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SemperMortis wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Xerics wrote:
Unless you live where Ilive. Then if you play Eldar you will never get a game because the only gamestore in town is run by a guy who scares everyone from playing against Eldar or Tau by telling them its a waste of their time to play since you're just gunna lose to them anyways... I havnt gotten to play a game in that store for almost a year. I have to invite my friend over and roll out my Gamemat and play against Necrons to get any kind of game in.

Can you blame them?

Yes. That sounds like a ridiculous thing to do. I mean if they decide on their own not to play against someone, then fine. But actively telling people not to play certain armies in the game that you sell models for? What if they aren't even powergamers and are playing funsies lists?

I am assuming he is making that suggestion based on his observations of his areas Eldar/Tau players, IE he sees more cheese then a dairy farm. But this is merely a guess.

I can literally run almost any combination of army with the models that I own. It doesn't matter what I run to him. All that matters is that I play Eldar and thats enough for him to scare people away from playing. If I only owned a Bikeseer, Bikelock, Scatter bikes and wraithknights that would be one thing. As it stands I own far more eldar models than I can play in a normal game. Even dumping over 400 models of Eldar onto an apocalypse field can be pretty demanding trying to remember what you moved with and what has and hasnt shot.

"Is there a funsie Eldar list? "

"funniest" Craftworld list I could figure out:

HQ is 3 foot Warlocks, one is the Warlord.
One Wraithlord with two missile launchers.
One Fire Prism loaded with all possible upgrades.
Storm guardians with power swords on foot (no transports) for the rest of points.

Sonic Keyboard wrote:
"Is there a funsie Eldar list? "

"funniest" Craftworld list I could figure out:

HQ is 3 foot Warlocks, one is the Warlord.
One Wraithlord with two missile launchers.
One Fire Prism loaded with all possible upgrades.
Storm guardians with power swords on foot (no transports) for the rest of points.

Not having enough knowledge of Eldar as I don't play them and never have, I feel like I may not be totally in on the joke. Did you make the "worst" possible list you could think of? Or actually a list you found fun and fluffy that just doesn't incorporate any of the disgusting strengths?

 Purifier wrote:

Sonic Keyboard wrote:
"Is there a funsie Eldar list? "

"funniest" Craftworld list I could figure out:

HQ is 3 foot Warlocks, one is the Warlord.
One Wraithlord with two missile launchers.
One Fire Prism loaded with all possible upgrades.
Storm guardians with power swords on foot (no transports) for the rest of points.

Not having enough knowledge of Eldar as I don't play them and never have, I feel like I may not be totally in on the joke. Did you make the "worst" possible list you could think of? Or actually a list you found fun and fluffy that just doesn't incorporate any of the disgusting strengths?

Warlocks have 1 wound each and a 5+ invlunerable save. 35 points each
WWraithlord is like a souped up wraithguard that is a MC with T8 and multiple wounds. Gave it the worst Heavy weapons in the codex.
Fire Prism is Ok as it can deal with some lighter armored mobs of infantry or a single lance shot but probably the 2nd worst heavy support in the book next to the wraithlord.
Storm guardians are basically melee guardians with no heavy weapons platform.

This isnt a fluffy list. This is a "I took the worst units in the codex and mashed em together" list.

I'm just gonna say Eldar are op because of warp spider spam, scat bike spam, and WK spam. Everything else is much easier to deal with. In my opinion it's fine taking what you like, especially if you really like the look of the model- like WK or warpspiders, but try to keep to 1-2 WK and 1 aspect host of warpspiders. After that you could also make a very cool CC army with Banshies DE assult transports and harlies.

Thanks for the responses!

Looking at the situation I am quite glad that my favourite units of the game (wraith lords+fire prisms) are not some of those that are unfair. Should make it easier to build a list I love, that is also fun to play.

How practical is it to run a seer council? Ive heard they are pretty nasty to face, but they also seem like a hole lot of points...

I loved the warlock models though as a kid, and still have quite a few - so it is a tempting option.

Seer councils are really cool to use! Especially if you can get them on bikes. With bikes you can roll for invisibility, then do ignores cover and cast apocolyptic blasts for ap3 fleshbane. Without do gate of infinty, conceal, and then the latter, vortex of doom, or cleansing flame.
Vortex is super trolly because the votrex's still hang around for a few turns and cleansing flame will make any non SM player cry (as it is ap4 ignores cover). Both are fun and trolly, and in my opinion not grossly op
if you fail invisiblity you are dead, and you always need to save a warp charge to counter perils. But deffinatly fun to use!
Gate of infinty is fun to use to gate in units like Firedragons or WG. I've used it with GK librarians and Skitarii.
I own enough models to run 2 seer councils.(I've only got 2 bike seers though so no bikes for me). I did consider putting one in a venom to cast from being supportted and buffed by the other. The ones in the venom cast all the death spells and the ones not cast invisiblity and ignores cover. And if you can get a farseer on a bike to cast shrouded on the venom too in case you need to jink, or I believe there is a spell that lets you cast a 4+ invul, though not sure if it goes on the model who casts or if you can cast it on the venom

Eldar were massively OP since 2nd. You were probably too young to abuse it, but 4th had starcannon spam, wraithlord spam and seer council of doom. Its only gotten worse with each edition, and they are by an extreme margin, the most powerful army in the game. Some of their weaker troops far eclipses the strongest units of any other army. They can do survivalbility, powerful guns, strong assault, high maneuverability and horde all at the same time, whereas most armies can only do 1-2 of those things.

Also, to build a "for funsies" list for eldar, you need to go out of your way to dumb down your list. Probably a minimum of 3 guardian squads, 1 ranger squad, with elites, FA and HS all 1-0. No wraith units, no bikes. Even then, it'll still easily roll most armies. If you want more games, then increase guardians. Even guardians are a very good troop choice for their point-cost. Rangers are probably the only "ok" choice, and even then, they have plenty of utility and are devastating when played right.

Keep in mind that to you its fun-winning, but to your opponent its just a massive 3-hour ego strokefest.

Let me just point out that the people who plain refuse to play with you even if you are willing to bring down your lists power to have an even match are, in reality, really, really rare.

You can play Eldar just fine, and you have complete control over what kind of list you want to play. Just discuss with your opponent beforehand unless in a tournament.

Don't be discouraged by someone telling you that people simply won't play you, or by people who ruin the fun for everyone by being whiny when there is no need. Don't play those people, they are rare, and not required for enjoying the hobby.

I know there is a cool strategy where you use Jain zar and put her in a squad with 10 Banshies. Using the guardian host formation for gaurenteed run move of 6 inches, you can move 18 inches per turn. Pop in an avatar of khane and destroy!

marcman wrote:
I know there is a cool strategy where you use Jain zar and put her in a squad with 10 Banshies. Using the guardian host formation for gaurenteed run move of 6 inches, you can move 18 inches per turn. Pop in an avatar of khane and destroy!

that sounds like the kind of thing I am trying to do!

Thinking of a heavily close-combat focused army, that merges elder/harliquins, but with a lot of psyicic and a few dedicated shooting units.

E.g.

Strong seer council + shadowseer

Mix of close combat shenanigans as you mentioned + harli fun

A few longer range choices (maybe fire prisms, or dark reapers etc)

--

Question for you and others, how many formations are you allowed to take? I mean, its highly unlikely I will ever play a tournament, so is there a limit? a common agreement, or do people just accept the tournament guidelines etc?

Formations can be taken independently or joined in a CAD or put into larger formations such as decurion. There is no limit, unless a tournament States there is. An army I used required 4 codex's (Skitarii Cult Knight and GK). If you were wanting a CC army you may also wanna add in some DE for the assult transports. An interesting tactic is to get an aurtch and give him a bike powerlance and Banshies mask (no overwatch on charge)- comes out to be 100 pts, and then join him with reavers or maybe the harlie bike. There are also some leadership shenanigans I think it's called the flying circus or something but it involves Harlies de and Eldar . you could also troll and use the deathbringer flight and conclave of the Burning one with the deciver from necrons to do more leadership drops, and there's an apoc formation stormsurge which lowers it too. Then you use psycic shriek a lot haha

Off topic spam deleted.

Stick to the topic.

Martel732 wrote:
Is there a funsie Eldar list? Pretty sure I could grab random units out and trash the best possible BA list. (Whatever the hell that would even be)

Just play a regular list. But charge with the shooters and shoot with the chargers.

Is a wraithknight a melee or a shooting unit?

marcman wrote:
Formations can be taken independently or joined in a CAD or put into larger formations such as decurion. There is no limit, unless a tournament States there is. An army I used required 4 codex's (Skitarii Cult Knight and GK). If you were wanting a CC army you may also wanna add in some DE for the assult transports. An interesting tactic is to get an aurtch and give him a bike powerlance and Banshies mask (no overwatch on charge)- comes out to be 100 pts, and then join him with reavers or maybe the harlie bike. There are also some leadership shenanigans I think it's called the flying circus or something but it involves Harlies de and Eldar . you could also troll and use the deathbringer flight and conclave of the Burning one with the deciver from necrons to do more leadership drops, and there's an apoc formation stormsurge which lowers it too. Then you use psycic shriek a lot haha

Leadership shenanigans list is called a Freakshow.

 Xerics wrote:
Is a wraithknight a melee or a shooting unit?

Its a superheavy. Its both. With the default loadout, its is not very shooty. But in cc its a monster.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Xerics wrote:
Is a wraithknight a melee or a shooting unit?

Its a superheavy. Its both. With the default loadout, its is not very shooty. But in cc its a monster.

unless your shooting at something that really needs to die, such as an expensive vehicle or another Super Heavy. 2 D cannons usually kills most vehicles and super heavies in 1-2 turns.

I have 1 more question - which I may as well put in here, rather then creating a new thread..

When combining detachments/formations, e.g. having a D/E raider in one, and a Harli troupe in another.. can they start the game combined (with the troupe in the raider) ?

Thanks!

 old_acorns wrote:
I have 1 more question - which I may as well put in here, rather then creating a new thread..

When combining detachments/formations, e.g. having a D/E raider in one, and a Harli troupe in another.. can they start the game combined (with the troupe in the raider) ?

Thanks!

As long as its not a dedicated transport (because that require the unit that it was bought for to start inside it) then yes because they are battle brothers

Battle Brothers can enter eachothers transports, but not Dedicated Transports.

The transport needs to be bought separately, ie Heavy Support Land Raider, Fast Attack Drop Pod.

Thanks!

In that case, I think I have finished my first army list.

Will post it in the correct section..

Didn't anticipate how hard it would be, (having only memory of doing really really simple lists as a kid)

SemperMortis wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Xerics wrote:
Is a wraithknight a melee or a shooting unit?

Its a superheavy. Its both. With the default loadout, its is not very shooty. But in cc its a monster.

unless your shooting at something that really needs to die, such as an expensive vehicle or another Super Heavy. 2 D cannons usually kills most vehicles and super heavies in 1-2 turns.

Right. But its hit or miss. The usual melta syndrome.

 old_acorns wrote:

Reavas wrote:
Almost everything in the current eldar codex is pretty good, but even mentioning that you play eldar can set some players off and they wont want to play against you, so just keep that in mind when choosing an army. Dark eldar and harlequins are good but unforgiving, one wrong move and you lose the game (in most cases) but they are an awesome army

Did not realize the feelings against eldar were that bad..

Loosing really does not bother me - I fall firmly into the story/dramatic side of the game, where loosing or winning does not really matter that much. For me (considering how crazy expensive the hobby seems to have gotten) its just about trying to choose the right army to invest in that can give me some good competative games, without making things unfair, or having an army that seems so bland and dull.

Honestly some of the recomendations for eldar armies just bore me these days.. a farseer on a bike, 3x bike, 3xbike etc etc. and a knight (a unit which I have no interest in, as it seems to have taken the steam away from my childhood favourite wraithlords)

I like the idea of allies, and being able to marge eldar/harli/dark eldar in some cool ways to create a balanced and varied force.. (but equally I keep seeing lists that make me dislike allies, e.g. a full eldar army, with 1 unit of tau suits... that just screems 'I like eldar, but they have a new toy that I want to play with because its good')

Some people are insecure that their armies' codex is . Like, get over it, happens and if you don't like it play something else. I mean i'm playing Khorne at the moment, and have no qualms with playing against top tier armies, as long as it isn't a troll list.

Eldar have pretty much been good in...well...every edition since 2nd edition.

Sure, they have their gaps where they suffer a little...

But iirc...

2nd ed. Eldar were borderline insane for what they could pull off through psychic shenanigans, aspects and Warp Spiders.

3rd ed. Eldar had to wait for Craftworlds, then the glorious era of Saim-Hann starcannon spam and Ranger host ROLL ALL THE TABLE spam came.

4th ed. (and de-facto 5th ed) Eldar was a bit more bland but still gave us the comedy value of Harlequins, Jetbike spam (again) and Aspect powers.

6th and 7th ed...well....Wraithknigts. Scatbikes. More D than certain dodgy clubs in downtown Soho...you get the idea.

Martel732 wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Is there a funsie Eldar list? Pretty sure I could grab random units out and trash the best possible BA list. (Whatever the hell that would even be)

Aspect Warriors spam? Using one of each Aspect.

Still better than all the 7.0 codices hands down. A single unit of warp spiders beats the crap out of many BA units. Or Ork units. Or Tyranid units.

I'm pretty sure I've told you before but I'd gladly run 10 woman banshee units in an aspect host supported by the Avatar against you for a fun game.

I'm also using a list with 25 rangers a blob of Wraithblades, Eldrad and seerbuddy with a couple of D-cannon Wraithguard in Wave Serpents, I reckon that would fun.
I if what you say about your local Eldar player base is true then I don't think they deserve to be playing this game.