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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

Oh boy, I still have another 4+ "FnP" to get through!

Except its not FNP - FNP you take after a save, RP you take at the end of the phase. Don't want them to make a roll? Kill them all. 4+ is still 50%
That's why you don't split fire against necrons.

That was the previous codex. Thats been gone since they got their 7ed codex

Now they have a better FNP

 CrownAxe wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

Oh boy, I still have another 4+ "FnP" to get through!

Except its not FNP - FNP you take after a save, RP you take at the end of the phase. Don't want them to make a roll? Kill them all. 4+ is still 50%
That's why you don't split fire against necrons.

That was the previous codex. Thats been gone since they got their 7ed codex

Now they have a better FNP

Yeah, I looked it up.
I preferred the old way. Having FNP +1 is kind of boring.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


Yeah, I looked it up.
I preferred the old way. Having FNP +1 is kind of boring.

It's funny, because "Turn WBB into FnP!" "Turn RP into FnP!" was literally the anti-necron rallying cry from third all the way through until it actually happened in seventh.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


Yeah, I looked it up.
I preferred the old way. Having FNP +1 is kind of boring.

It's funny, because "Turn WBB into FnP!" "Turn RP into FnP!" was literally the anti-necron rallying cry from third all the way through until it actually happened in seventh.

I know right? And when it finally happens - "oh noz! Its OP! Change nao!"

The reason why the roll happens at the end of the phase / turn wasn't only that made it a bit more unique, but also because it served as a balancing mechanic; you had a chance to wipe them out before they could regenerate.
Now you don't have that respite, which makes RP really powerful. Its also boring, because its basically the same as FNP, and as such the army loses a bit of its flavoring.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


Yeah, I looked it up.
I preferred the old way. Having FNP +1 is kind of boring.

It's funny, because "Turn WBB into FnP!" "Turn RP into FnP!" was literally the anti-necron rallying cry from third all the way through until it actually happened in seventh.

Thank you!

So many people said that they should simplify it into a FNP like save. Now everyone regrets saying that.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

Reavas wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

Reavas wrote:
In CC due to necrons lacking in the WS and Str department compared to other units they rely on their toughness to win combat, which is by no means weak although if you lose the combat as necrons and fail the leadership test you will lose your whole unit due to initiative.

WS and S4 is a really good in CC for your average, unkillable Necron.

This is laughable against any combat focused army like daemons or space wolves, thats why they arent unkillable just avrage at CC making CC their biggest weakness because you sure as hell arent going to outgun those unkillable bastards

Hahahahahahahahahaha

Daemons? Daemons will likely get shredded before they reach combat unless they are gimmicky. Space Wolves... Space Wolves... Outside of TWC and Wulfen, there isn't a lot that can threaten Necron Warriors in CC. Triarch Praetorians and Wraiths can still go toe to toe with both TWC and Wulfen.

So wait. You're telling me that if SW don't use the two best units in the Codex and possibly the best CC units in the entire game they aren't quite as good? This is shocking news! You are also greatly overestimating the effectiveness of our Wraiths (Seriously, people. Take out the Spyder and our Wraiths go bye-bye). They can take a hit, but they aren't going to be kicking out enough damage to be effective against Wulfen, especially with an attached Rune Priest.

Wraiths without the Spyder are still stupid hard to kill. T5 3++ with 2 wounds is...plenty hard to kill, requiring an average of 33 BS4 S10 shots or 432 BS3 Lasgun shots to kill a unit of 6. Add their speed in there to minimize opportunities to shoot at them and they're still definitley amongst the hardiest units in the game even without RP. They really are an autopilot unit, they're immune to morale/Ld stuff, terrain cant slow them down, their I2 can be ameliorated with wargear if it matters, and theyre resilient enough to be assured of making it to their targets.

Sure they arent the killiest things out there, but they're killy enough, especially against things like tanks.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Wraiths without the Spyder are still stupid hard to kill. T5 3++ with 2 wounds is...plenty hard to kill, requiring an average of 33 BS4 S10 shots or 432 BS3 Lasgun shots. Add their speed in there to minimize opportunities to shoot at them and they're still definitley amongst the hardiest units in the game even without RP. They really are an autopilot unit, they're immune to morale/Ld stuff, terrain cant slow them down, their I2 can be ameliorated with wargear if it matters, and theyre resilient enough to be assured of making it to their targets.

Eh, without the RP, most of my Wraiths died turn 1 in a game against Tau. That wasn't even with the Stormsurge shooting at them...

Tau having pretty much nothing under S5 and lots of BS and volume of fire enhancing gimmicks have a lot less to worry about than other armies, but even killing a naked unit of 3 with no RP is going to require 72 BS3 Pulse Rifle shots.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Tau having pretty much nothing under S5 and lots of BS and volume of fire enhancing gimmicks have a lot less to worry about than other armies, but even killing a naked unit of 3 with no RP is going to require 72 BS3 Pulse Rifle shots.

Or a single round of shooting from Missilesides can effectively neuter a unit turn 1.

Well, I have a Necron army. I wish they would be the deadliest foes out there.
They are close to.

Even with HYMP, you need an average of 30 shots to kill a naked unit of 3 Wraiths, or 7-8 Broadsides worth.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Even with HYMP, you need an average of 30 shots to kill a naked unit of 3 Wraiths, or 7-8 Broadsides worth.

Well, they certainly did a number on me, but I guess I may have rolled poorly.

I think that the formations are truly amazing and give some of the most useful attributes compared to other armies. I dont know if there is a way to math hammer the points vs ability but I think if you did you would find that the Necrons are OP.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Even with HYMP, you need an average of 30 shots to kill a naked unit of 3 Wraiths, or 7-8 Broadsides worth.

Well, they certainly did a number on me, but I guess I may have rolled poorly.

Thats always possible, Im notoriously prone to such. In 5E I had full wound Daemon Prince killed by 6 Fire Warriors in one round of shooting, their dice were great and my saves came up 5 failed 3+ and 1 successful save, so bye bye DP

 Vaktathi wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Even with HYMP, you need an average of 30 shots to kill a naked unit of 3 Wraiths, or 7-8 Broadsides worth.

Well, they certainly did a number on me, but I guess I may have rolled poorly.

Thats always possible, Im notoriously prone to such. In 5E I had full wound Daemon Prince killed by 6 Fire Warriors in one round of shooting, their dice were great and my saves came up 5 failed 3+ and 1 successful save, so bye bye DP

Good lord.

Yeah, it doesn't help in that game they Seized the initiative, I rolled somewhat below average, and lost 3 destroyers, and 2 and a half wraiths. That was a rough game.

Yeah, thats sounds awful, dice can always screw anything if they *really* want to

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


Yeah, I looked it up.
I preferred the old way. Having FNP +1 is kind of boring.

It's funny, because "Turn WBB into FnP!" "Turn RP into FnP!" was literally the anti-necron rallying cry from third all the way through until it actually happened in seventh.

Thank you!

So many people said that they should simplify it into a FNP like save. Now everyone regrets saying that.

Because it's not FNP. It's basically a 5++ save that you can take in addition do your armor/cover save and gets bonuses that can be denied.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


Yeah, I looked it up.
I preferred the old way. Having FNP +1 is kind of boring.

It's funny, because "Turn WBB into FnP!" "Turn RP into FnP!" was literally the anti-necron rallying cry from third all the way through until it actually happened in seventh.

Thank you!

So many people said that they should simplify it into a FNP like save. Now everyone regrets saying that.

Because it's not FNP. It's basically a 5++ save that you can take in addition do your armor/cover save and gets bonuses that can be denied.

Okay, and? Durability is the Necron shtick. Giving them a regular FNP would not only be Lackluster, but it would make them mid tier at best. They would fold to a ton of stuff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Yeah, thats sounds awful, dice can always screw anything if they *really* want to

Ah yes. Like a full Orikanstar charging a Stormsurge and doing no wounds. Then him rolling a 6 on Stomp.

God, gotta love this game.

fluff wise the necrons are easily the most powerful race out there by a large margin. mostly it comes down to there mobility and safety of there space travel. Not to mention they literally have the power to harness and control god power the ability to change the laws of reality. if anything was to be there downfall it would be there insanity. but even then they went billions of years to get where there at now sanity wise. pretty sure they could kill everyone in another billion years.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


Yeah, I looked it up.
I preferred the old way. Having FNP +1 is kind of boring.

It's funny, because "Turn WBB into FnP!" "Turn RP into FnP!" was literally the anti-necron rallying cry from third all the way through until it actually happened in seventh.

Thank you!

So many people said that they should simplify it into a FNP like save. Now everyone regrets saying that.

Because it's not FNP. It's basically a 5++ save that you can take in addition do your armor/cover save and gets bonuses that can be denied.

Which is what FnP is. A 5+ save that you can take in addition to your armour/cover save that can be denied. Or are you trying to declare that Sisters are overpowered because we get a 6++ on everything too?

turbolaser wrote:
Due to fact they have incredibly overpowered Gauss weaponry and devastating spaceships , self repair nano bots, imagine millions of necrons , they are nearly unstoppable?

Necrold overlord leading, is there anything more deadly than Necrod full strength raid?

An odd and inexplicable factoid: I have yet to lose to a Necron Decurion. Qualifier: I average 120-150 games per year. So this is really quite a record. I would have thought by now that I would lose to one.

The loss of Objective Secured is what does them in.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


Yeah, I looked it up.
I preferred the old way. Having FNP +1 is kind of boring.

It's funny, because "Turn WBB into FnP!" "Turn RP into FnP!" was literally the anti-necron rallying cry from third all the way through until it actually happened in seventh.

Thank you!

So many people said that they should simplify it into a FNP like save. Now everyone regrets saying that.

Because it's not FNP. It's basically a 5++ save that you can take in addition do your armor/cover save and gets bonuses that can be denied.

You just described FNP.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


Yeah, I looked it up.
I preferred the old way. Having FNP +1 is kind of boring.

It's funny, because "Turn WBB into FnP!" "Turn RP into FnP!" was literally the anti-necron rallying cry from third all the way through until it actually happened in seventh.

Thank you!

So many people said that they should simplify it into a FNP like save. Now everyone regrets saying that.

Because it's not FNP. It's basically a 5++ save that you can take in addition do your armor/cover save and gets bonuses that can be denied.

You just described FNP.

What I described is better than FNP. FNP is flat out denied by force and double strength. With RP only it's bonuses are removed under threse circumstances.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


Yeah, I looked it up.
I preferred the old way. Having FNP +1 is kind of boring.

It's funny, because "Turn WBB into FnP!" "Turn RP into FnP!" was literally the anti-necron rallying cry from third all the way through until it actually happened in seventh.

Thank you!

So many people said that they should simplify it into a FNP like save. Now everyone regrets saying that.

Because it's not FNP. It's basically a 5++ save that you can take in addition do your armor/cover save and gets bonuses that can be denied.

Okay, and? Durability is the Necron shtick. Giving them a regular FNP would not only be Lackluster, but it would make them mid tier at best. They would fold to a ton of stuff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Yeah, thats sounds awful, dice can always screw anything if they *really* want to

Ah yes. Like a full Orikanstar charging a Stormsurge and doing no wounds. Then him rolling a 6 on Stomp.

God, gotta love this game.

FNP is already hard to remove. Requiring an 8str weapon - d weapon, or a force weapon with force activated. It wouldn't make crons mid teir - it would make them counter-able.

 Xenomancers wrote:

FNP is already hard to remove. Requiring an 8str weapon - d weapon, or a force weapon with force activated. It wouldn't make crons mid teir - it would make them counter-able.

They are counterable, but they have guaranteed better durability than any other army. With their average firepower, lack of high strength low AP weapons, open topped everything, low initiative, lack of Fearless, no psychic powers, and if they take this awesome durability boost (Decurion) they can lose out on the Objective game. Sounds counterable to me.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


Yeah, I looked it up.
I preferred the old way. Having FNP +1 is kind of boring.

It's funny, because "Turn WBB into FnP!" "Turn RP into FnP!" was literally the anti-necron rallying cry from third all the way through until it actually happened in seventh.

Thank you!

So many people said that they should simplify it into a FNP like save. Now everyone regrets saying that.

Because it's not FNP. It's basically a 5++ save that you can take in addition do your armor/cover save and gets bonuses that can be denied.

You just described FNP.

What I described is better than FNP. FNP is flat out denied by force and double strength. With RP only it's bonuses are removed under threse circumstances.

Yeah, its FNP +1. Instead of being ignored by ID its just a -1 penalty.
Still functionally FNP. You still take it after a failed save, as opposed at the end of the phase for each fallen necron.

RP is a special 5 + save than can't be denied by double toughness or force weapons. It can be increased to a 4+ from decurion but that bonus is negated by force and double toughness. Basically Necrons always get a save unless they are stomped out by a titan or a 6 is rolled on a d weapon. This is absurd.

 Xenomancers wrote:
RP is a special 5 + save than can't be denied by double toughness or force weapons. It can be increased to a 4+ from decurion but that bonus is negated by force and double toughness. Basically Necrons always get a save unless they are stomped out by a titan or a 6 is rolled on a d weapon. This is absurd.

And Eldar can run and shoot with Fleet, not to mention their jetbikes. And Space Marines can have an un-manned Drop Pod (that was free) score them objectives. And Tau kick back with a cold one and shoot you before you can get to them. And Daemons can have 2+ rerollable Invulns that aren't ignorable, as well as being invisible.

Your point?

 Xenomancers wrote:
RP is a special 5 + save than can't be denied by double toughness or force weapons. It can be increased to a 4+ from decurion but that bonus is negated by force and double toughness. Basically Necrons always get a save unless they are stomped out by a titan or a 6 is rolled on a d weapon. This is absurd.

I'm pretty sure it can be reduced to 6+ from ID as well. At least, that's how I read it.

Oh, it is absurd, I agree with that. The previous rendition was better balanced, as if you focused down a squad they don't get to come back up.
Making it into what is essentially improved FNP was a mistake.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
RP is a special 5 + save than can't be denied by double toughness or force weapons. It can be increased to a 4+ from decurion but that bonus is negated by force and double toughness. Basically Necrons always get a save unless they are stomped out by a titan or a 6 is rolled on a d weapon. This is absurd.

And Eldar can run and shoot with Fleet, not to mention their jetbikes. And Space Marines can have an un-manned Drop Pod (that was free) score them objectives. And Tau kick back with a cold one and shoot you before you can get to them. And Daemons can have 2+ rerollable Invulns that aren't ignorable, as well as being invisible.

Your point?

In other words - Balance, 7th ed style!

Also, unbound, allies, aircraft that pretends to be skimmers, titans in normal games, etc etc.

I miss pre-6 ed. Times were simpler back then.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

I miss pre-6 ed. Times were simpler back then.

As much as I hated the 5th edition Necron codex, I agree with this whole heartedly. Titans would be fine if there was a downside to bringing them, or some kind of balance, added to the easy availability that every faction has a titan to field. (If someone says through Allies you can bring things like Imperial Knights, I will cut you. Allies in its current state is ridiculous)

On that note...

Solo 2016!