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 Ouze wrote:

DutchWinsAll wrote:As long as you're at least semi-mobile the US already has a nationwide euthanasia measure. It's called the 2nd Amendment. Messier for sure, but not really less effective.

Maelstrom808 wrote:Suicide by firearm is no guarantee, and if it fails you can have some pretty horrendous consequences. More than one person has attempted suicide by gun and ended up simply removing thier face or turning themselves into a vegetable.

Indeed. I know anecdotal evidence... isn't, but I personally know a coworker who had her brother attempt to kill himself with a shotgun about 2 years ago. He did not in fact die - I don't know how that's possible with a shotgun - and he wound up with a slow lingering death after all.

Anyway, I fully support medically assisted suicide so long as the proper controls are there to make sure the person dying understands and consents to the decision they are making. Certainly if I had stage 4 pancreatic cancer, or something similar, it would be an attractive option.

All my personally witnessed gun-suicides died slow and painful deaths. And it's hard to intubate someone with most their face missing and trying to find the right blood squirting hole without a jaw or any other landmarks.

It's also been a little while, and I don't have the time to search and link it, but in a previous thread I talked a bit about the paradox of having to be of sound mind to legally commit suicide even though wanting to commit suicide is considered evidence of not being of sound mind. It didn't resolve anything, but I remember it being a good discussion.

 Grey Templar wrote:
If someone has a mental illness they are by definition unhealthy. Suicidal thoughts are a sign of mental illness, full stop. Be it caused by depression or whatever.

Suicidal thoughts are not automatically a sign of mental illness. Most of the time, yes, but the idea that there can be fates worse than death and that death might be a preferable alternative to such a fate is not an insane one.

 Grey Templar wrote:
If someone has a mental illness they are by definition unhealthy. Suicidal thoughts are a sign of mental illness, full stop. Be it caused by depression or whatever.

Yes, some suicidal thoughts are a sign of depression and therefore mental illness, but not all suicidal thoughts are depression/mental illness. A person who is told by their doctor they have three months to live, and it will be in either excruciating pain or nausea from the painkilling medication… isn’t mentally ill to prefer death to that.

Well one, most of the time when someone dies someone is getting their stuff. Currently its not legal to kill someone in end of life care. If you open up an avenue where its legal for someone in this situation to be killed by another person you are making it easier to get rid of an elderly relative.

What you’re missing is that very sick people are killed by the system right now. It’s just not talked about or dealt with formally. We just push that responsibility on to doctors and get angry if anyone tries to talk about that reality.

This is because we have the capability to keep people alive for years in semi- or permanent comas. They have no real life, their families get no closure, and it’s a terrible drain on medical resources. For very obvious, very compassionate reasons doctors take it upon themselves to over-medicate. You know how people always tell stories about how Aunty Mavis or whoever hung on until Uncle Tommy could get there from out of state, and as soon as he arrived and gave his farewells then poor Mavis died that very night in her sleep? Well, it isn’t actually a co-incidence, or proof of Aunty Mavis strength of will. The doctor simply held off until everyone had given their farewells, then gave her the treatment to help her die.

What euthanasia laws do is put a formalised, legal process to govern how that happens, and gives the responsibility to the sick person, or their loved ones, with a formal medical and judicial oversight. The chances of a improper, unethical killing decrease.

I am not nearly as invested in this social issue as I am with others, but generally I am uneasy about medical assisted suicide. I fully support the right of any medical practitioner to decline personally practicing this, be it on personal ethics, moral or religious reasons.

Personally, I don't believe it is dignified to ask any other human, let alone a medical practitioner, to inject chemicals into your body that will end it's life.

While I agree that this could be abused, I also find myself agreeing with those who would rather die than suffer through a horrific condition.

As someone who works with children and adults who have significantly life limiting illnesses, as well as with elderly adults who are less able to undertake their own care, I fully support the right to die, just as I fully support the right to live.

People should be free to choose their own path and their own treatment, whether it is end of life care or assisted dying.