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Experiment 626 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
To be fair you aren't JUST a Daemon. You become a Possessed and therefore roll on their table.
Still isn't a GREAT relic but there's misinformation in your post.

And the fact that CS Possessed are arguably much better than standard CSM versions, as they gain both ranged survivability, (will either be Shrouded or move as Beast type), and for combat have the superior Rending & 3++ for taking other people's lunch money.
Add in the PotV Sorc for on-the-spot Malefic support and the possibility of an ap2 Force toy.

Oh, and CS Possessed are also handily Obsec, which is quite nice to have on an assault unit.


Sure they're not top end competitive, but PotV's is still leagues above the majority of the crap cluttering up the Black Legion & basic CSM lists, and I daresay it's far more optimal than something as insane as a CCW relic for bloody Imperial Guard!

Well, we can look at the Relics from each one:
1. The Vanilla codex has the AoBF and the Black Mace, which are both super excellent weapons. The Burning Brand is about 5 points too expensive but still a decent take. The Scrolls Of Magnus is just pure junk; you HAVE to take MoT and it costs 45 on top for something you have NO control of. The Dimmensional Key is T3 activation AT BEST, and therefore you were probably better off just rushing everything up the field. The Murder Sword is a terrible excuse of a weapon, seeing it has a VERY specific activation time and any combat monster worth its salt will have a good Invul or EW.
2. Technically, every artifact in the Black Legion supplement has a 5 point tax because you have to pay the luxury of VotLW. However, not all the artifacts are worth that. The Spineshiver is actually an okay weapon, and the Skull is our version of The Shield Eternal. However, none of them are worth the VotLW tax. The Last Memory is another Mastery Level, but the power itself is pretty meh, and it won't allow you to roll for another power. The Eye Of Night is entirely pathetic; if the opponent has no vehicles it is a glorified Heavy Bolter blast and Penetrating hits don't mean anything when glancing vehicles to death is much easier. The Crucible basically requires you to take the Skull and MoT with it, and even then you aren't much more survivable. Had it just been a rerolling Invul Saves of 1 it would be okay. The Hand Of Darkness is only one attack for a chance to hit a monstrous creature with ID. Not worth 25 but maybe 15.
3. The Crimson Slaughter offers Artificer Armor with IWND. That's just excellent. They then offer an artifact with Divination access and being a Spell Familiar at the same time, when the drawback doesn't matter much. The Horns are a mandatory buy at 15 points for anything not MoK. Their Crozius basically handles issues with morale for those that don't want Cult Marines (though Dark Apostles are still terrible). The Prophet of the Voices is actually still bleh, but being able to use Malefic and running with your Possessed is...okay at best. The Sword sucks though; it takes too long to charge up.

My personal vote for best relic is the Reaper of Obliterax from the Tyranid codex, primarily because it makes any Hive Tyrant or Trygon Prime beat most anything in Initiative, or at the very least go at the same time as other heavy hitters like Daemon Princes. Though AP3 in the write-up, in the hands of a MC it's AP2. It also has Shred and +1S, both of which are tremendous against those ubiquitous Gargantuan Creatures the Eldar and Tau are fielding nowadays. Throw in Instant Death on 6s and it's a solid all-around performer. I never have a list without one.

The worst relic is a toss-up between the Norn Crown for all the reasons previously listed and the Crozius of the Dark Covenant from the Crimson Slaughter codex. To me, power mauls are just annoying to field by virtue of being no better than AP4. The +2S isn't that great a bonus, nor is Concussive against multi-wound units that will garner a 3+ or better armor save against it. The "kicker" of granting Zealot to units within 6" of the bearer encourages (a) putting your Apostle--the only model that can equip it, I might add--on an edge where it can get singled out by savvy ranged fire, and (b) requires other units to be closer together than you might care to field them to gain the benefit that's not all that great. All of this for the wonderful cost of 30pts. WAY too expensive for what it does... and doesn't do.

the worst relic is probably the monster hunter of caliban its basically a 40 point power sword, this is actually an improvement, it used to be a 45 point power sword

Da Lucky Stick has my vote. It can make your warboss nearly invincible allowing him to tank for those speshul units you want alive. Doubling as a Waaaaaagh Banner that can join any unit is icing on the cake.

If we're including 30K my vote's for the Nanyte Blaster. You get a 12" S5 Ap2 Fleshbane shot that if it kills a model (with Ap2 and Fleshbane you're very likely to), on a 4+ you place a 5" Blast over the target, and every model underneath suffers the same effects. This can carry on ad infinatum until the entire unit's wiped out!

 Valkyrie wrote:
If we're including 30K my vote's for the Nanyte Blaster. You get a 12" S5 Ap2 Fleshbane shot that if it kills a model (with Ap2 and Fleshbane you're very likely to), on a 4+ you place a 5" Blast over the target, and every model underneath suffers the same effects. This can carry on ad infinatum until the entire unit's wiped out!

I disagree
The Mechanicum have a Relic that has no Strength, but Haywire
Here is the special thing, If the targeted vehicle is HIT, it gets 'infected' and takes 1 haywire hit per turn, AND ANY VEHICLE (flying or not) WITHIN 12" ALSO GAINS THE VIRUS AND SUFFERS THE SAME EFFECT (and ALSO have the 12" infection bubble)
This allows you to shut down mecha lists from other mechanicum,iron hands and Solar Auxilia

 Valkyrie wrote:
If we're including 30K my vote's for the Nanyte Blaster. You get a 12" S5 Ap2 Fleshbane shot that if it kills a model (with Ap2 and Fleshbane you're very likely to), on a 4+ you place a 5" Blast over the target, and every model underneath suffers the same effects. This can carry on ad infinatum until the entire unit's wiped out!

"


Honestly, as a Death Guard player, I have to mark it as a tie between the barbaran thurible and the phase walker. With the DG RoW, you get move through cover, so the Phase walker's key issue is mitigated, and you become a great objective grabber. But hte thurible, paired with the DG RoW to get rad grenades (or just take it on a forge lord) to cause a total of -2 T for the first round of combat is amazing.

If we are including 30k, the void shield harness has served me well.

 ionusx wrote:
the worst relic is probably the monster hunter of caliban its basically a 40 point power sword, this is actually an improvement, it used to be a 45 point power sword

Even a heinously expensive power sword is still capable of killing things.

Compare this to the whopping 75pts for the Eye of Night, (+5pts additional VotLW 'tax'), which is a one-shot only Large Blast (go-go-scatter dice!), S5/ap4 that inflicts a meager D3 auto-Pen hits to vehicles/fortifications.

It doesn't even get the benefit of ap1/2, and will be lucky to even HP a vehicle to death!

And it only cost 80pts and can miss entirely!



Ah Chaos, "winning" in all the wrong categories.

The two best ones are Gorgon's Chain and The Hunter's Eye. Hard to say about the worst ones, there are so many terrible ones. Monster Slayer of Caliban gets a dishonorable mention at least.