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 Swampmist wrote:
Seeing as Iron Hands do have, again, really influential librarians and a Libby-specific relic, I doubt they'll be without it. Wouldn't surprise me if Fists don't, though.

Look at what is in the Raukaan book, probably be a good hint what their version of the battle company will have.

Extra Techmarines, Extra Dreads. The formation will probably be either Captain/Techmarine/Chaplain with the 3/1/1 format and 1-3 units of dreads, with a boost if you are within 6-12" of the dreads, like with the Pinion. Maybe 0-1 Thunderfires, as well, since Techmarines.

The Imperial Fists also have a better Librarian relic than the Iron Hands. It lets them generate an extra warp charge and reroll failed psychic tests.

When is this out again?

 Nevelon wrote:
When is this out again?

Next Saturday.

 General Kroll wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
When is this out again?

Next Saturday.

Pre-orders will likely go live tomorrow on GW's web store. My FLGS has been taking pre-pre-orders all week.

Just wondering when we were going to get some solid leaks. I can never remember which week is the pre-order, and which is the release.

I really hope there is something in there for Black Templars. Either a way to use the Sternhammer with Crusader Squads, or a formation of Crusader Squads.

This 128-page softback supplement for Codex: Space Marines is designed for any and all Space Marines armies! Included within:

- a guide to Strike Forces and Chapter organisation, including 4 Army List Entry datasheets and 14 Formations;
- background and organisation on White Scars, Imperial Fists, Iron Hands, Salamanders and Raven Guard Chapters, as well as their typical Strike Forces;
- rules for the Terminator Captain, Cataphractii Terminators and Contemptor Dreadnaught;
- Warlord Traits, Relics and Tactical Objectives;
- four complete psychic disciplines available to Space Marines Librarians.

It's up on the NZ website. Anyone down under with an iPad can nab the preview and check for formation stuff, but given that it's 14 formations and this exists?


You're looking at, from Raven Guard:
Shadow Force
Raptor Wing
Ravenhawk Assault Group
Skyhammer Orbital Strike Force
Bladewing Assault Brotherhood
Shadowstrike Kill-Team
Pinion Battle Demi-Company

White Scars:
Stormlance Battle Demi-Company(amusingly enough, listed as the Salamanders' default as well)
Hunting Force
Stormbringer Squadron
Speartip Strike


So 11 of the 14 are known. 12 really, since we know it has the webstore Skyhammer bundle.

I'm not actually mad about them getting the stormlance; while it is faster than you expect Sallies to be, it DOES make sense as the "Run them Down" core.

EDUT: So, with sallies getting a unique Auxillery, do we expect that only one of the other two detachments will have a special Core, or that neither will do so? Honestly, it would not surprise me if Fists only get the normal Demi-Company, and just have extra buff options.

Likely you're just going to see unique Auxiliaries.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Likely you're just going to see unique Auxiliaries.

IDK, I don't know if I can see IH having any of the current core formations, unless they get like 1st company as a core for some reason. And honestly, I'm surprised that there doesn't seem to be space for a unique Fists core along with it. Is it possible the Firebringers will be a non-formation slot in the detachment, and the other two will have either cores or auxiliaries?

Skyhammer Annihilation Force (Boo!) and Contemptor Dreadnought Squadrons (Yay!) and the Anvil Strike Force for the treadheards.

and IG thought they had the tank army on lockdown

EDIT: so, anyone have a higher-rez image of the Sternhammer stuff from the white dwarf?

Command benefits for the armoured group:

Tank Commander: You may nominate a vehicle as your warlord, even if you have characters in your army. If you do, your Warlord has the following Warlord Trait:

Big Guns Never Tire: (fluff), At the end of your shooting phase, your warlord may nominate himself or another vehicle from this detachment within 24". That model may fire it's weapons again.

Armour of Contempt: Your vehicles from this detachment ignore Crew Shaken and Crew Stunned damage results, though they still lose a Hull Point.

I think that "May" is a "Must", actually.

 Swampmist wrote:
I think that "May" is a "Must", actually.

Really? My Squint-Fu is making it look like a may, especially since one of the options for command is a Techmarine w/ a Rhino/Razorback.

All four detachments are known now. There is room for two more formations. I keep forgetting that some auxiliaries do not have formations, so there is still room for a lot of options. Hopefully they open up the Gladius to take additional, non-formation auxiliaries.

I think it is odd that the Salamanders can take the Stormlance. Perhaps they might be able to take it in a Gladius in place of a BDC. I am hoping that Iron Hands aren't left out in the rain either.

It does worry me that one of the only things listed for Imperial Fists is the Warlord Traits for Crimson Fists and Black Templars.

The new formation is the 'Flamebringers' for Salamanders above. They said there is 14 new formations, no? So perhaps IH/IF are getting the lion's share.

We also know the Sternhammer is confirmed, but then again, if that's the overall detachment, it might end up being just a Battle Demi Company + a few different formations. Hopefully not, but...

Maybe you'll be able to take your Raptor Wing in it, at least? I mean, if Salamanders got it...

Of course, if the super detachment bonus isn't worth it, then you might as well either stick with a Gladius or a CAD.

Oh well, the Psychic Powers should be interesting.

The Sternhammer strike force for sure has two possible core formations, we don't know what though... Still, my bet is that we won't see all of the RG and WS formations, and instead will see more chapter-specific stuff for IH and IF.

I'm guessing the 14 new Formations is on top of the Kauyon ones. If they include the Decurions as formations, that's what, 4 new ones? (IH IF SAL Tanks?) And then the Flamebringers formation.

Then again, as long as the Shadowstrike and Raptor Wing are in there, I don't think people really care about any other formations out of Kauyon. And I already own the rules for the Shadowstrike and Raptor Wing...

It's not "14 new formations"--it's 14 formations. That's not "14 new formations and detachments"--the Detachments are considered their own count.

We know all the Kauyon stuff is confirmed and we know Skyhammer is confirmed, which is 12 slots gone right off the bat. That leaves 2 slots open--with Salamanders getting something called the "Firebringers", that leaves one more slot open. I'm pretty sure that it is going to the Iron Hands and not the Imperial Fists or their Successors.

At first I'll admit I was kind of puzzled by the Salamanders getting the Stormlance...but it kinda makes sense.
They tend to have a large amount of vehicles and they excel at close to mid range firefights. Having the ability to get out, assault an objective and then remount to go back in definitely makes sense with them.

Additionally, I think that what we might see with the "Sons of Dorn" Detachment is see Crusader Squads available as a Core or Auxiliary choice.

Hmm, fair enough. I might have misread what they meant by 14 Formations - I might've put a new in there somewhere there wasn't.

And the Iron Hands are probably getting it. Probably something Dread related? I guess we only have a few days to find out, but hey, we might as well speculate endlessly until then!

Anyone want to guess what the Flamebringers are? Sternguard required to take Combi-Flamers/Heavy Flamers? Or perhaps it will include Meltas too?

Is it possible that skyhammer isn't considered a "formation" in this case? It wouldn't surprise me if it is seperate to eb fair. also, the Flamebringers might just be a formationless-Aux choice; we cannot be sure yet.

The Skyhammer is most definitely a formation.

It could be, but again, it might not be. The Imperial Fists Decurion could just be a Battle Demi Company or 3-6 Crusader Squads as a formationless aux choice, meaning the IFs get railroaded into a Battle Company, but Black Templar get a chance to access a Decurion.

 Crazyterran wrote:
The Skyhammer is most definitely a formation.

It could be, but again, it might not be. The Imperial Fists Decurion could just be a Battle Demi Company or 3-6 Crusader Squads as a formationless aux choice, meaning the IFs get railroaded into a Battle Company, but Black Templar get a chance to access a Decurion.

But, based on the pic from the WD, the Sternhammer for sure has two core formations.

 Swampmist wrote:
Is it possible that skyhammer isn't considered a "formation" in this case? It wouldn't surprise me if it is seperate to eb fair. also, the Flamebringers might just be a formationless-Aux choice; we cannot be sure yet.

It'd be considered part of the count for the formations, but that's really all I can give you as an answer.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Swampmist wrote:
Is it possible that skyhammer isn't considered a "formation" in this case? It wouldn't surprise me if it is seperate to eb fair. also, the Flamebringers might just be a formationless-Aux choice; we cannot be sure yet.

It'd be considered part of the count for the formations, but that's really all I can give you as an answer.

If Flamebringers aren't a formation, but just a choice for the Flameblade, it would not be listed as a formation.

 Swampmist wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
The Skyhammer is most definitely a formation.

It could be, but again, it might not be. The Imperial Fists Decurion could just be a Battle Demi Company or 3-6 Crusader Squads as a formationless aux choice, meaning the IFs get railroaded into a Battle Company, but Black Templar get a chance to access a Decurion.

But, based on the pic from the WD, the Sternhammer for sure has two core formations.

l

The the same way that the Flamebringers are listed as a formation? :p

It could just be a bonus less non-formation with Crusader squads. Just like how the Flamebringers could be a non formation.

true. Though, the precedent is more likely there for the FlameBringers, as there are a good number of Aux choices in decurions that are not formations in their own right. I don't think any cores are non-formations though.

Could always just give the IFs the Stormlance/Pinion as well, but hopefully they get something Templars can use. Then again, that's what they get for not following the Codex Astartes. :p

 Swampmist wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Swampmist wrote:
Is it possible that skyhammer isn't considered a "formation" in this case? It wouldn't surprise me if it is seperate to eb fair. also, the Flamebringers might just be a formationless-Aux choice; we cannot be sure yet.

It'd be considered part of the count for the formations, but that's really all I can give you as an answer.

If Flamebringers aren't a formation, but just a choice for the Flameblade, it would not be listed as a formation.

My statement was in reply to you asking about:

Is it possible that Skyhammer isn't considered a "formation" in this case?

Skyhammer has purposely been left out of the currently available stuff it seems. Although thinking about it now, I wouldn't be surprised to see it under the Iron Hands auxiliary slots as the synergy seems to be something that would work with them.

I'm, personally, thinking that the Flamebringers might just be a 'unit upgrade' option that gets put in under the Salamanders listings.