Culexus Assassin vs. Orks

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**casvalremdeikun**

The more I think about it, is that a Culexus Assassin encountering a small group or single Ork would likely cause the Ork's weaponry to fail, but not larger groups.

**SagesStone**

Vitali Advenil wrote:
I remember in the Space Marine game there was this macguffin that would negate the orks' gestalt field, which was stated to kill them instantly. I think it would moreso work like pulling the feelers off of an ant. They'd lose any semblance of coordination, start attacking everyone on their side, and utterly collapse.

Granted, their gestalt is very subtle, so I'm not sure it can be nullified. It's not like active psyker powers, as these do not make them vulnerable to the warp at all.

iirc this was actually a trick by chaos and the machine actually would open a portal to the warp instead.

**TheWanderer**

oldzoggy wrote:
Stuff would work less optimal. The really crazy stuff might just power down or stop working.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

TheWanderer wrote:

personally I am not convinced that Orks are truly psychic in anyway

Orks are created by the old ones like eldar and perhaps even humans. All those races show exceptional psychic affinity it seems to be part of their grand scheme.

I just mentioned this elsewhere so might as well bring it up here to. In the old fluff the Old ones made the Koark or Kork (i forget the spelling) which we mostly believe was the primordial Ork but was it??

Also I dont know if that is even the case now with how the Necron/C'Tan retconning has changed things around.

In support of the "Orks dont channel the warp" I cant recall a single piece of fluff of an ork being possessed by a daemon? Of Ork chaos worshippers? (although i think i recall some old old fan fiction from a WD that might have been that of Ork/Stealer cult I dont recall now)

I will admit I am arguing it for the sake of it now rather than with much interest. I could perhaps agree that they dont use the warp in the "traditional" sense of the other races.

**oldzoggy**

I cant recall a single piece of fluff of an ork being possessed by a daemon? Of Ork chaos worshippers?

Go and read some fluff then ; )

**TheWanderer**

oldzoggy wrote:
I cant recall a single piece of fluff of an ork being possessed by a daemon? Of Ork chaos worshippers?

Go and read some fluff then ; )

hahahah, I do recall that now but as you well know that is a very tongue in cheek piece of work but is circa 25 years old :-)

Good find though

**nareik**

There are chaos orks in the CSM and black legion books (different instances), but these orks are chaos by circumstance rather than by lifestyle choice.

**Spetulhu**

TheWanderer wrote:
In support of the "Orks dont channel the warp" I cant recall a single piece of fluff of an ork being possessed by a daemon?

There's even one in the Ork Codex, when they explain the fun in space travel. "Something came out of old Whotsizname's head and killed half the boyz before we killed it. That was fun."

But it's rare and generally not worth it for a daemon to possess a green guy. Other orks will kill the host if he behaves too "unorky" and the single-track mind of an ork would probably have precious few levers with which to control it anyway.

**TheWanderer**

I really am still struggling with it from the simple logic the it would mean constant chaos incursions whereever orks were.

Think of this, for humanity the threat od daemonic possession and incursion through unsanctioned psykers is so high that they have a whole branch of the imperium dedicated to collecting them up from all the planets of the imperium and either killing them or "locking them down" in one way or another. Its such an issue that its one of the main things a planetary governor is obliged to do alongside paying his tithes and raising PDF/Guard.

That being the case and with it clearly being that orks are more "psychic" than humans and the gestalt field effect is pretty damn effective, it should be even more of a problem for orks. They are far LESS controlled in their emotions et al than a human and are shown to have very little regard for safety so would have no qualms about using their powers to the extreme. There should be massive daemonic incursions going on all over ork space...

Or am I missing something?

**oldzoggy**

The problem with the IoM is that it is horrible for most of their inhabitants and that humans suck at controlling their emotions. This feeds choas like no other and a large portion of men are actually giving in to chaos once it surfaces making it even worse. Ork culture isn't like that. Orks are happy doing what they do and ork kulture as a whole isn't too keen on letting unorky things do what unorky things want to do. So while they are psychic, do feed the powers in the immaterium and can be possesed etc they do not tend to feed the choas gods that much nor do they embrace them as much as humans tend to do.

**TheWanderer**

oldzoggy wrote:
The problem with the IoM is that it is horrible for most of their inhabitants and that humans suck at controlling their emotions. This feeds choas like no other and a large portion of men are actually giving in to chaos once it surfaces making it even worse. Ork culture isn't like that. Orks are happy doing what they do and ork kulture as a whole isn't too keen on letting unorky things do what unorky things want to do.

hmmmm I am kind of getting where you are coming from and I can see that in Ork culture that unorky behaviour and activity would be very obvious and violently put down by other orks but I dont think I am getting how that makes it less likely to happen in the first place.

If an ork is more "psychic" than say a human and as such has a "brighter" precense in the warp doesnt that make him far more attractive to a daemon and therefore more likely to be possessed or to lead to an incursion? Also given the aggressive and violent nature of orks you would think that Khorne and his flavour of warp is pretty thick around where ever a group of orks get together?

Or do orky emotions and actions not resonated in warp in the same way as humans'?

Or is it more that they need to ahve the full spectrum of traits and emotions that humans and eldar have to draw chaos and that orks dont have it?

**oldzoggy**

You are going at it from the wrong angle. It might help to quote the throne world book. These are the toughs of an eldar Harlequin visiting Terra.

throne world wrote: " This world was as dead as its ruler. The stink of humanity lay thick upon it, the statues near the ceiling coated in dust, the shed skin cells of people five hundred cycles gone. The psychic effect was a hideous weight, thousands of years of human suffering pressing in on Lhaerial’s sensitive mind, and that was the least of it. Crushing the sensation of the dead of the Earth was the titanic presence of the Corpse Emperor.

Such power made Lhaerial’s mind reel, and for a moment her contempt for the creatures of Terra wavered. The mind of the Emperor was a mountain in the surging madness of the Othersea, blinding in its brilliance. The Great Powers circled this place like razorshark waiting out the death throes of a void-whale. That terrible presence held them back, and all His little servants were ignorant of it! Unease gripped her, that she would be noticed by the Dark Gods or their defier, and the fragile flame of her being snuffed out.."

Now lets compare that to an ork society. They aren't suffering for thousands of generations due to horrible conditions that they don't like at all. Orks love ork culture or are at least content with their role in it.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or to quote Lexicanum on the IoM and Chaos.

The Cabal believed that, after the Heresy, a scintilla of the honourable being he once was would remain within Horus, eating at him and fueling a self-destructive sense of self-hatred and loathing that would see Horus fall on his subjects in an acceleration of the violence of the Heresy, creating civil strife amongst the traitor and Chaotic forces that would culminate in a final armageddon. The end result of Horus leading humanity would be total extermination of the human species within two or three generations...however, if this were so, the powers of Chaos, so heavily invested in humanity, would be extinguished with it.

and the alternative

The foreseen outcome of the Heresy, the Cabal saw the Emperor giving his life to kill Horus, becoming a howling rictus trapped inside the Golden Throne. They believed that this path would lead to stagnation, and stagnation to decay. This decay would accelerate, continually allowing the Chaos powers to grow and spread their influence, until after ten or twenty thousand years of misery, the entire galaxy would be consumed by Chaos.

**Spetulhu**

TheWanderer wrote:
Or is it more that they need to ahve the full spectrum of traits and emotions that humans and eldar have to draw chaos and that orks dont have it?

Nah, it's probably mostly that orks are hard to tempt. They already have all they need and if they don't they know all they have to do is krump someone who has it. Possession (unless it's a very powerful daemon) requires that you let it in, but daemons have precious little to offer your regular ork.

Tzeentch? Orks change things themself if they don't like them. Nurgle? Orks don't usually get sick. Slaneesh? Orks already have fun (and it's much too simple fun for Slaneesh anyway). Even Khorne is a useless git when you get down to it - if he wants skulls he can bloody well collect them himself! A proper ork isn't going to collect skulls for some bloke unless that bloke shows up in person, hits the ork over the head and demands skulls.

**TheWanderer**

Spetulhu wrote:
TheWanderer wrote:
Or is it more that they need to ahve the full spectrum of traits and emotions that humans and eldar have to draw chaos and that orks dont have it?

Nah, it's probably mostly that orks are hard to tempt. They already have all they need and if they don't they know all they have to do is krump someone who has it. Possession (unless it's a very powerful daemon) requires that you let it in, but daemons have precious little to offer your regular ork.

Tzeentch? Orks change things themself if they don't like them. Nurgle? Orks don't usually get sick. Slaneesh? Orks already have fun (and it's much too simple fun for Slaneesh anyway). Even Khorne is a useless git when you get down to it - if he wants skulls he can bloody well collect them himself! A proper ork isn't going to collect skulls for some bloke unless that bloke shows up in person, hits the ork over the head and demands skulls.

I am not talking about Orks turning into Chaos worshippers I am talking about psykers allowing warp entities into the mortal realm. Its pretty clear to me from the fluff that a psyker is a conduit for a warp entity to enter the real workd whether they like it or not. Which to me must be a big issue for the orks

Automatically Appended Next Post:

oldzoggy wrote:
You are going at it from the wrong angle. It might help to quote the throne world book. This are the toughs of an eldar Harlequin visiting Terra.

throne world wrote: " This world was as dead as its ruler. The stink of humanity lay thick upon it, the statues near the ceiling coated in dust, the shed skin cells of people five hundred cycles gone. The psychic effect was a hideous weight, thousands of years of human suffering pressing in on Lhaerial’s sensitive mind, and that was the least of it. Crushing the sensation of the dead of the Earth was the titanic presence of the Corpse Emperor.

Such power made Lhaerial’s mind reel, and for a moment her contempt for the creatures of Terra wavered. The mind of the Emperor was a mountain in the surging madness of the Othersea, blinding in its brilliance. The Great Powers circled this place like razorshark waiting out the death throes of a void-whale. That terrible presence held them back, and all His little servants were ignorant of it! Unease gripped her, that she would be noticed by the Dark Gods or their defier, and the fragile flame of her being snuffed out.."

Now lets compare that to an ork society. They aren't suffering for thousands of generations due to horrible conditions that they don't like at all. Orks love ork culture or are at least content with their role in it.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Or to quote Lexicanum on the IoM and Chaos.

The Cabal believed that, after the Heresy, a scintilla of the honourable being he once was would remain within Horus, eating at him and fueling a self-destructive sense of self-hatred and loathing that would see Horus fall on his subjects in an acceleration of the violence of the Heresy, creating civil strife amongst the traitor and Chaotic forces that would culminate in a final armageddon. The end result of Horus leading humanity would be total extermination of the human species within two or three generations...however, if this were so, the powers of Chaos, so heavily invested in humanity, would be extinguished with it.

and the alternative

The foreseen outcome of the Heresy, the Cabal saw the Emperor giving his life to kill Horus, becoming a howling rictus trapped inside the Golden Throne. They believed that this path would lead to stagnation, and stagnation to decay. This decay would accelerate, continually allowing the Chaos powers to grow and spread their influence, until after ten or twenty thousand years of misery, the entire galaxy would be consumed by Chaos.

Thats some very interesting snippets there even forgetting the current discussions, I will have to pick up throneworld, thats part of a bigger series is it not?

**oldzoggy**

Throneworld is part of the series the beast arises. Note that the second quote is not from that series and that the series is mainly about Space marines, High lords of terra,The assasinorum, The inquisition and The cult of mars. This eldar vieuw is a rare exception.

**TheWanderer**

oldzoggy wrote:
Throneworld is part of the series the beast arises. Note that the second quote is not from that series and that the series is mainly about Space marines, High lords of terra,The assasinorum, The inquisition and The cult of mars. This eldar vieuw in a rare exception.

ah ok, I have jsut picked up I am Slaughter so will get to it in time i guess! Not normally a fan of marine fluff but hopefully all the other bits around it will make it worth while.

**Tyran**

TheWanderer wrote:

I am not talking about Orks turning into Chaos worshippers I am talking about psykers allowing warp entities into the mortal realm. Its pretty clear to me from the fluff that a psyker is a conduit for a warp entity to enter the real workd whether they like it or not. Which to me must be a big issue for the orks

Orks don't gather psychic energy from the warp, they generate it themselves. They have little to fear from daemons because they work on an entirely different system.

**DontEatRawHagis**

My current Ork belief is that the Imperium is too archaric to realize how Ork Tek works. Techpriests would never admit that Ork Tech is hyper advanced so instead they say it is warp related and save face.

Reading the beast arises there is a scene where a Techpriest proves their is some field the orks have from their brain, but he doesn't prove if the field unlocks the weapon or if it actually causes the weapon to work.

**TheWanderer**

Tyran wrote:
TheWanderer wrote:

I am not talking about Orks turning into Chaos worshippers I am talking about psykers allowing warp entities into the mortal realm. Its pretty clear to me from the fluff that a psyker is a conduit for a warp entity to enter the real workd whether they like it or not. Which to me must be a big issue for the orks

Orks don't gather psychic energy from the warp, they generate it themselves. They have little to fear from daemons because they work on an entirely different system.

aha! welcome to the debate. There is another thread here where I argue that exact position but there is some strong debate against that thinking

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/691464.page

**Stroke**

I don't think anything would happen, because their stuff doesn't just work because the Orks near the stuff want it to work. It happens cause all the Orks in the galaxy believe it will work.

**TheWanderer**

Stroke wrote:
I don't think anything would happen, because their stuff doesn't just work because the Orks near the stuff want it to work. It happens cause all the Orks in the galaxy believe it will work.

interesting thought, how would that tie in with the more "savage orks" that dont have the tech?