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Zelarias wrote:
Seems more reflective of India's old caste system and Hindu principles than communism, but ya know, any group collaboration for society is de facto communism to Muricans

It has elements of the caste system, overlapped with the concept of the greater good, and add in a touch of the old idea of what a Greek Republic was supposed to be since they try and give all their members as much say as possible, but are ultimately mediated and ruled by the Ethereal caste.

 EnTyme wrote:

Unquietemu wrote:
One of the books details a human auxiliary talking about how one of his buddies has his own home, children and wife on a tau world, and another tells of Tau firecast defending human defectors from space-marine slaughter. People automatically think of the worst aspects of the Tau when they bring them up, but fail to consider that most bad thing about the Tau are merely rumours (most of them from people who don't like that there *might* be good guys in the galaxy)

Did they also detail how that wife was assigned to him due to his genetic compatibility with her? Or that those children were conceived on a strict schedule? Slavery in comfort is slavery none-the-less. The Farsight Enclaves aren't so bad, though. Good thing Farsight took the red pill.

None of that is in the book at all. I think people often forget that the Tau let alien allies keep most of their culture and traditions, even if they may look barbaric to them. The book also details how Tau septs are like paradise in comparison to imperial cities. From what I have read Humans are used as example to human hiveworlds that the Tau aren't going to murder them once they except the terms of surrender, they might even move them off world to keep them from the imperium's tendency to kill traitors.

 Gamgee wrote:

Zelarias wrote:
Seems more reflective of India's old caste system and Hindu principles than communism, but ya know, any group collaboration for society is de facto communism to Muricans

It has elements of the caste system, overlapped with the concept of the greater good, and add in a touch of the old idea of what a Greek Republic was supposed to be since they try and give all their members as much say as possible, but are ultimately mediated and ruled by the Ethereal caste.

I can't find anything in the codex to support a Republic of any kind, especially when the council meeting is still them taking orders from the Ethereals without question in the Tau Empire proper. Caste divisions with interbreeding between castes being deemed impossible is more along the lines of Hinduism than the claims to Communism. There may be splashes of Utilitarianism in the Greater Good philosophy, but anything close to a Republic is nowhere to be found as far as I've been able to read about. Quotes for reference?

Zelarias wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

Zelarias wrote:
Seems more reflective of India's old caste system and Hindu principles than communism, but ya know, any group collaboration for society is de facto communism to Muricans

It has elements of the caste system, overlapped with the concept of the greater good, and add in a touch of the old idea of what a Greek Republic was supposed to be since they try and give all their members as much say as possible, but are ultimately mediated and ruled by the Ethereal caste.

I can't find anything in the codex to support a Republic of any kind, especially when the council meeting is still them taking orders from the Ethereals without question in the Tau Empire proper. Caste divisions with interbreeding between castes being deemed impossible is more along the lines of Hinduism than the claims to Communism. There may be splashes of Utilitarianism in the Greater Good philosophy, but anything close to a Republic is nowhere to be found as far as I've been able to read about. Quotes for reference?

You won't find mention of it in the books because it technically isn't, but there are some subtle similarities from a design point. It's subtle though. The point I was making is all these different parts that inspired the Tau or at least remind me of those things in real life. The castes mostly dictate themselves, it's only when a decision can't be reached that they turn to the Ethereals or when the Ethereals have a big plan in mind that needs tight coordination. Does the Tau do some evil things here and there? Sure, but it's a paradise by any other place in the 40k setting. Perhaps only the Craftworld Eldar could boast a "good" place to live and while its technology is incredible the society of the Eldar is extremely rigid with their path system and emotions needing to be kept under control.

Unquietemu wrote:
The book also details how Tau septs are like paradise in comparison to imperial cities.

Wait. You drank you Kool-Aid, didn't you? YOU NEVER DRINK THE KOOL-AID, MAN!

Seriously, though, people focus on the hive worlds and forge worlds when talking about the Imperium of Man, but there are actually more agri-worlds than either. Hell, the agri-worlds exist to feed the hive and forge worlds. Worlds of the IoM range from the dystopian to absolutely breath-taking (Paradise Worlds and Shrine Worlds). Hell, life in the upper levels of a hive is actually pretty nice, especially for the noble-born.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

Asura Varuna wrote:
So the imperium blatantly disregards the needs of most individuals and exploit them for the desires of a rich and power.ful For the Tau, the ethereal cast enslave their entire race, and coerce many other races in order to achieve their aims and goals. I don't see how those two things are really too different or why the Tau version is worse?

The Tau are brainwashing their citizenry to believe it. The Imperium only asks for lip-service.

This.


The Imperium of Man isn't some monolithic entity. It's a semi-decentralized feudal state.


Local governments run the whole gauntlet. Most of your Imperial Planetary Governors aren't there to rule the roost (there are some exceptions, of course). They are there to ensure that tithes levied by the Administratum are being met. As long as the Imperium get's it's tithes, they are usually content to let the local yokals govern themselves.


As long as your planet is loyal, adhere to the Imperial Creed in some form or another, and pay your tithes, the High Lords and Imperial agencies generally don't give a damn about your little planet.


The Tau Empire is far more imposing and monolithic than the Imperium. But there are cracks in their little facade, and they are growing......


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vaktathi wrote:

Unquietemu wrote:
One of the books details a human auxiliary talking about how one of his buddies has his own home, children and wife on a tau world, and another tells of Tau firecast defending human defectors from space-marine slaughter. People automatically think of the worst aspects of the Tau when they bring them up, but fail to consider that most bad thing about the Tau are merely rumours (most of them from people who don't like that there *might* be good guys in the galaxy)

Mainly because the background universe is all about there *not* being good guys, which is what rubs people raw about Tau quite a bit. There aren't supposed to be good guys. This is made pretty explicitly clear in the opening of every 40k rulebook.

"Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be re-learned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods."

That is the 40k universe, "good guys" don't fit in, and the Tau are far more interesting with their darker aspects. The whole "we'll bomb you until you join the greater good...and we may or may not be using some underhanded means to control our vassal races" makes them far more fitting than just being the goody-two-shoes.

The Tau were originally intended to be a "good" faction, to be a contrast to the overwhelming darkness in the setting.


But the neckbeards started going into DTs because they weren't getting the full dose of GRIMDERP and MEHTAL.


Since then, they have become the proverbial Saturday Morning Cartoon Villains, with the Ethereals suddenly growing Snidely Whiplash moustaches to twirl while they plot and scheme.

A purely "good" faction doesnt work in the setting, it's just not appropriate to the universe, and even their older books talk about Tau negotiations with human worlds being conducted under threat of air caste orbital bombardment should negotiations be unproductive, and whispers of weird goings-on with Vespids.

IMO, Tau are closer to Imperial Japan than anything else. Its the "Greater Good" motto that gets confused for communism.

Individuality is an illustion, we are all born into a social class that defines how we dress, how we eat, what we learn, where we work, how much we will earn, and what our children will expect in their lives. The Tau structure is a bit of a caricature of how society actually works. The real fiction is that such a society would be progression enough to produce such a high standard of living without a capitol based market. Caste systems tend to support an upper caste on the work of the lower castes, with each caste working harder for less than the one above. Tau talk about each caste being equal ... except for the Etherials ... and the Earth ... and Fire ... then Air ... Water. They even have an "untouchable" caste in the form of mixed caste children.

SJ

I have to agree with OP, When someone brings tau to the table I have never seen so many people flee in fear.

Or maybe it was disgruntled frustration, could be wrong

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Individuality is an illustion, we are all born into a social class that defines how we dress, how we eat, what we learn, where we work, how much we will earn, and what our children will expect in their lives. The Tau structure is a bit of a caricature of how society actually works. The real fiction is that such a society would be progression enough to produce such a high standard of living without a capitol based market. Caste systems tend to support an upper caste on the work of the lower castes, with each caste working harder for less than the one above. Tau talk about each caste being equal ... except for the Etherials ... and the Earth ... and Fire ... then Air ... Water. They even have an "untouchable" caste in the form of mixed caste children.

SJ

I wasn't ware they could interbreed. Most lore seems to indicate that the castes are genetically different inter breeding isn't possible anymore.

I wasn't ware they could interbreed. Most lore seems to indicate that the castes are genetically different inter breeding isn't possible anymore.

Once upon a time there was this half-eldar Ultramarine which caused Dakka Dakka to fall into civil war...