get hit with anything.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:

Edgecoc wrote:
It's sad that this is why the thread exist in the first place."My fantasy must be PC! you know like medieval times were"

You think a game where you have to roll for dysentery at the start of every battle would be superior to one with female soldiers?

Not gonna lie, I'd totally give a game with Dysentery rolls a try. That might be pretty cool.

I was going to post another "witty" joke, but now I'm kind of afraid I'd be accused of wanting to forever damage the social rights of women and disabled people :/ . Better not to dabble here anymore... Away to the Fyreslayer thread

Personally I would like lots more female figures in GWs range but they seem to actively avoid making them - despite the fact that loads are sold by other companies and they have historically had some lovely models (Escher gangers. Diaz Daemonettes, Sisters of Battle and Sigmar)

It does seem to be a decision to have less and less in thier range and game background - whilst the opposite is true wtih the BL fiction - well at lest in 40k - AOS fiction is also lacking.

In terms of the argument that medievil wars were not predomiantlly fought with women warriors - its probably the absolute weakest argument that could be brought to bear. AOS in particular is a high fantasy game redolent of the great sagas and stories of myth and legend - many of which have prminent female hero's.

AOS It not about the "reality of medievil warfare" - and even there women did fight - not many but some..........

Andreas 2.0 wrote:

 HiveFleetPlastic wrote:

They don't need to look different, which is why it's such a missed opportunity. The only thing that would have to be different is the writing, but for some reason if you read any of the books they are all referred to as guys.

Also it is a little demoralising reading a thread and finding out I am the PC tumblr SJW police for wanting women to exist in the setting.

The whole thing about being PC or a SJW shouldn't really be relevant to this discussion. OP wondered why we haven't heard of female stormcast since there must have been some female heroes in the end times. My argument is that there are female stormcast, they are just not female any longer as much as they aren't male any longer. In all honesty it just seems like a moot point until we get some more fluff to go by. I mean, of course there have been alot of sisters of sigmar, witch elves etc. to ascend to the stormcast ranks, but why would that be a concern for GW to write about now. They are establishing a new setting, and they probably aren't really concerned with genderspecifics at this point (and they may never be).

They are not gender neutral. They are referred to continually as male, whether specifically (like Vandus Hammerhand, for example) or generically (Stormbound being referred to as "brothers").

You've read the stories and stuff, right? It's really general in the starter set book, but it's less so in the later ones, or in the fiction books. That is what makes it weird - there is room there, but when they have filled in the gaps, it's all dudes.

I think the best solution we are going to get here is to just forget about what Games Workshop has written and decide for ourselves that the Stormcast are made up of any gender.

 Sqorgar wrote:
I think it is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. If they make female modeled Stormcast - which I would love, by the way - they end up getting criticized for boob plate armor, or making them too sexy, or making their breasts too large, or that they actually look female when real plate mail wouldn't reveal the gender of whomever is in it. And if they don't make female Stormcast, GW isn't progressive enough, is leaving out half the potential market, is making their setting misogynistic or whatever.

I mean, I read a review of Malifaux over on Shut Up and Sit Down where half of it was complaining about how inappropriate the prostitute models were and what kind of message that sent to young women - ignoring the fact that they were setting and character appropriate, and that Malifaux has many major female characters that are strong and not overtly sexy. It really left a bad taste in my mouth because I wanted to know about the game, not hear some dude's opinion on sexuality, judging others for not having the same problems with it or caring as deeply. It's like, one day! That's all I want. One damn day where I don't have to be preached down to.

I think, at this point, any argument that falls under the PC/SJW umbrella reminds me of that review, or one of the dozens (if not hundreds) of similar reviews which have literally ruined video games for me. Even if it is a legitimate complaint, it too closely resembles all the rest of that crap and I have trouble taking such complaints/suggestions seriously. Do you want the models because it would be sweet, or do you want them because you think they should have them for social reasons like fairness, representation, or morality? If it is the first, great. If it the latter, then know that your cult-like beliefs are ruining gaming.

Reviews cannot ruin video games. If you feel they have, it is a issue you need to work out yourself. I just played a video game a minute ago and it was pretty fun (it was called "Lethis - Path of Progress" if you want to look it up). Maybe you could give that one a try?

I looked up the Malifaux review. It talks at length about the mechanics and how cool the setting is and then mentions that a lot of the female miniatures seem to be oversexualised and that maybe one of them draws on racist history. It seemed like a pretty fair review.

I think one of the reasons people like certain works or styles of fiction is they show people who are similar to them being heroic and powerful, or at least accepted. I like seeing women in the setting in roles like a warcaster or a stormcast eternal or whatever because that is part of the point of silly power fantasy fiction like you find in wargames. Personally I especially like women being part of standard infantry models, because it helps avoid the sort of weird exceptionalism that having women only in specific powerful positions seems to imply (the implication being - "if you're super duper special you can be as good as the boys, but you probably won't be"). Most wargame units don't do super well on that yet, unfortunately, but there are some exceptions, and things are trending that way, maybe? Some of the new Warmachine units have been mixed.

So I hope that helps you understand where I am coming from.

I agree that it is weird that they have only referred to them as dudes, but there are a few possible explanations for that. 1. All souls are turned into an image of sigmar himself. 2. We have only heard about a very select few stormcast yet. At any point, I find it curious at the most. It may just come down to lazy writing, which isn't really anything to get up in arms about. It is expectable from GW after all. They had a rather interesting world (though generic), and threw it out. Their least offence of all is honestly the lack of females. And as you so brilliantly point out, it is open to interpretation, and there is nothing stoppong anyone from calling their stormcast former heroines.

I just don't get people not understanding characters in fiction being sexist. It has been around for a while.

Andreas 2.0 wrote:
Ok so here is a question for the crowd. How do you know that the stormcast eternals are male or female by their armor? I mean, there is a ghost inside the armor (kind of). Do you really want boob armor? If this is about being PC, then boob armor is kinda the opposite to what we want to see right? An armor that is worse than the male equivalent just to show feminine physique = No thank you. If this is not a PC question, but rather a question to call out the creators on their lack of female characters, I think the Stormcast is the worst possible example you could ever think of. The model represents equality beyond race and sex. It might actually be the most PC model ever (Next to genderless ghosts and the like). Damn guys, you could have named empire which would have been a MUCH better example... Come on. There could be alot of innocent explanation for the lack of women soldiers in the empire, like wanting to mirror our own history in a fantastical setting, but still.

If you put enough bulky enough armor onto a female, it will look exactly the same as a male. Looking at an astronaut doing a space walk, which one is the male, and which is the female? If a female sat inside an Wraithknight, it would look exactly the same as a male.

Now, I think there is a legitimate demand for boob armor. I mean, why not have sexy miniatures? I have no problem with that, any more than I do with male armor that has sculpted pectorals. GW has always had a greatly disproportionate number of male versus female models. If you want female models, in my opinion, you'll be better served by another company that regularly produces female sculpts, as the ones coming from GW are so few and far between that if this is your thing, you won't be happy with the GW collection. It's not that there aren't great models (like Succubus and Dark Elf Sorceress) -- it's just that they're so rarely made that you'll wait a year between each one.

Andreas 2.0 wrote:
Oh and another little fun fact about warhammer. Alot of the 'not including women' in warhammer stems from the difficulty one encounters when sculpting feminine physique without making pin up dolls. It is a hassle to do which is why they only really did so on elf troops where the faces look similar enough that you can just switch out the chest piece of the model.

Yeah, the Dark Eldar are a great example of good execution on this.

Edgecoc wrote:
I just don't get people not understanding characters in fiction being sexist. It has been around for a while.

"sigh"

Its nothing to do with sexism or anythig like that - characters in a fictional setting can of course be sexist, the setting can even be sexist - what people don;t get at the moment is that the neither the setting of the characters apparently are - in fact quite the opposite but that for unknown reasons GW are just not bothering with this element.

They could have said somthing like - "And Sigmar gathred unto him all those warriors that had fought against the great enemy - Chaos and those that were male he reforged into powerful weapons against his eternal enemy."

I would not have liked it myself - its just a bit dull but they didn't - the Stormforged are simply those who he brought back - apparently they can be male, female, human, elvish, dwarvish, orcs etc etc.

As had been explained - the setting is attempting to emulate the great sagas and myths of religion and story - many of which have female protagonists.

Does that make sense?

Its the same wierd argument that people had about Necrons - why would some of them not be female - (and GW later produced female characters via BL) but people got all upset that somehow the setting was tainted by female figues etc and its all a PC consipracy and people were just trying to have fun int he "wrong way" and play with the "wrong " toys or something - wierd.........

Take my upvote Mr Morden... And be gone with ya

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Chute82 wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Chute82 wrote:
Since we are being PC how about a physically challenged Sigmarine? Gets a advanced move because he has handicap parking. Or a mentally challenged Sigmarine? Where if you roll a one he gets extra strength and goes nuts.

Congratulations on painting everybody with mental health issues as some kind of Hulk-esque person who will randomly go crazy and attack everything with superhuman strength. That really helps your argument against "political correctness".

Lighten up Francis..... It's making fun of you PC police people

No, it's making fun of people with mental health problems and perpetuating idiotic and damaging misconceptions of mental health.

That's exactly what they're like. I have been around several insane people like that. It's scary.

I don't think it's PC/SJW/buzzword to just want to be able to picture yourself in a fantasy setting. Sure, it's justifiable fluff-size that these particular models look the way they do. And most people can't necessarily "relate" to being a shiny gold statue, and the body type probably doesn't represent many people...

But part of the appeal of GW's products to many is the idea that you're part of the game. It is far harder to picture yourself as part of that setting when the only visible models to represent you are segregated into their own factions. The lack of human or heroic female figures is really depressing across all of GW's ranges.

I'm not talking about the sort of people who say "I refuse to buy this!" when they weren't buying into it to begin with.
I'm talking about friends and people around me who love the setting, and own several armies, yet have to make do with figures that don't represent them. The slight wistful expressions when we hear of new releases and know that again, no girls allowed.

Wommenz is harder to sculpt theory? If you can make a six titted snake daemon with a knight perched on it, you can make a woman in a uniform that doesn't look like she's smuggling her ammunition bags around in her tunic.

 Buttery Commissar wrote:

Wommenz is harder to sculpt theory? If you can make a six titted snake daemon with a knight perched on it, you can make a woman in a uniform that doesn't look like she's smuggling her ammunition bags around in her tunic.

Yes but you're ignoring the fact that anyone with enough talent to sculpt an anatomically correct six tittied snake daemon with a knight perched on it left GW many moons ago.

Actually now that I think about it I'd dismiss out of hand the idea that females are harder to sculpt than men as ridiculous, buuuut in GW's CAD powered 'heroic' scale it might legitimately be..
Their men aren't really very well sculpted men, emphasizing oversized heads, hands, shoulders, etc. To make a female that is not just a man with tits you need to slim down the waist, shoulders, de-emphasize the muscles, basically do the entire opposite of what makes GW's 'heroic' scale heroic.
Things like the Dark Eldar seem to get away with putting a female head and torso on a unisex pair of legs and arms, but that is because the entire eldar and dark eldar line are done very slim and feminine to begin with compared to say marines or orcs. Guard on the other hand, as much as we'd all love an updated kit that includes some options for female heads and torsos, would look like men with tits there. As do the sisters of Averlorn since their backs (and thus shoulders coming off them) are the same part as the male elves.


Bonus points, Dark Eldar women new vs old.
Old:

Really good female anatomy there, she's muscled up and really athletic but you can still see she is obviously a female from the narrow waist. Feet and hands aren't grossly oversized either.
New:

Not nearly as good imo. Waist is kinda feminine, but the hips seem a little too blocky, and the arm and legs do not fit it well at all.


Fun thought exercise aside, GW have enough trouble updating the 15 year old models as it is, they don't have the production capacity to release a box of female sigmarines any more than they do orc sigmarines or dwarf sigmarines, so we'll get stuck with the same exact bodies we already have.

 Buttery Commissar wrote:

Wommenz is harder to sculpt theory? If you can make a six titted snake daemon with a knight perched on it, you can make a woman in a uniform that doesn't look like she's smuggling her ammunition bags around in her tunic.

Sculptors can be in a double bind, though, if they assume, or are told, that the miniature being female means it must be unambiguously identifiable as female. I think that's where they can go wrong? In reality, it can be hard to tell someone's gender if they are so far away they look like they're an inch tall, and so if someone tries to sculpt them like it's unambiguous they end up with some caricature of feminine stereotypes. The reverse isn't done - nobody thinks "this miniature must look 100% like a dude!"

They just need to understand it's not necessary.

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
I don't think it's PC/SJW/buzzword to just want to be able to picture yourself in a fantasy setting. Sure, it's justifiable fluff-size that these particular models look the way they do. And most people can't necessarily "relate" to being a shiny gold statue, and the body type probably doesn't represent many people...

Neither does Batman's body, but I think he does alright.

I have exactly zero things in common with the heroines of Jane Austin books, and yet I can relate to the characters, their trials and tribulations, just fine. Frankly, if you need someone just like you in order to relate, then you are a shallow, self absorbed individual who lacks basic empathy for your fellow mankind.

But part of the appeal of GW's products to many is the idea that you're part of the game. It is far harder to picture yourself as part of that setting when the only visible models to represent you are segregated into their own factions. The lack of human or heroic female figures is really depressing across all of GW's ranges.

You like to picture yourself as part of a world that has been overrun with Chaos, where you are constantly chased by Bloodreavers who, if they don't eat your flesh, will force you to join them by making you partake in the flesh of your companions?

If I'm going to picture myself as part of a setting, it'll be as a UPS man with a large package to drop off at a bored housewife's home while the husband is away... Or perhaps a pizza delivery man making his last unsuspecting delivery of the night to an all girl's slumber party... What I'm saying is that I like to picture myself in low paying delivery jobs.

I'm talking about friends and people around me who love the setting, and own several armies, yet have to make do with figures that don't represent them. The slight wistful expressions when we hear of new releases and know that again, no girls allowed.

Doesn't GW have an entire women-only faction in the Sisters of Battle? I don't play 40k. Is that a popular faction? Does its existence scream "no girls allowed" to you? Since representation is so important to you, do you play that faction personally? Do you seek out games with equal female units, like Infinity or Malifaux, or play Satyxis or Tharn units only in Warmachine?

The fact is, there are a lot of different games out there, and a lot of different factions within them, and if playing as female characters was important to you, your needs are well met elsewhere. Not every game has to hit every bulletpoint, and it's absolutely okay if a few games have poorer diversity and female representation as long as the field as a whole does not. No, you can't play female Space Marines, but you can play Sisters of Battle or play Infinity/Malifaux/Warmachine with all female armies - if that is what is really important to you.

 Sqorgar wrote:
Doesn't GW have an entire women-only faction in the Sisters of Battle? I don't play 40k. Is that a popular faction?

Not really (popular that is). I think there are some players that shed alot of money on SoB minis (cause they're all metal and I remember them being expensive even 10 years ago) and are patiently waiting for a new release that IMO ain't going to happen. It is not going to happen because through the years there was constant info that they weren't selling well (mostly anecdotal sources though, no official info from gw). If I recall correctly, JamesY (a former GW employee), here on dakka, stated the same, though I don't want to put words in his mouth. There are sprinkled female models here and there, but if they're not selling well (part of this may be that GW's female models are quite bad IMO ) on a global scale, can you blame GW not doing more? For me, female characters are out of place in the ranks of the Stormcast. Another army may be made, composed entirely of fighting women, and it would be ok by me. I want faction consistency true to stereotypes (legions of testosterone pumped heavy warriors, orders of zealous war-priestess etc.)

 CoreCommander wrote:

 Sqorgar wrote:
Doesn't GW have an entire women-only faction in the Sisters of Battle? I don't play 40k. Is that a popular faction?

Not really (popular that is). I think there are some players that shed alot of money on SoB minis (cause they're all metal and I remember them being expensive even 10 years ago) and are patiently waiting for a new release that IMO ain't going to happen. It is not going to happen because through the years there was constant info that they weren't selling well (mostly anecdotal sources though, no official info from gw). If I recall correctly, JamesY (a former GW employee), here on dakka, stated the same, though I don't want to put words in his mouth. There are sprinkled female models here and there, but if they're not selling well (part of this may be that GW's female models are quite bad IMO ) on a global scale, can you blame GW not doing more? For me, female characters are out of place in the ranks of the Stormcast. Another army may be made, composed entirely of fighting women, and it would be ok by me. I want faction consistency true to stereotypes (legions of testosterone pumped heavy warriors, orders of zealous war-priestess etc.)

The Sisters army is virtually unsupported and GW have a strange attitude to it - its virtually ignored in the rules but now and again someone in the company seems to have a burst of enthusiam (see the massive coverage in Sheidl of Baal but agian nothing rules wise) and then forgets about it.

Now there are several old chestnuts floating around that people tend to trot out:

Female figures are somehow too difficult to sculpt - despite the fact that GW itself (when it can be bothered) can do it and do it well - the recent female wood elves were very nice and in non heroric scale. So i call False on this one
Female figures / armies don't sell - plenty of these sold by other companies and more and more being made all the time - So I call false on this one.

Gw has been in a self fulffing prophercy with armies like SOB -

1) we don'l make many, support them with new rules and they aere expensive -
2) we don't sell many
3) hmm so lets make less and support less and concentrate on different coloured marines
4) we sell less

back on to the main topic - there is no current fluff reason why there are not female Stormcast apart from GW apparently can;t be bothered.