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 Hulksmash wrote:
Betrayal at Calth was actually a pretty good board game. Just sayin.....

Assassin one is fun but nothing super special. The only real crappy release was dreadfleet and even that's fun if you don't mind to much random.

+1. Calth is particularly fun. If anything there's a visible upward trend in the quality of both the value proposition of the models in the box and the rules, if you look at recent history. They even reprinted Space Hulk with some new bits. There was a time to be unreasonably skeptical about new board games from GW, but it's behind us.

Sounds interesting, particularly if in 6mm. Aircraft are the one aspect of my Epic armies that are woefully absent!

 Ratius wrote:

Could its rules be adapted to fit 40k scale flyers just for laughs?

They did this at a FW open day, once. Made some upscaled AI bases and maneuver cards, and used FW 40k scale aircraft in a BIG open space.

It looked absolutely awesome, from the pictures I saw.

 Sledgehammer wrote:
Why would they implement space marine flyers before the Imperial Navy? The space marines just don't have the same kind of scale or impact in the air as the Imperial Navy.

Space Marines always come first, irrespective of their appropriateness.

Do Marines even have suitable aircraft?

Thanks to FW, they do now.

@BrookM - I can just see it. New game! Use your existing models! All you need to do is have 24 Forge World flyers each!

By the way, I love the Xipher pattern interceptor. I wish its rules weren't so bad. Will probably still buy one at some point :X

Xiphon.

Of course, you've also got the Thunderhawk Gunship, Thunderhawk Transporters, Storm Eagle, Fire Raptor, Xiphon and with possibilities for the Caestus, Dreadclaw and Kharybdis.

Space Marines make a lot of sense when you realise they can tie them into 30k. Bolt on the Lightning, Avenger, Thunderbolt, the 4 or more Marauder variants, vulture, vallyrie, etc etc and you've got quite a lot of choice for Imperial Aircraft already.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Betrayal at Calth was actually a pretty good board game. Just sayin

Indeed.

The game itself is very playable.

Well worth checking out.

A bit dissapointed that it seems that the first 3 specialist games that will be released are games that I either have no interest in (epic, AI), or that i'm fed up with (blood bowl).

Can't wait for NEvromunda, Inquisotor or Mordheim

An Aeronautica Imperialis like game will be acceptable only with Epic scale models, but if the rumors are true and there will be 4 factions I presume GW will release a lot of different types of airplanes. My FW Epic Vampire Hunter is waiting.

It's weird because I had pretty much forgotten about Aeronautica Imperialis.

I have the books but never actually played the game.

I have also never really been a fan of games like X-Wing, I tried it but didn't really get on with it.

However strangely the idea of playing a game "like" X-Wing but with 40K models has got me quite excited.

I have to say I have bought all of the boxed games (Space Hulk, Execution Force, BaC) and found them all to be quite good fun so I have high hopes for this.

Personally though I think 6mm is too small a scale for this outside of the context of Epic. In other words if it's a standalone game I would prefer it to be a marginally bigger scale, maybe 10mm, just so I can play with the tiny plastic planes but still be able to enjoy painting them.

Having said that if it then eventually ties into a larger setting such as Epic I wouldn't mind too much.

Either way this is a game that's come pretty much out of left field for me, wasn't expecting them to do this at all, but if it does come out I don't doubt I'll buy it.

If GW releases a boxset with plastic models, I will be buying into it. I enjoy the 40K IP and would gladly spend money on a second 40K universe game that does not require the same level of buy in as Warhammer 40K.

I'm also assuming GW would produce additional items for a Specialist game in the future with this new relaunch. I think this is what killed the other games in the past as most folks didn't want to pay good money for a game that the company did not support, FLGS could not stock and had little to no player base.

Aeronautica Imperialis? A pretty unimpressive release from SG. Other than the ease of production by piggybacking on existing design work, why would this be more popular the second time around, as opposed to BFG or Necromunda? Also, for those of you hoping for extended support of these standalone boxed games, then you better buy the crap out of them. Just because GW resurrected SG, doesn't mean they're going to pour money into expansions for games that don't sell like they did the first time around. This is 2016 and GW doesn't touch low-volume, low-margin product anymore.

Hold the slim branch of hope in one hand, wield the hammer of doubt in the other

Well it appears that the new SG will be sold through stores, unlike AI in its first incarnation, which was sold only through the FW web store. Additionally it's perfectly reasonable to expect this to be available as a boxed starter, perhaps even with plastic components, rather than a book and a bunch of comparatively expensive resin models that you're essentially buying from a photo.

Equally, if this is indeed IA:2nd Edition then there's a possibility that the rules may have been refined for extra playability and have had any sharp edges rounded off, meaning it may well appeal to fans of the original, even if they own it all already.

It's also perfectly reasonable to see games that require less development, design and tooling time to come out first.

Anyone expecting extended support for SGs is likely going to be disappointed, as SG have never had extended support, but some sort of "ticking over" support now looks more likely, with a refresh every few years, which is a world away from the current status quo.

As for low volume, low margin? The "Start Collecting" bundles have already disproved the low margin, whether they're low volume or not really depends on the quality of the product, GW has the customers, they just need to make something a lot of them want to buy.

I will pass on AI, but I'll be all over BFG as I really want to run a rogue trader RPG campaign. Someday. Maybe.

That said, I'm looking forward to how they're going to handle the specialist games. Maybe they're starting with a less popular specialist game first to see how well their new approach will work? i.e., let's not completely feth this up with something popular like bloodbowl, epic or BFG?

/speculation

StraightSilver wrote:
Personally though I think 6mm is too small a scale for this outside of the context of Epic. In other words if it's a standalone game I would prefer it to be a marginally bigger scale, maybe 10mm, just so I can play with the tiny plastic planes but still be able to enjoy painting them.

Because AI shares the same scale as Epic it makes sense that AI would be released preceding or following the release of Epic itself.

Personally, if this is genuinely AI and GW don't botch it, I'll be buying it. I love AI, both the game and the models. The rules were easy to learn and difficult to master, the models were brilliantly detailed and most of them looked pretty cool to me.

But I'm holding my breath in case this either isn't AI or in case GW make a mess of it. It they pull it together nicely I'll buy it all, maybe twice

As much as I'd love GW to release Epic again, at this point I don't really see me buying in to Epic, it was a good game but I just don't see me spending the time to assemble an army for it. But I can definitely see myself buying up on AI.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Hopefully they make the Thunderbolt smaller, as it was drastically out of scale.

I don't believe it was, the Thunderbolt is pretty big. The FW Thunderbolt has the same wingspan as a Valkyrie, but is significantly bulkier. FW tend to make their models more realistically scaled, so I'd trust FW's scaling more than the tiny metal Thunderbolts that the main GW made for Epic.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Well it appears that the new SG will be sold through stores, unlike AI in its first incarnation, which was sold only through the FW web store. Additionally it's perfectly reasonable to expect this to be available as a boxed starter, perhaps even with plastic components, rather than a book and a bunch of comparatively expensive resin models that you're essentially buying from a photo.

True, just being on hand in a store may improve sales.

Equally, if this is indeed IA:2nd Edition then there's a possibility that the rules may have been refined for extra playability and have had any sharp edges rounded off, meaning it may well appeal to fans of the original, even if they own it all already.

This is where you might see some push-back from existing AI fans and where GW has the potential to drop the ball. How much mucking with existing rules does GW do? Rounding off edges sounds nice, but it's not really GW's thing, is it? Why make minor tweaks when you can re-work the whole thing? GW wants new customers, so demolishing old rules is their MO.

Anyone expecting extended support for SGs is likely going to be disappointed, as SG have never had extended support, but some sort of "ticking over" support now looks more likely, with a refresh every few years, which is a world away from the current status quo.

The older versions of SG explored plenty of nooks and crannies that GW wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole nowadays. If they release a remake of Necromunda with two gangs, how many other gangs would you expect to see down the line? Ratskins? Scavvies? Ash wastes nomads? Individual characters like Kal Jericho, the Redeemer, or the Caller? No fething way.

As for low volume, low margin? The "Start Collecting" bundles have already disproved the low margin, whether they're low volume or not really depends on the quality of the product, GW has the customers, they just need to make something a lot of them want to buy.

Boxed sets would be the high-volume, high-margin stuff. Expansions would be the low-volume, low-margin stuff, but it's the kind of stuff that the proponents of SG want to see and believe in their heart-of-hearts that GW will start producing again. I don't believe it. The new SG is being spun-off as a way to produce boxed games. It's not meant to cater to vets or people who want niche products. Those are days gone bye for GW.

 zedmeister wrote:
Of course, you've also got the Thunderhawk Gunship, Thunderhawk Transporters, Storm Eagle, Fire Raptor, Xiphon and with possibilities for the Caestus, Dreadclaw and Kharybdis.

Space Marines make a lot of sense when you realise they can tie them into 30k. Bolt on the Lightning, Avenger, Thunderbolt, the 4 or more Marauder variants, vulture, vallyrie, etc etc and you've got quite a lot of choice for Imperial Aircraft already.

I didn't mind that Space Marine flyers were mostly just transports and support aircraft and that they lacked a proper "airforce" with fighters. It gave more character and uniqueness to the Imperial Navy.

But then GW can't release anything without appeasing the majority of Space Marine fans.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I didn't mind that Space Marine flyers were mostly just transports and support aircraft and that they lacked a proper "airforce" with fighters. It gave more character and uniqueness to the Imperial Navy.

But then GW can't release anything without appeasing the majority of Space Marine fans.

Yeah, it's a little grating in some ways. Still, Marines in Epic and AI were never that popular compared with 40k - Marines in AI are really just three units and one of those was the Hyperios! The rest of the Imperial forces were all Imperial Navy aircraft.

As for Epic, if you wanted an Imperial army you played Imperial Guard or Titans. That wasn't to say Marines weren't good. They really shined in Epic and play as they do in the backstories - very fast moving rapid strike force that appear out of nowhere and hammer you to bits and then redeploying before you can counter attack.

 the_Armyman wrote:

Anyone expecting extended support for SGs is likely going to be disappointed, as SG have never had extended support, but some sort of "ticking over" support now looks more likely, with a refresh every few years, which is a world away from the current status quo.

The older versions of SG explored plenty of nooks and crannies that GW wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole nowadays. If they release a remake of Necromunda with two gangs, how many other gangs would you expect to see down the line? Ratskins? Scavvies? Ash wastes nomads? Individual characters like Kal Jericho, the Redeemer, or the Caller? No fething way.

As for low volume, low margin? The "Start Collecting" bundles have already disproved the low margin, whether they're low volume or not really depends on the quality of the product, GW has the customers, they just need to make something a lot of them want to buy.

Boxed sets would be the high-volume, high-margin stuff. Expansions would be the low-volume, low-margin stuff, but it's the kind of stuff that the proponents of SG want to see and believe in their heart-of-hearts that GW will start producing again. I don't believe it. The new SG is being spun-off as a way to produce boxed games. It's not meant to cater to vets or people who want niche products. Those are days gone bye for GW.

Agreed. Anyone expecting more than a self-contained boxed set is kidding themselves. There's simply no way that modern GW is going to maintain open-ended, full product lines for AI, and BFG, and BB, and... Personally, I'm still not convinced that we'll see plastic Heresy kits beyond the Calth box. These are for all intents and purposes board games, which happen to have wargaming-quality miniatures inside.

AI was/is a really fun, and in my opinion, tactically deep game...more so than x-wing. You had a handful of 'maneuver' cards which you chose from in secret, just like the dials in x-wing...these cards had to be placed somewhere in the model's path, and changed its direction, but also the altitude and speed. The key thing here was altitude and there was a notion of conservation of energy, along with the concepts of gravity assist and momentum that really made it seem much more of a realistic (than x-wing) tactical simulation game.

Certain weapon systems could only fire down to the altitude band below your plane, some could only target up, and some could only fire on the altitude band you were currently on. As was stated before, the concept and basic rules were easy to learn, and difficult (yet rewarding) to master. They had rules for ground based anti-air artillary, and many factions had bombers, so ground strike and bombing run scenarios were a real part of this game (and super fun)...not to mention the potential for linking games with 40k and/or BFG in an epic campaign style. Another example: factions had troop transports, which made for cool scenarios where you could try to shoot down your enemies' landing forces, affecting reinforcements in your next 40k game...

I'm pretty excited to see this get resurrected, and hope it doesn't change much (or get watered down to the 1-dimensional combat that is x-wing). My faction of choice was Tau though, so hopefully it is expanded beyond the 4 factions in the core set.

Howdy ^^

Just want to say I'm just the messanger (or in other words, i'm doing the news & rumours threads @ b&c in general), so don't shoot me ^^

Last information I got was that we may see one or two games before Blood Bowl, with Blood Bowl scheduled for end of this year, with Orks and Humans (test models done) aswell as Dwarfes and Nurgle (design step done) as initial teams.

Both Adeptus Titanicus and AI would make sense since FW can just scale down the CAD3D versions of their titans and flyers, and AI was FW's baby back then, keep that in mind

I'd really like them to combine the two,

swarms of flyers attacking 'king kong' style titans and each other would be cool

 the_Armyman wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Well it appears that the new SG will be sold through stores, unlike AI in its first incarnation, which was sold only through the FW web store. Additionally it's perfectly reasonable to expect this to be available as a boxed starter, perhaps even with plastic components, rather than a book and a bunch of comparatively expensive resin models that you're essentially buying from a photo.

True, just being on hand in a store may improve sales.

Equally, if this is indeed IA:2nd Edition then there's a possibility that the rules may have been refined for extra playability and have had any sharp edges rounded off, meaning it may well appeal to fans of the original, even if they own it all already.

This is where you might see some push-back from existing AI fans and where GW has the potential to drop the ball. How much mucking with existing rules does GW do? Rounding off edges sounds nice, but it's not really GW's thing, is it? Why make minor tweaks when you can re-work the whole thing? GW wants new customers, so demolishing old rules is their MO.

But this isn't GW proper, this is the new SGS which is apparently composed of FW and some new imported talent. It's apparently semi-autonomous in the same way FW is, so tarring the new versions of SG with the GW brush is possibly premature, maybe completely inaccurate.

Anyone expecting extended support for SGs is likely going to be disappointed, as SG have never had extended support, but some sort of "ticking over" support now looks more likely, with a refresh every few years, which is a world away from the current status quo.

The older versions of SG explored plenty of nooks and crannies that GW wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole nowadays. If they release a remake of Necromunda with two gangs, how many other gangs would you expect to see down the line? Ratskins? Scavvies? Ash wastes nomads? Individual characters like Kal Jericho, the Redeemer, or the Caller? No fething way.

Again, this isn't GW proper, so as FW has the capability and freedom to do random bits and pieces for the latest IA or HH book, I see no reason that this won't happen with SGS. They'll have a capacity to produce small run models in resin, which has a substantially lower upfront cost than plastic, so it's totally feasible we could get even more niche than has gone before. Now, we may pay £60+ for a 10 person gang and £10+ for weapons packs, but I can see it happening.

As for low volume, low margin? The "Start Collecting" bundles have already disproved the low margin, whether they're low volume or not really depends on the quality of the product, GW has the customers, they just need to make something a lot of them want to buy.

Boxed sets would be the high-volume, high-margin stuff. Expansions would be the low-volume, low-margin stuff, but it's the kind of stuff that the proponents of SG want to see and believe in their heart-of-hearts that GW will start producing again. I don't believe it. The new SG is being spun-off as a way to produce boxed games. It's not meant to cater to vets or people who want niche products. Those are days gone bye for GW.

Again, already answered. SGS has the capacity to do small run niche stuff, and apparently can get time on the HIPs presses, so, right now, the perfect compromise is still in the table.

For me AI would be one of the best things they could release. Taking probably the nichest title that GW released and had very little promotion at the time and opening it up to a wider audience (not to mention the compatability with Epic) would be really great for those of us who completely missed it the first time around.

 the_Armyman wrote:
Other than the ease of production by piggybacking on existing design work, why would this be more popular the second time around, as opposed to BFG or Necromunda?

Maybe the re-launch will fail and it won't be significantly more popular, but the lack of earlier popularity is an argument in its favor. GW doesn't make much money by publishing BFG 2.0 and giving all the former BFG players a new rulebook to use with their vast stockpiles of old models. They make money by selling to new customers who are buying entire armies for the new game. AI has enough of a core of former players to do some of GW's marketing work for them, but there aren't that many models available and the ones that are sell for ridiculously high prices. The vast majority of potential AI players will be buying new stuff from GW.

AI could be a bit of a gamble in the sense that I don't know how many people like the idea of 6mm aircraft. I love them, but I don't know how many other people would be interested in it. But I guess tying in to Epic helps.

The more I think about it, the less I think they'll do plastics for AI unless they massively change the rules. AI is only really suited for games of 10 aircraft or less per side, the only way plastics would be viable is if they remove the variety and only let each faction have a couple of aircraft types each. Either that or they change the rules to encourage much larger forces.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I'd really like them to combine the two,

swarms of flyers attacking 'king kong' style titans and each other would be cool

The problem with combining them is they happen in different time scales, not impossible but a bit clumsy. An entire game of AI would probably span only a couple of turns of Epic.

All this talk about Aeronautica is wonderful. Still, I'd laugh my arse off if it turned out to be a remake of Bommerz over da Sulphur River.

 Breotan wrote:
All this talk about Aeronautica is wonderful. Still, I'd laugh my arse off if it turned out to be a remake of Bommerz over da Sulphur River.

It could easily be that. Sulpher River is basically a board game, a few bits of card for the board, a dozen or so aircraft, small rulebook, whack a $100 price tag on it and hope for the best.

AI isn't really a board game, it's a smaller scale wargame that needs a wider array of products.