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 Ashiraya wrote:
The Mhara Gal has better WS, better I except the round the Leviathan charges, can stay behind a wall and charge through it to be more likely to get the charge, forces rerolls on successful invulns in melee, incur a -1 to hit penalty (as the Leviathan has a facing less than 13) and has IWND. I would not be so quick to say the Leviathan wins.

the rule looks like it means if the facing armor value is less than 13, not just having an AV of less than 13, since the front armor of a leviathan is 13, no buff there It won't be super one sided, but I still think to give the Leviathan the edge: he's cheaper, can pump out more devastating attacks, and has better shooting (his claw has a melta, + the Autocannon can do quite a bit of damage as well)

Actually, a Storm Cannon+claw leviathan is 305.

And Shroud of Dark Fire says 'a facing armour value'. Rear is a facing.

The storm cannon has sunder, but it's still S7 vs av13 (same with rg3 meltagun).

I am not sure why you say the leviathan's attacks are more devastating... the Mhara Gal is a vehicle, so their weapons are equal except the Mhara Gal forces rerolling of successful invulns.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Actually, a Storm Cannon+claw leviathan is 305.

And Shroud of Dark Fire says 'a facing armour value'. Rear is a facing.

The storm cannon has sunder, but it's still S7 vs av13 (same with rg3 meltagun).

I am not sure why you say the leviathan's attacks are more devastating... the Mhara Gal is a vehicle, so their weapons are equal except the Mhara Gal forces rerolling of successful invulns.

then literally no walker can hit the mhara gal unless it's a reaver or warlord without the -1, I still think that it's facing value, otherwise only Mortarion and Vulkan can reliably hit the damn thing

as for why I put the attacks higher: it's less the claw (which if he's using he'll just throw it at lorgar for those multiplying wounds), and more the drill + other weapons it has access too. the sunder cannon (math-hammer wise) will strip off ~2 hull points, 3 if he's lucky, which is all he needs to take out a contemptor. For all of his buffs, he still has the same general weaknesses as a normal contemptor dread.

Considering the Mhara Gal will probably advance through LoS-blocking terrain, I doubt the storm cannon will do much.

The Mhara Gal also has 4 hull points.

Even with a -1, the Leviathan (along with anything else with WS3, 4, 5 or 6, so just about everything) will hit on a 5+, which is not all that bad - certainly not impossible like you say.

He is using the claw because the model is built with a claw. Even assuming he has magnetized it (I can't remember), he won't list tailor, and he's more afraid of the risk of facing Lorgar!