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CrownAxe wrote:Oh boy you beat one of the worst armies that was using one of their worst lists in the game. I'm super impressed

It's one of the worst lists in the game solely because of the meta.

Again, in and of itself, there's nothing wrong with an orks trukk list. Again, it's perfectly fluffy.

 Desubot wrote:

 Big Mac wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 Big Mac wrote:
From what you wrote, it seems you're TFG. Instead of playing with what's good, go with what looks cool to you. It doesn't restrict you to an 'army of vespids', but more in tone with fluffy formations rather than optimal tourney lists.

Not sure anything he really said is TFG.

competitive min max yes. but not TFG.

I'm reading 'sick of tau=him', not being able to find a PUG= opponents not wanting to face a min max list all the time. I'm trying to help him finding opponents to enjoy games with, not bashing him. Thus suggesting getting models on coolness rather than TT greatness, and if models happen to fall in both categories, not spamming it in his list. The OP ask for a 2nd army, yet one of the first thing he ask is what is great on TT for GK, if and when he flesh out that army, it most likely= same result as he have with his current tau army.

Well you know what they say about assuming.

TFG =/= competitive players. we dont necessarily know how he is playing or even what he is playing let alone the other peoples list or opinions.

5 pathfinders
5 pathfinders
Mark'o commander with 6 drones
3 broadsides with missiles and interceptor
1 riptide with interceptor and ion
3 fusion suits
3 ion suits
1 railside with skyfire
6 fire warriors
6 fire warriors
6 fire warriors
6 fire warriorsfire
6 fire warriors
6 fire warriors
Cadre fireblade.

This is roughly what I ususally run + or - a hammer head, or some warriors, or a few pirhana. I run the hunter contingent and ususally the drones being my 1 auxiliary choice. I tend to use the cadre fireblade to abuse the feth out of coordinated firepower.

Try running it as a CAD same stuff no extra rules at least until you find another one you like. The real skill is winning with fluffy sup-par army's

Jaxler wrote:I tend to use the cadre fireblade to abuse the feth out of coordinated firepower.

Orks!

Play CSM. Bring one Heldrake. Watch as people bich and moan and call you TFG for bringing an overpowered model...

The drake has been nerfed and isnt as good anymore for real but so many loyalist marine playes cry it is overpowered.

Grief wrote:
Play CSM. Bring one Heldrake. Watch as people bich and moan and call you TFG for bringing an overpowered model...

The drake has been nerfed and isnt as good anymore for real but so many loyalist marine playes cry it is overpowered.

...who? I would NEVER complain about a Heldrake when Wraithknights exist. That's just common sense

Swampmist wrote:...who? I would NEVER complain about a Heldrake when Wraithknights exist. That's just common sense

At this point, everybody should be able to deal with 1 heldrake. 3? Maybe not. 1? Definitely.

Traditio wrote:

Swampmist wrote:...who? I would NEVER complain about a Heldrake when Wraithknights exist. That's just common sense

At this point, everybody should be able to deal with 1 heldrake. 3? Maybe not. 1? Definitely.

Meh, most good lists can take 3 heldrakes, though if no-one takes fliers otherwise in your meta you might have a harder time

 Jaxler wrote:
My local meta doesn't seem to be very competitive, and unless I run an army of all vespids or something, it seems I table my opponents 90% of the time. I tend to be fairly competitive, and I'm finding that since most armies aside from space marines and eldar and kdk are gak against tau, I'm finding that things are too easy for me, and I'm finding that I'm not exactly sadistic. I prefer a close match whilst trying my hardest to win, and it seems that's hard to obtain while playing tau. That, and the people at my GW are getting sick of tau, which I can understand, and I like being able to find a pick up game =\

So, right now I'm considering grabbing a second more friendly army. Right now I'm thinking of a sort of inquisition and grey knight super fun army with a few imperial knights for flavor, and I want to have some advice as to what units in the inquisition and grey knights are good.

I took a look at the list that you posted and it really, really is not broken. Or even that OP. Sounds like you might just be better at the game than some of the people you're playing. Maybe they're just trying to kill your dudes rather than playing to the mission.

If that's the case, the best thing you can do is help them to see how to win. Correct their bad target priority, etc. You know your army a lot better than they do. Want to make your games tough? Help them make better decisions that screw you


You might also consider trying some actual tournaments out to sharpen your game, if you can find them. They're a ton of fun and you will definitely be tested.

What you should do is start attending larger events.

Look for RTT or GTs in your general area. Consider going to NOVA this fall. These events will change the way you play 40k.

 luke1705 wrote:

 Jaxler wrote:
My local meta doesn't seem to be very competitive, and unless I run an army of all vespids or something, it seems I table my opponents 90% of the time. I tend to be fairly competitive, and I'm finding that since most armies aside from space marines and eldar and kdk are gak against tau, I'm finding that things are too easy for me, and I'm finding that I'm not exactly sadistic. I prefer a close match whilst trying my hardest to win, and it seems that's hard to obtain while playing tau. That, and the people at my GW are getting sick of tau, which I can understand, and I like being able to find a pick up game =\

So, right now I'm considering grabbing a second more friendly army. Right now I'm thinking of a sort of inquisition and grey knight super fun army with a few imperial knights for flavor, and I want to have some advice as to what units in the inquisition and grey knights are good.

I took a look at the list that you posted and it really, really is not broken. Or even that OP. Sounds like you might just be better at the game than some of the people you're playing. Maybe they're just trying to kill your dudes rather than playing to the mission.

If that's the case, the best thing you can do is help them to see how to win. Correct their bad target priority, etc. You know your army a lot better than they do. Want to make your games tough? Help them make better decisions that screw you


You might also consider trying some actual tournaments out to sharpen your game, if you can find them. They're a ton of fun and you will definitely be tested.

Oh, I went to one once, and I plan on going to more. I got thoroughly wrecked though, and I'm learning that a static gunline is worthless against a list that you can't table (IE, almost all good ones)

If you want to mix things up and offer something different, go for an army that uses the game phases your army currently doesn't: Psychic and Assault. There are a number of armies that excel in these two so you might broaden your experience with the game as a whole. In a way you can add Movement to the list as your current composition seems to be either gunline or DS 'n' Dodge.

Armies that come to mind include (in alphabetical order):
Blood Angels (DS heavy)
Daemons (DS heavy w/ aspects of incredible speed [Slaanesh])
Eldar (Run & Shoot or Shoot & Run, Jetbike movement)
Grey Knights (DS heavy w/ great Alpha Strike)
Harlequins (Run and Charge Turn 2+)
Space Wolves (Outflank shenanigans, DS tricks, Cav and Bike speed)
Tyranids (DS capable, Infiltrate/Outflank options)

If you want to truly play something different Daemons and Harlequins offer the most "opposite" choices. The former doesn't shoot while the latter is too busy running to shoot, but both can have Psychic heavy options and great assault capability.

 Swampmist wrote:

Grief wrote:
Play CSM. Bring one Heldrake. Watch as people bich and moan and call you TFG for bringing an overpowered model...

The drake has been nerfed and isnt as good anymore for real but so many loyalist marine playes cry it is overpowered.

...who? I would NEVER complain about a Heldrake when Wraithknights exist. That's just common sense

I will say that I and moan when one wipes out most of a black knight squad in a single shot, nearly 300 points, when that same squad chews the feth out of a wraithknight and laugh when its two shots just drift harmlessly by

 kingbobbito wrote:

 Swampmist wrote:

Grief wrote:
Play CSM. Bring one Heldrake. Watch as people bich and moan and call you TFG for bringing an overpowered model...

The drake has been nerfed and isnt as good anymore for real but so many loyalist marine playes cry it is overpowered.

...who? I would NEVER complain about a Heldrake when Wraithknights exist. That's just common sense

I will say that I and moan when one wipes out most of a black knight squad in a single shot, nearly 300 points, when that same squad chews the feth out of a wraithknight and laugh when its two shots just drift harmlessly by

If they are that bad at spacing I love to see the salt from a pie plate

Traditio wrote:
Play orks.

Yip. You'll always have a game with orks, always have fun and everyone wins when you do this. Everyone. win or lose. Seriously. if you want an army that can CHALENGE a good general, and make it fun for everyone I defy you to find a more wonky interesting and good timing army than that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Big Mac wrote:
From what you wrote, it seems you're TFG. Instead of playing with what's good, go with what looks cool to you. It doesn't restrict you to an 'army of vespids', but more in tone with fluffy formations rather than optimal tourney lists.

Seems a bit harsh to me. He's probably right. he probably does need to do something different. I think he might be overstating things a bit though as far as how MUCH he needs to gimp himself. i personally find that creativity is appreciated by enemies and even if i win a lot, they at least liked playing against something that doesnt look like every dread netlist they've been reading about.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jaxler wrote:


5 pathfinders
5 pathfinders
Mark'o commander with 6 drones
3 broadsides with missiles and interceptor
1 riptide with interceptor and ion
3 fusion suits
3 ion suits
1 railside with skyfire
6 fire warriors
6 fire warriors
6 fire warriors
6 fire warriorsfire
6 fire warriors
6 fire warriors
Cadre fireblade.

This is roughly what I ususally run + or - a hammer head, or some warriors, or a few pirhana. I run the hunter contingent and ususally the drones being my 1 auxiliary choice. I tend to use the cadre fireblade to abuse the feth out of coordinated firepower.

I have to say: people complaining about this list? Weird. Looks incredibly representative of Tau to me. I dont see anything here thats "unfair"

Tropic Thunder wrote:
If you want to mix things up and offer something different, go for an army that uses the game phases your army currently doesn't: Psychic and Assault. There are a number of armies that excel in these two so you might broaden your experience with the game as a whole. In a way you can add Movement to the list as your current composition seems to be either gunline or DS 'n' Dodge.

Armies that come to mind include (in alphabetical order):
Blood Angels (DS heavy)
Daemons (DS heavy w/ aspects of incredible speed [Slaanesh])
Eldar (Run & Shoot or Shoot & Run, Jetbike movement)
Grey Knights (DS heavy w/ great Alpha Strike)
Harlequins (Run and Charge Turn 2+)
Space Wolves (Outflank shenanigans, DS tricks, Cav and Bike speed)
Tyranids (DS capable, Infiltrate/Outflank options)

If you want to truly play something different Daemons and Harlequins offer the most "opposite" choices. The former doesn't shoot while the latter is too busy running to shoot, but both can have Psychic heavy options and great assault capability.

This. There isn't a whole lot of strategy to running tau. Just rolling dice to blast em off the table and play keep away. I recommend expanding your horizons to learn to master the psychic and assault phases. Of the armies listed above, I suggest BA or Tyranids. These two are the most CC and psychic centric. Only problem with BA is it takes some thrifty skill to win on the regular. However if your meta is that casual BA seems to be a worthwhile investment.

Dantes_Baals wrote:

Tropic Thunder wrote:
If you want to mix things up and offer something different, go for an army that uses the game phases your army currently doesn't: Psychic and Assault. There are a number of armies that excel in these two so you might broaden your experience with the game as a whole. In a way you can add Movement to the list as your current composition seems to be either gunline or DS 'n' Dodge.

Armies that come to mind include (in alphabetical order):
Blood Angels (DS heavy)
Daemons (DS heavy w/ aspects of incredible speed [Slaanesh])
Eldar (Run & Shoot or Shoot & Run, Jetbike movement)
Grey Knights (DS heavy w/ great Alpha Strike)
Harlequins (Run and Charge Turn 2+)
Space Wolves (Outflank shenanigans, DS tricks, Cav and Bike speed)
Tyranids (DS capable, Infiltrate/Outflank options)

If you want to truly play something different Daemons and Harlequins offer the most "opposite" choices. The former doesn't shoot while the latter is too busy running to shoot, but both can have Psychic heavy options and great assault capability.

This. There isn't a whole lot of strategy to running tau. Just rolling dice to blast em off the table and play keep away. I recommend expanding your horizons to learn to master the psychic and assault phases. Of the armies listed above, I suggest BA or Tyranids. These two are the most CC and psychic centric. Only problem with BA is it takes some thrifty skill to win on the regular. However if your meta is that casual BA seems to be a worthwhile investment.

I can say that the "Sit down, throw dice, win game" doesn't work once you get to a certain level of play, though I will agree against most unprepared and non-competitive environments, tau are a low skill pub stomper. That being said, once you play against something like flying circus with securing objectives after leaving them, or scat bikes, or thunder wolfs with wulfen, you need to make your tau force mobile, learn how to kite and actually contest objectives. This takes some actual skill.

Exactly, all the tournament armies have three questions.

1) Can I not be tabled through Tau/Eldar/Cent shooting?
2) Am I mobile enough to avoid a Wolfstar?
3) Am I killy enough to kill a Necron unit in a single turn if I have to?

If you can say yes to at least 2 of those, you'll have a good time in a tourny. You fall under #1 because it is the most common so anyone with a bit of a tourny mindset will be planning for a army much more optimized than yours so you're running into a bit of a brick wall.

Oldmike wrote:

 kingbobbito wrote:

 Swampmist wrote:

...who? I would NEVER complain about a Heldrake when Wraithknights exist. That's just common sense

I will say that I and moan when one wipes out most of a black knight squad in a single shot, nearly 300 points, when that same squad chews the feth out of a wraithknight and laugh when its two shots just drift harmlessly by

If they are that bad at spacing I love to see the salt from a pie plate

They're not terribly spaced, it's just that no matter how I spread them you'll pretty much always catch 3 (or more if I did need to funnel them through a section or they just got out of CC). Losing 3 of 6 models thoroughly cripples the squad, and if you're relying on nothing but FNP it's certainly possible to lose 3.

The thing about pie plates is that anything that isn't a superheavy won't ignore my cover and have AP 3, so I'll just laugh maniacally while I roll my 3+++ rerollable.

Use lots of vehicles. Your win rate will go down.

Now that I have seen your list, I feel like it is not unbeatable in terms of how min/maxed it is.

I mean some armies will get stomped by you just fielding a tau model (KDK for instance).

That being said, a second army is always nice

 Jancoran wrote:

Traditio wrote:
Play orks.

Yip. You'll always have a game with orks, always have fun and everyone wins when you do this. Everyone. win or lose. Seriously. if you want an army that can CHALENGE a good general, and make it fun for everyone I defy you to find a more wonky interesting and good timing army than that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Big Mac wrote:
From what you wrote, it seems you're TFG. Instead of playing with what's good, go with what looks cool to you. It doesn't restrict you to an 'army of vespids', but more in tone with fluffy formations rather than optimal tourney lists.

Seems a bit harsh to me. He's probably right. he probably does need to do something different. I think he might be overstating things a bit though as far as how MUCH he needs to gimp himself. i personally find that creativity is appreciated by enemies and even if i win a lot, they at least liked playing against something that doesnt look like every dread netlist they've been reading about.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jaxler wrote:


5 pathfinders
5 pathfinders
Mark'o commander with 6 drones
3 broadsides with missiles and interceptor
1 riptide with interceptor and ion
3 fusion suits
3 ion suits
1 railside with skyfire
6 fire warriors
6 fire warriors
6 fire warriors
6 fire warriorsfire
6 fire warriors
6 fire warriors
Cadre fireblade.

This is roughly what I ususally run + or - a hammer head, or some warriors, or a few pirhana. I run the hunter contingent and ususally the drones being my 1 auxiliary choice. I tend to use the cadre fireblade to abuse the feth out of coordinated firepower.

I have to say: people complaining about this list? Weird. Looks incredibly representative of Tau to me. I dont see anything here thats "unfair"

They are more or less complaining about tau as apposed to my list.

Also, I'm probably gonna stick with grey Knights because I actually love the models and ended up with 10 termies for free from a bud of mine. Also the inquisition seems fun because of all the conversion I can (and should) do.

well there you go then. Grey Knights are very aesthetically pleasing (to me).