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 krodarklorr wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:

Only the Necrons can stop the Tyranid threat if they exterminate all life in the galaxy, but they lack the numbers to do so.

I disagree. There are still millions of slumbering Tomb Worlds in the fluff, each housing millions or more Necrons. They could very easily put up a hell of a fight against Tyranids.

The necrons certainly have the numbers to do it, if fully awakened and united. Their codex specifically states that if all of the tomb worlds awoke, they would outnumber the IOM.

Didn't necrons have a device that was like an exact miniature copy of the galaxy? The one where destroying one of its miniature planets/Stars would make the real equivalent go BOOM?

I've got a feeling a single Necron overlord could literally win the war if he had that thing. If I recall correctly, they don't like using it because it disrupts some sort of "balance" but if they REALLY wanted to, they could I guess.

"IoM acting up?" *swats against miniature-terra "Problem solved!"

That's the Celestial Orrery, which the Necrons use *very* sparingly, because blowing up stars creates imbalances in the gravitic fields of the entire galaxy. It is also not obvious whether pressing the button causes a star to super-nova immediately or if it just accelerates the rate at which it happens (so, press the button, wait two billion years, the star explodes, two billion years earlier than it otherwise would have).

The Farsight Enclave developed a Tyranid virus. Big whoop. The Imperium has done that before, and then learned that it's the worst way to kill Tyranids, because the next wave is already immune to it and has weaponized it to turn it against you. This was a dumb, dumb move on FSE's part, because the Tau are stupid-naive. This will come back to bite them in the ass.

 Psienesis wrote:
The Farsight Enclave developed a Tyranid virus. Big whoop. The Imperium has done that before, and then learned that it's the worst way to kill Tyranids, because the next wave is already immune to it and has weaponized it to turn it against you. This was a dumb, dumb move on FSE's part, because the Tau are stupid-naive. This will come back to bite them in the ass.

This also leaves lots a biomass for the Tyranids to recycle. Gauss weapons have solved this issue.

There are three possible victors in the 40k setting and who it will be depends on many separate factors.

The Eldar lack the manpower to win. They can maybe evade extinction by fleeing into the Webway but they cannot truly win.

This is also true for the Dark Eldar. More numerous than the Eldar, they still lack the raw numbers.

The Imperium is doomed. Bar the return of the Emperor, they are losing more than they are gaining. Though sheer size, it can survive for a time, but in the end it will fall. Even with the Emperor's return, it is unlikely that one man - even if he is so strong - can save the galaxy.

The Orks have lots of raw numbers, which might make them an enticing option. However, they cannot beat Chaos or Necrons at their own game, and the Tyranids beat the Orks in the numbers game, meaning that if the galactic situation develops into one that would play to the Orks' strengths, the Tyranids will benefit even more.

The Tau Empire is strong for its size, but even then it lacks the size and strength to compete with anyone bar the Eldar races.

The first possible winner is Chaos. Many other races are very numerous and relentless, but no one is truly without number in the way that Chaos is. As long as there is emotion left in the galaxy to feed it, Chaos will keep pushing, meaning that unless the other players for victory can eradicate those sources of emotion, Chaos will win through sheer attrition. This is also a key reason as to why the Orks will never win; Ork emotion does feed Chaos as well, and while the Orks excel at attrition warfare they can't possibly compete with a literally infinite enemy.

The second major player for victory is the Tyranids, and this is simply a matter of raw numbers. Tyranids do not feed Chaos, meaning Chaos will lose if the Tyranids eat all the sources of emotion in the galaxy. Being by far the most numerous race, no race can really otherwise challenge the Tyranid race in conventional warfare.

The last possible victor are the Necrons, though this is because they are essentially cheating. They have more soldiers than the Imperium has inhabitants, making for a decent base amount of soldiers, though not enough in itself to challenge the Tyranids. However, they have absurd technology like timetravel, inertialess drives and the celestial orrery that completely changes the battlefield, and this is why only really the Tyranids (though almost infinite numbers) and Chaos (though literally infinite numbers) can defeat them.

The most likely outcome is that Chaos loses because the Necrons and Tyranids wipe out all sources of emotion in the galaxy. The Tyranids consume all organic life and move on, leaving the Necrons behind to rule a galaxy now devoid of life (though it's not like it makes a difference to them). In this case, both the Tyranids and Necrons can claim victory, as both have achieved their goals.

Can't DE and eldar hide in the web way and have craft worlds evade hive fleets, essentially allowing the to ride out the storm? Also once the astronomican is gone, what will guide the hive fleets?

Also, is it possible for the tau to tech to develop to the point where they become nearly unbeatable given they stall long enough and evade internal collapse?

While true, they still have to deal with the Necrons afterwards, a war they can't win.

At best (if the Tyranids or Chaos wipe out the Necrons), the Eldar will rule over a galaxy now dead, and unlike the Necrons, the Eldar would consider this problematic.

 Ashiraya wrote:
While true, they still have to deal with the Necrons afterwards, a war they can't win.

That's true, though they could always just not fight and play the evasion game indefinitely.

Also theoretically possible, but I wouldn't really consider that a victory, either. Being a nuisance is not enough to deny victory if their enemy otherwise controls the galaxy.

There are rumors that the Harlequin God is in the midst of pulling some "great trick" on Slaanesh that's just now coming to fruition, one that's supposed to "save" the Eldar - presumably by making their deaths safe from She Who Thirsts, rather than resurge the race. I'm expecting an Eldar blaze of glory at the end, but then they will fade.

 Árn_Templar wrote:
Tyranids. It's impossible for them to lose.

The Tyranids will lose. They don't have plot armour.

The way I figured it:
The Eldar fall.
Humanity falls and drags Chaos down with it (or at least majority of it's support -- no cults, no popping into realspace)
Tau sweep in to fill the void (hurting Chaos even more), but they too eventually fall.
Orks persist.
Necron persist.
Tyranids enter the galaxy in full force, devouring almost everything.
For a time, it's a stalemate between Orks, Necrons, and Tyranids. But eventually Orks are subsumed by the Tyranids, and since they can't eat Necrons (who keep vaporizing them anyways) the Tyranids up and leave the now-barren galaxy.
Necron win by technicality.
(maybe perhaps life managed to survive by hiding in the warp/webways/other inaccessible places... or not)



Alternatively, the Emperor is reborn and kills everything. Booooring.

 Rootbeard wrote:
The way I figured it:
The Eldar fall.
Humanity falls and drags Chaos down with it (or at least majority of it's support -- no cults, no popping into realspace)
Tau sweep in to fill the void (hurting Chaos even more), but they too eventually fall.
Orks persist.
Necron persist.
Tyranids enter the galaxy in full force, devouring almost everything.
For a time, it's a stalemate between Orks, Necrons, and Tyranids. But eventually Orks are subsumed by the Tyranids, and since they can't eat Necrons (who keep vaporizing them anyways) the Tyranids up and leave the now-barren galaxy.
Necron win by technicality.
(maybe perhaps life managed to survive by hiding in the warp/webways/other inaccessible places... or not)



Alternatively, the Emperor is reborn and kills everything. Booooring.

Can't really argue with most of this. But since the orks keep regenerating through spores and gunk and stuff, won't that give the nids an unlimited food supply, basically making the stalemate between the orks nids and necrons an eternal one.

Orks still need nutrition. They can't regenerate from nothing.

DaPino wrote:
Didn't necrons have a device that was like an exact miniature copy of the galaxy? The one where destroying one of its miniature planets/Stars would make the real equivalent go BOOM?

I've got a feeling a single Necron overlord could literally win the war if he had that thing. If I recall correctly, they don't like using it because it disrupts some sort of "balance" but if they REALLY wanted to, they could I guess.

"IoM acting up?" *swats against miniature-terra "Problem solved!"

Yeah, the Celestial Orrery is pretty legit, but as previously stated, is very sparingly, if ever, used. However, if it came to the point of Tyranids devouring the entire Galaxy, I'm sure they would have a lot of uses for it.

And by that point, Orikan would no longer have a reason to keep his timetravel tech a secret, which is key.

I believe one of the following will happen if it comes down to a 2-faction fight.

1. The orks beat the nids, and rule the galaxy

2. The nids beat the orks, and eat the galaxy.

If the Nids show up in numbers ala the fluff that is hinted at, no one will be able to stop them imho.
Its possible we're the last Galaxy left for them :(

Gamgee wrote:

 Lord Inquisitor Nathandar wrote:
Aren't the Tau currently going to get attacked by a Hivefleet I personally don't see how the Tau can do that much just because of how small they are

Farsight and his band of merry men used the power of science to create a virus that destroyed one hive fleet like nothing. Four tiny planet defeated a hive fleet. Pretty funny actually. At this point from a lore perspective it's only a matter of when the Tau are going to win. Unless something drastic happens, Just like no one ever expected the Skaven to wreck house in end times. No one expects the Tau to do much until they invent some sort of doomsday device.

What, you mean like the thousands of doomsday devices the AdMech/Eldar/Dark Eldar/Necrons have? Yeah, I'm sure that a single Doomssday device is totally going to let the Tau conquer the galaxy. No possibility of them losing. At all. Nope.

Ashiraya wrote:While true, they still have to deal with the Necrons afterwards, a war they can't win.

At best (if the Tyranids or Chaos wipe out the Necrons), the Eldar will rule over a galaxy now dead, and unlike the Necrons, the Eldar would consider this problematic.

You do realize that most NewCron dynasties (such as that of the Stormlord) make most Xenos they encounter into vassal states (Rome style), right?


Way I see it, it can go a number of ways:
1.) Emperor dies, emerges as a God from all of the energies he's been fed from worshipers over the millenia (humanity resplendant, Imperial Daemons, etc.)
2.) Tyranids NOM everything
3.) Astronomican falls, Chaos takes over most of Imperium, Abaddon causes the EoT to expand to encompass huge tracts of new space, and similar Warp Rifts open up all across the Galaxy (this could be caused by either Nids NOMing Terra or Chaos destroying it, either way, Chaos wins)
4.) Silent King unites IoM and Necrons against 'Nids, status quo maintained ad infinitum
5.) Necrons all wake up, Necron superweapons and sheer numbers allow them to conquer the galaxy, and subjugate all kinds of species. Necrons (and their mortal vassals) temporarily unite against 'nids, necrons win
6.) Whatever's chasing the 'nids comes after them, nobody wins.

Orks get their nutrition from the same spores that create them. When the spores begin producing fully formed Orks, squigs, snotlings and Gretchen are already made and has everything setup for the Orks that form last. They've already saturated the galaxy so even if entire systems get scrubbed of all life just one little asteroid popping out of its journey through the warp with spores can turn those lifeless systems into an or empire complete with a fully active and aggressive ecology. They bring their Terra forming with them.

Still I'm not so sure they will succeed against tyranids when their full force reaches the galaxy. Nids gaining ork biomass will create some pretty huge and resilient Nids. However I do thinks it's possible for the Orks to survive as a race and keep reseeding the dead worlds left behind by the Nids.

I wonder if some Nids will gain the Orks spores in their own DNA and with the ability to reproduce outside of the hive fleets become a subspecies separate from the rest.

Nids gaining ork biomass will create some pretty huge and resilient Nids.

Its already happening in the Octavius sytem.
Also. there was a piece of fluff stating that because of the constant fighting there, some Orks had reached truely gargantuan proportions because as we know orks get bigga and betta as they fight harder.
Really interesting scenario.

 Ashiraya wrote:
And by that point, Orikan would no longer have a reason to keep his timetravel tech a secret, which is key.

Yeah, I feel like Orikan could do some crazy stuff.

Based on where Ghazzy's fluff all those Nids in Octavia system are dead after Ghazzy showed up bolstered by the irks he gained from Urgroks Waaaagh nearby. After cleaning out the Nids orks were pouring in by the billions causing Ghazzy's warheads to erupt a psychic ping felt across the galaxy and even flickered the astrnomicon. They aren't there yet but the Nids noticed and a tendril is heading for the orks. Ghazzy is aware and is making plans to move to another Waaaagh to create the same kind of perpetual war as armegeddon and Octavia all over the galaxy. So at the moment those Octavia orks are big but the Nids that fought are dead.

I think it would play out the way it gets foreseen in Valedor (I think it was Valedor) - The Tyranids devour whats in the Galaxy followed by Chaos running rampant for an undetermined period of time and they eventually leave allowing the Necrons to rule for eternity.

Am I the only one who thinks that the tyranids might take a huge hit in the future due to a disease, parasitism or some sort cancer like internal conflict.

I completly forgot about The Silent King, he would be more intrested in destroying the Tyranids MORE than any other race, as his main objective is to make the necrons mortal again, and if the Nids' devour everything, he cannot achieve his main objective

I think I heard somewhere that orks can use photosynthesis

Tau aren't sloppy especially with their science. It targets only Nids. Perhaps if the Nids could absorb it which is easier said than done.

It was in the 6e Farsight dex as well. Nothing new. I'm surprised more people don't remember this interesting fact. What if they make a virus for every species they fight and all weapons from the FSE gain poison attack? That would be hilarious. Then regular TE gets weather control.

Quins are my vote. Sneaky and damn powerful.

Orks have already won.

They live in a universe of constant all out warfare, exactly as they want it. From their perspective, this is already the end game, and the more the other races struggle, scheme and fight, the more they like it.