Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I dont get this at all.

Runes of the Farseer: Once in each Psychic phase, a model with this special rule can reroll any number of dice used in a single Deny the Witch test or Psychic test (potentially negating Perils of the Warp in the process).

How can a farseer force a reroll on an opponents psyker when that psyker does not have the rule: Runes of the Farseer.

I assume he's just looking for a debate for the sake of debating, which I suppose is trolling but I consider it to be a little different since YMDC is basicly a place to discuss the ridiculous consequences of a poorly written rule set being read as though it was written law.

@Zimko, I'm following your logic right up to the point of the reroll. There is nothing requiring it to be HIS dice when he rerolls it. Let's assume it was a different model's dice that also was in the farseer's army. What prevents him from rerolling his ally's dice?

 BetrayTheWorld wrote:
No, again because Fleet specifically tells us when they can do this, and limits it to when that UNIT is determining charge or run range. Such isn't the case with the farseer.

It says may re-roll dice when determining charge ranges. My lychguard are charging, we determine charge range, therefore we may re-roll.

If you say that the fleet unit may only re-roll rolls they make, the same applies to the farseer.

They are equally supported.

You want pure RAW ?
Someone mentioned earlier, Pure RAW your farseer is an inanimate object incapable of re-rolling any dice. So we go with RAI

RAI if a model can re-roll it means the player can re-roll that model's rolls, therefore it has to be the model's roll.

Pure RAW a model being allowed to re-roll something doesn't work. (just like the rest of the game)

Because a 'roll' as defined by the book, is when 'you' roll dice. According to the wording in the Rune's ability, the 'model' is doing the rerolling, and thus it can only reroll dice that 'the model' rolled. If a different model rolled dice, then the farseer can't reroll the dice because they're not his rolls.

 BetrayTheWorld wrote:
@Zimko, I'm following your logic right up to the point of the reroll. There is nothing requiring it to be HIS dice when he rerolls it. Let's assume it was a different model's dice that also was in the farseer's army. What prevents him from rerolling his ally's dice?

The context.

They are talking about the farseer, not anyone else.

 BetrayTheWorld wrote:
Even if this were the case, which I'm not conceding without further research,

Then by all means, cite a rule that allows differently

this would still allow the farseer to reroll dice from his own army's rolls, and not just his own.

All the other models in my army are, in fact, my models. So they'd still fit the bill for rolling and rerolling.

The ability to reroll failed tests and DTWs has been discussed in other threads. I would suggest you read those threads and find that you are incorrect in this logic.

Fragile wrote:

The ability to reroll failed tests and DTWs has been discussed in other threads. I would suggest you read those threads and find that you are incorrect in this logic.

I'm not referring to the ability to choose a unit to deny the witch when they aren't the target. That's not an issue here. The issue here is that his ability doesn't require him to be the one denying the witch to use his ability.

 BetrayTheWorld wrote:

Fragile wrote:

The ability to reroll failed tests and DTWs has been discussed in other threads. I would suggest you read those threads and find that you are incorrect in this logic.

I'm not referring to the ability to choose a unit to deny the witch when they aren't the target. That's not an issue here. The issue here is that his ability doesn't require him to be the one denying the witch to use his ability.

If you ignore the context, then maybe that is the case.

But, taken with the context of the farseer's rule, he needs to be the one rolling to be allowed a re-roll.

I'm like 99 percent sure that somewhere in the BRB it says that you can't re-roll dice rolled by your opponent. Fate weaver's special rule also clarifies this for his "roll ANY die once a player turn" power. I know that that's circumstantial, but it does set an intent-based precedent as well.

No rule gives you permission to re-roll an opponent's dice. Forcing an opponent to re-roll is very different than re-rolling their dice.

Therefore, Runes of the Farseer gives the Farseer the ability to re-roll dice that the Farseer rolled when rolling for the Farseer's powers or DTW for the Farseer's unit.

 luke1705 wrote:
I'm like 99 percent sure that somewhere in the BRB it says that you can't re-roll dice rolled by your opponent. Fate weaver's special rule also clarifies this for his "roll ANY die once a player turn" power. I know that that's circumstantial, but it does set an intent-based precedent as well.

Actually, this isn't the case, and all of the major tournament circuits, including ITC, have a house rule for Fate weaver so that you can't re-roll your opponent's dice. Otherwise, it allows fateweaver to reroll any single dice from any player once per turn. It uses the same language as the farseer's rule, except isn't limited to rerolling only dice used in psychic or DtW tests. They wouldn't need that houserule if the book clearly stated that you could never reroll your opponent's dice, which it doesn't. There is no clear statement to this effect.

But that still doesn't address the fact that even if we concede that you can't reroll your opponent's dice, the rules that would stop you from doing so DON'T stop you from rerolling the psychic test or DtW test of another unit/model in your OWN army.

 BetrayTheWorld wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
I'm like 99 percent sure that somewhere in the BRB it says that you can't re-roll dice rolled by your opponent. Fate weaver's special rule also clarifies this for his "roll ANY die once a player turn" power. I know that that's circumstantial, but it does set an intent-based precedent as well.

Actually, this isn't the case, and all of the major tournament circuits, including ITC, have a house rule for Fate weaver so that you can't re-roll your opponent's dice. Otherwise, it allows fateweaver to reroll any single dice from any player once per turn. It uses the same language as the farseer's rule, except isn't limited to rerolling only dice used in psychic or DtW tests. They wouldn't need that houserule if the book clearly stated that you could never reroll your opponent's dice, which it doesn't. There is no clear statement to this effect.

But that still doesn't address the fact that even if we concede that you can't reroll your opponent's dice, the rules that would stop you from doing so DON'T stop you from rerolling the psychic test or DtW test of another unit/model in your OWN army.

And like I mentioned, the same is true for fleet. However, that is not how anyone plays it.
Farseer can re-roll farseers rolls, unless given specific permission to re-roll another units roll, In these scenarios it is very clearly stated that they may re-roll another units dice.

No, because fleet specifies that it only occurs when the unit is determining charge range. That unit doesn't determine the charge range of other units.

If it said, "May reroll any dice used in run or charge rolls" then you might have an argument. It doesn't. It lists the subject of the sentence as "unit" and the verb that they are doing in "determining". Both of these requirements must be met for the reroll to occur.

That isn't the case with the farseer. Their ability is written differently, allowing for a broader interpretation.

Zimko wrote:
I assume he's just looking for a debate for the sake of debating, which I suppose is trolling but I consider it to be a little different since YMDC is basicly a place to discuss the ridiculous consequences of a poorly written rule set being read as though it was written law.

No, he's got a specific interpretation of the rules, and he'll debate until people give up trying to argue. The rules are pretty clear he's wrong, and trying to pull this in a game will probably just get you the middle finger.

 EnTyme wrote:
I can't tell if Betray is trolling, or just trying to obtain a "source" to quote when he tries to do this to some poor guy who mistakenly agreed to play him.

I am wondering the same. He started the thread with a misquote, was multiple times shown to be incorrect and yet insists his point stands. He should just give up with this sillyness.

This just really seems like an exercise in trolling the forum. Not one person has agreed with the OP.

No, you cannot do this.

For the same reason you cannot use the runes to re-roll your own deny dice during your opponents psychic phase, unless the farseer is actually doing the denying. The farseer is not 'active'.

There is nothing that triggers his involvement. I can see why you may think this to be the case, but the rule is clearly not intended to be read in such a way.

Also, I find your general attitude and attempt at 'breaking' the rules to be a bit much. I also saw your signature. You're the reason people think that way about Eldar players.

Finally, you posted in YMDC. Why ignore all of the answers given if you are going to continue blindly insisting you are right, despite the continued opinions to the contrary? Get your head out of your ass.