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I own about 6400 points of Word Bearers - by far the largest force in my local 30k gaming group, despite our numbers - so as I am very likely sooner or later going to do a 1v2 or even 1v3 match, I figured I'd see what the largest army I can assemble in a single Age of Darkness FoC is, while also sticking to some nice and round number. As far as I can see, this would be 4,000.

HQ


Troops


Elites


Fast Attack


Heavy Support


Lords of War


I think this will be a quite fun and rather aggressive army to play. Lorgar goes with the Terminators, tanking for them with Precognition and using Levitation to get them into melee quickly. One Tactical Squad hangs back on the objective (which will usually be there), the other advances through cover with the Chaplain. Erebus goes with Lorgar (creating what I have affectionately come to name the 'Lorgarstar'). The Command Squad and Zardu Layak + friends advance in Lorgar's shadow (since Lorgar will draw such massive amounts of attention). The Assault Squad, Gal Vorbak, and Ashen Circle all deep strike into any suitable holes in the enemy line. The Vindicator, Contemptor Mortis and Sicaran advance carefully as required and pick out suitable enemy targets, while the Mhara Gal advances through LoS-blocking terrain to stay alive and stay away from my psykers and daemons.

Thoughts?

I presume you're not expecting massed armour or flyers?

To my knowledge, there is only a single flyer around in the entire gaming group, a lone Xiphon that my Sicaran and Contemptor Mortis should be able to deal with together.

There's not a great deal of tanks either, and those that are are usually on the lighter side (ie, not rear AV 14).

 Ashiraya wrote:
To my knowledge, there is only a single flyer around in the entire gaming group, a lone Xiphon that my Sicaran and Contemptor Mortis should be able to deal with together.

There's not a great deal of tanks either, and those that are are usually on the lighter side (ie, not rear AV 14).

Then I don't see any omissions

Good luck, Imperial Herald!

Looks like a really fun list. Please let us know how it plays out.

Here's an idea, maybe the Command Squad should go behind the Chaplain-less tactical squad?

The banner aura will make the tacticals Fearless and they block LoS to the Command Squad in return.

Your Command Squad looks pretty CC-oriented. I'd want them pushing forward personally. However, there's something to be said about having a CC unit hang back to provide support. To be honest I've never used a Command Squad yet, so I'm not quite sure what their best use is besides the banner.

EDIT: Aren't you only allowed to take 1 HS slot when using the Dark Brethren ROW, or is it 2 (don't have the material with me)?

You are correct, I am limited to one HS slot. I'll just drop the RoW then.

I would just drop the vindicator but I don't know what to add in its stead. 5 Seekers?

Another mortis could be a shout, can't have enough dakka.

Out of Elite slots.

Yeah, thought they could be taken in a talon haha. I wouldn't suggest seekers though, fielded them quite a few times and wasn't too impressed, probably my bad dice rolling though.

well, you could run the 2 mortis dreads as regular dreads with dual kheres, but that comes with it's own problems. Beyond that I like your list (if not for the fact that I at least want 1 game of multiple tactical squads slugging it out) however, I wonder if the 10 terminators really is the best place for Lorgar. Yeah, it would make them super tanky, but I think prescience (you cheese monger, you ) would be better suited for the Gal Vorbak, assuming he can join that squad. But lorgar with 10 of those (or even 5 of those) is down right killy.

Precognition, not prescience.

I usually run him with the Gal Vorbak, but as they are deep striking and faster than the Terminators, Lorgar seems more logical to lead them.

I actually only have one Mortis dread - I have a regular Contemptor too, but taking it would necessitate downgrading the Kheres one to a normal (losing the targeting array in the process). I don't want that.

Doesn't Zardu Layak make Ashen Circle troops? Since that'd make them scoring, I'd take the option if you have it.

If you're deep striking the Gal Vorbak and Ashen Circle, and - especially - the 20-man assault squad, can you get a Nuncio-Vox forward somehow? I'm not sure if the Terminators have the option for one.

Only if he is Warlord, which is impossible with Lorgar in the force.

I could reduce one of the tactical squads to 10 man, remove the Vindicator, and add a veteran tactical squad with a Nuncio-Vox, though! It seems like an attractive choice, especially since the ones sitting on the objective don't need to be more than 10.

It'd necessitate taking Pride of the Legion, though...

just give one of the 20-man squads a nuncio vox, or get ahold of 5 scouts and use them. more durable then a vet. squad AND you get to keep the vindicator.

Huh. I didn't see that normal tacticals can take a Nuncio-vox. This makes everything easier.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
...How do you explain, fluffwise, a Nuncio-Vox working for Gal Vorbak deepstriking?

 Ashiraya wrote:
Huh. I didn't see that normal tacticals can take a Nuncio-vox. This makes everything easier.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
...How do you explain, fluffwise, a Nuncio-Vox working for Gal Vorbak deepstriking?

"hey boss, send the exalted ones to these co-ordinates, we're in range of the enemy"

Depending on how daemon-y you are modeling your Word Bearers, you could could also consider using a Daemon Banner or Daemon Instrument as a 'counts as' nuncio-vox. Just an idea, I think it would be cool modelling idea for deep-striking daemon fluff...maybe it wouldn't make much sense to represent the barrage buff the nucnio-voxes have.

 Brennonjw wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Huh. I didn't see that normal tacticals can take a Nuncio-vox. This makes everything easier.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
...How do you explain, fluffwise, a Nuncio-Vox working for Gal Vorbak deepstriking?

"hey boss, send the exalted ones to these co-ordinates, we're in range of the enemy"

Tbh, signaling that 'now is the time, finish the ritual' makes sense.

Actually, is a Precognition Lorgarstar cheesy? When I used it against a Death Guard player, I won by the skin of my teeth, but then he did have a -lot- of Grave Wardens.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Actually, is a Precognition Lorgarstar cheesy? When I used it against a Death Guard player, I won by the skin of my teeth, but then he did have a -lot- of Grave Wardens.

speaking as a DG player who has recently fallen in love with Grave Wardens (my god, all that for NO price hike?), all they can do is try to stall him and hope you keep failing re-rollable invulns. The cheese is really in how you use his Precognition. In a 10-man terminator squad so they have a re-rolling 4+ if they get hit my AP: 2 is amazing, and it only goes downhill from there if you add in Gal Vorbak or daemon allies. Back this up with some of the other spells he can pull and you can see that there really is a reason why Lorgar Transfigured is amazing.

Anyway Lorgar super saiyan is one of the best primarch thanks to his psychic powers. Most of thte time i'd say that prescience and precog are must have for his powers if you run him with termis or gal vorbak (most effective unit to join IMO). For the third power it depends the situation.

A fun build is to bring him with a good plasma gun support squad (between 7 and 10 guys) use levitation to get in rapid fire range then perfect timing for no cover and finally just "watch the world burn"

So long as they don't ruin him, Magnus will be fun to throw at Lorgar for some nice revenge on the local WB player

 Ashiraya wrote:
Actually, is a Precognition Lorgarstar cheesy?

Not cheesy at all IMO. If you could spam Lorgars, I'd probbaly change my mind, but since you can only take 1, I wouldn't feel bad about it in the least.

As always, if a horrible mismatch occurs, do not repeat the mismatch.

 Brennonjw wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Actually, is a Precognition Lorgarstar cheesy? When I used it against a Death Guard player, I won by the skin of my teeth, but then he did have a -lot- of Grave Wardens.

speaking as a DG player who has recently fallen in love with Grave Wardens (my god, all that for NO price hike?), all they can do is try to stall him and hope you keep failing re-rollable invulns. The cheese is really in how you use his Precognition. In a 10-man terminator squad so they have a re-rolling 4+ if they get hit my AP: 2 is amazing, and it only goes downhill from there if you add in Gal Vorbak or daemon allies. Back this up with some of the other spells he can pull and you can see that there really is a reason why Lorgar Transfigured is amazing.

Precognition only affects Lorgar, not his squad.

Do not underestimate Grave Wardens. They put 36 wounds in one shooting phase on my Lorgarstar last time I faced the DG player. Of course, I rolled very well and saved them all but statistically that is just murderous.

And yes, I know, last game he was Levitating his squad zoooming forward, tanking with Precognition, and handing out Forewarning to any squad who needed it (usually his own, though this time they won't need it... Maybe I'll try some other power.)

I ask if it is cheesy because a rerollable 2+ is still a rerollable 2+, even if it is just an armour save.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Actually, is a Precognition Lorgarstar cheesy? When I used it against a Death Guard player, I won by the skin of my teeth, but then he did have a -lot- of Grave Wardens.

speaking as a DG player who has recently fallen in love with Grave Wardens (my god, all that for NO price hike?), all they can do is try to stall him and hope you keep failing re-rollable invulns. The cheese is really in how you use his Precognition. In a 10-man terminator squad so they have a re-rolling 4+ if they get hit my AP: 2 is amazing, and it only goes downhill from there if you add in Gal Vorbak or daemon allies. Back this up with some of the other spells he can pull and you can see that there really is a reason why Lorgar Transfigured is amazing.

Precognition only affects Lorgar, not his squad.

Do not underestimate Grave Wardens. They put 36 wounds in one shooting phase on my Lorgarstar last time I faced the DG player. Of course, I rolled very well and saved them all but statistically that is just murderous.

And yes, I know, last game he was Levitating his squad zoooming forward, tanking with Precognition, and handing out Forewarning to any squad who needed it (usually his own, though this time they won't need it... Maybe I'll try some other power.)

I ask if it is cheesy because a rerollable 2+ is still a rerollable 2+, even if it is just an armour save.

I was lied to! Anywho, I didn't want to come offa s bad mouthing the GWs, I love the bastards mainly due to the look on my opponents face when I say that they are now making a disorganized charge. Anywho, a 2+ reroll isn't really broken so long as it's not spread about, though agaisnst certain armies (or units) it really is super punishing.

I will face an alliance of Death Guard and Night Lords on Sunday, so this 4000p list will see its debut. Exciting!

I am particularly interested to see how my Mhara Gal will fare against the Death Guard player's infamous storm cannon + claw Leviathan Dreadnought who has been a real menace so far. If I get to melee I should have a slight edge, but who do you think will take the win?

 Ashiraya wrote:
I will face an alliance of Death Guard and Night Lords on Sunday, so this 4000p list will see its debut. Exciting!

I am particularly interested to see how my Mhara Gal will fare against the Death Guard player's infamous storm cannon + claw Leviathan Dreadnought who has been a real menace so far. If I get to melee I should have a slight edge, but who do you think will take the win?

Depends on who gets the charge just the other day I surrounded a Mhara Gal with a few lasrifle sections and glanced him to death with blast chargers.

However, the leviathan will probably win. If he charges he gets 2 S: 8 HoWs (could pen you), then 4 attacks at initiative 5 that could mutilate you, all while the leviathan has a better invuln then the Mhara Gal just be thankful he doesn't have a drill on that thing

The Mhara Gal has better WS, better I except the round the Leviathan charges, can stay behind a wall and charge through it to be more likely to get the charge, forces rerolls on successful invulns in melee, incur a -1 to hit penalty (as the Leviathan has a facing less than 13) and has IWND. I would not be so quick to say the Leviathan wins.