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 Yarium wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
The box seems a little light. 5 models? Really?

They should have gone with Guardians imo.

I think it makes a lot of sense, especially because these boxes are meant to really capture the essence of each race and what their strategy is. Personally, I think the Tyranid one kind of massively failed in this regard, but the others have been slam dunks. Having Orks being able to fight twice in close combat to just drown an opponent in attacks and models is really fluffy. Space Marines being able to shoot twice is cool, and really lets them feel like they're setting up firing lanes and working together. Necrons just never dying is a staple, though perhaps this could have been done a little cleaner than it was.

I don't know what the formation of this will be, but the model-count helps reinforce that the Eldar are few in number, which is a commonly reinforced concept, with ready access to some of the most powerful weapons in the game, while also being one of the fastest in the game.

Also, VERY curious to see what the Chaos Space Marine formation does!

I think the DE box does an amazing job of capturing that. I'm actually hoping the formation grants units inside the Raider the ability to fire at full BS after jinking or something similar. Don't play DE, but it'd be nice to see the Cenobite Elves get back their defining strategy.

Buy all the old battle forces you can.

10 guardians
Wave serpent
Vyper?
5 dire avengers

3 of those and you have the makings of a guardian host
dire avenger shrine

would just need a war walker and a support battery and a farseer.

Your army would be decent and have some different builds you could play with.

Above all it wouldn't be cheesy.

 Yarium wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
The box seems a little light. 5 models? Really?

They should have gone with Guardians imo.

I think it makes a lot of sense, especially because these boxes are meant to really capture the essence of each race and what their strategy is. Personally, I think the Tyranid one kind of massively failed in this regard, but the others have been slam dunks. Having Orks being able to fight twice in close combat to just drown an opponent in attacks and models is really fluffy.

But in true GW fashion, at least when handling orks, they made sure to make this formation and the rules completely worthless.

Ork Painmob:
Formation:
1 Painboy
1 unit of Ork Boyz
1 unit of Ork Nobz
1 Deff Dread

Special Rules
Pile On Da Pain!
Once per battle, at the start of your movement phase, an Ork Painmob can 'Pile On Da Pain!'. When it does so, every unit from the formation that is locked in combat is allowed to Pile In and fight as it were a Fight sub-phase, but enemy units cannot fight back. Using this ability does not stop the Ork units from fighting again the assault phase of the same turn.

Painboy....good, expensive but he gives you a 5+ FNP which since orks dont get armor saves...ever...is important. So those 10-30 boyz have a 5+ FNP except against ID and S8+.
Boyz: The iconic boyz unit...which in 6th and 7th has died out almost completely except as objective holders and occasionally in giant blobs to scare opponents.
Nobz: USELESS. 18pts a model, 22 when you pay for the 4+ armor, horrible leadership and barely benefits from the Mob rule to keep it from running away.
Deff Dread: I honestly can't remember the last time I saw one of these being fielded.

As for the special rule? Well it looks amazing until you think about it for a second and realize its garbage. To even benefit from the 1 time use only formation bonus you have to Charge into CC (Or get charged) Both squads have to survive the combat and then you have to start a 2nd turn, If you charged that means you and your opponents squads have to survive ANOTHER close combat phase, or if you GOT Charged then you get to get a bunch of attacks during your movements phase, not bad...except they are all S3 attacks. a Squad of 10 boyz (probably all thats left after 2 assault phases) has 30 attacks at WS4 S3 so thats 15 hits and 5 wounds against a MEQ. Not exactly something to get excited about.

So I guess in hindsight it is fluffy, because it ensures that the Ork Player loses.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

pm713 wrote:
I have to say I feel a little disappointed in the Eldar start collecting set.

I will trade you, you can have a foot troops choice, your most useless Elite unit, a decent HQ unit and a single Warwalker And I get to have a Unit of Bikers, a Warboss on a Bike and a Battlewagon with a Supa Kannon.

I doubt this is what you intended but that's actually a decent swap for me personally.

pm713 wrote:
I doubt this is what you intended but that's actually a decent swap for me personally.

It wasn't meant to be slight against the eldar, but simply pointing out that the Eldar Box Set was given their best troops choice, a really solid HQ choice and a solid Heavy Support slot. I would gladly take that over the garbage GW gave the Orks Box Set.

Boyz = Guardians (maybe dire avengers?)
Nobz = whatever is the worst elite choice in the Eldar Codex (Still better then anything in my codex)
Painboy = whatever is weaker then a Farseer
Deff Dread = 1 Warwalker, or maybe a Wraithlord, but the WL is way better then a Deff Dread so I dont know.

pm713 wrote:
I doubt this is what you intended but that's actually a decent swap for me personally.

Ummm... How exactly? You prefer Guardians and Howling Banshees to Scatbikes?

 Lord Corellia wrote:

pm713 wrote:
I doubt this is what you intended but that's actually a decent swap for me personally.

Ummm... How exactly? You prefer Guardians and Howling Banshees to Scatbikes?

I took Troop as Dire Avengers, worst Elite to be Wraithblades and the HQ to be an Autarch. Those and a War Walker is alright to me. Frankly I wouldn't build scatbikes anyway because I don't use the same boring list as almost everyone else who plays Eldar so yes I'll take a nice mix of units over the same boring **** every other Eldar player seems to use.

pm713 wrote:

 Lord Corellia wrote:

pm713 wrote:
I doubt this is what you intended but that's actually a decent swap for me personally.

Ummm... How exactly? You prefer Guardians and Howling Banshees to Scatbikes?

I took Troop as Dire Avengers, worst Elite to be Wraithblades and the HQ to be an Autarch. Those and a War Walker is alright to me. Frankly I wouldn't build scatbikes anyway because I don't use the same boring list as almost everyone else who plays Eldar so yes I'll take a nice mix of units over the same boring **** every other Eldar player seems to use.

LOL well put PM, though it doesn't hurt that your entire codex is head and shoulders above my ork codex your worst units would be auto includes in every list i build as an ork player.

As someone collecting Eldar who luckily has been holding off on tanks/jetbikes, this'll be perfect.

$67 bucks (discounted) for a fire prism, three bikes and a mounted character is not a bad deal at all. I'll pick up one or two.

I do think it's a little odd for a Start Collecting box but you won't see me complaining. I don't suppose you can build a normal Falcon out of the Fire Prism kit can you?

SemperMortis wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Lord Corellia wrote:

pm713 wrote:
I doubt this is what you intended but that's actually a decent swap for me personally.

Ummm... How exactly? You prefer Guardians and Howling Banshees to Scatbikes?

I took Troop as Dire Avengers, worst Elite to be Wraithblades and the HQ to be an Autarch. Those and a War Walker is alright to me. Frankly I wouldn't build scatbikes anyway because I don't use the same boring list as almost everyone else who plays Eldar so yes I'll take a nice mix of units over the same boring **** every other Eldar player seems to use.

LOL well put PM, though it doesn't hurt that your entire codex is head and shoulders above my ork codex your worst units would be auto includes in every list i build as an ork player.

That's true. If it were up to me some people would get buffs and some people would get nerfs. But sadly I don't make the choices.

 Elbows wrote:
As someone collecting Eldar who luckily has been holding off on tanks/jetbikes, this'll be perfect.

$67 bucks (discounted) for a fire prism, three bikes and a mounted character is not a bad deal at all. I'll pick up one or two.

I do think it's a little odd for a Start Collecting box but you won't see me complaining. I don't suppose you can build a normal Falcon out of the Fire Prism kit can you?

Looking at the sprue pics on GW’s site, I’m guessing not. Hull is the same, but totally different turret kits. They show what sprues come with the prism, and I’m not seeing any falcon turret bits.

(I could be wrong, someone can correct me if I am)

I assumed it did not, I'd just rather a Falcon, maybe I can grab a turret from bits on ebay.

 Nevelon wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
As someone collecting Eldar who luckily has been holding off on tanks/jetbikes, this'll be perfect.

$67 bucks (discounted) for a fire prism, three bikes and a mounted character is not a bad deal at all. I'll pick up one or two.

I do think it's a little odd for a Start Collecting box but you won't see me complaining. I don't suppose you can build a normal Falcon out of the Fire Prism kit can you?

Looking at the sprue pics on GW’s site, I’m guessing not. Hull is the same, but totally different turret kits. They show what sprues come with the prism, and I’m not seeing any falcon turret bits.

(I could be wrong, someone can correct me if I am)

As far as I know the only other thing you can make out of a Fire Prism is a Nightspinner.

the Dark Eldar box has me excited. My current Dark Eldar Force has been rather lackluster because I was still lacking a few bodies and needed more raiders. The Hellions are just icing on the cake.

 Elbows wrote:
I assumed it did not, I'd just rather a Falcon, maybe I can grab a turret from bits on ebay.

I know the feeling. I want to grab the prism, just for variety (and I think they look cool) but I own two falcons, so getting the 3rd would let me pull the no-scatter DS trick. I’m afraid to hit e-bay and grab parts, mostly due to the fear of what my credit card company and Wife would do to me once I step down that slippery slope.

So many options, not enough budget...

 Elbows wrote:
I assumed it did not, I'd just rather a Falcon, maybe I can grab a turret from bits on ebay.

If you have a Bright lance to use as a mini-Pulse laser and whatever other gun you want on the Falcon, you can easily convert a Fire Prism turret to be a Falcon turret. That's what I did because I think the Falcon turret is showing it's age. Remember, since turrets have 360 LoS, modeling is a bit more forgiving.

Well I went ahead and started eldar army Start collect + battle force makes up nice start for eldar force. Bike farseer is bit of a risky business(we are playing 2nd ed so bikes aren't such an uber upgrades as 7th ed). Will also require us to brush up on psychics which we have been largely ignoring(mostly due to lack of psykers especially for orks. Need to make up some weirdboyz I guess!) so far.

With 2 vechiles should up around 1000-1200 pts or so, maybe tad more due to wargears. Good start

I second people saying that the SC box plus the Battle force makes for a good starter army for Eldar. If I were to be starting them, that is the way I would go.

pm713 wrote:

 Lord Corellia wrote:

pm713 wrote:
I doubt this is what you intended but that's actually a decent swap for me personally.

Ummm... How exactly? You prefer Guardians and Howling Banshees to Scatbikes?

I took Troop as Dire Avengers, worst Elite to be Wraithblades and the HQ to be an Autarch. Those and a War Walker is alright to me. Frankly I wouldn't build scatbikes anyway because I don't use the same boring list as almost everyone else who plays Eldar so yes I'll take a nice mix of units over the same boring **** every other Eldar player seems to use.

Interesting that your worst Elite could also be your best Elite. Dire Avengers would probably be better than Guardians but I'm not sure if it would be as likely. 10 DA is almost double the $$ cost of 10 Guardians.

 Lord Corellia wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Lord Corellia wrote:

pm713 wrote:
I doubt this is what you intended but that's actually a decent swap for me personally.

Ummm... How exactly? You prefer Guardians and Howling Banshees to Scatbikes?

I took Troop as Dire Avengers, worst Elite to be Wraithblades and the HQ to be an Autarch. Those and a War Walker is alright to me. Frankly I wouldn't build scatbikes anyway because I don't use the same boring list as almost everyone else who plays Eldar so yes I'll take a nice mix of units over the same boring **** every other Eldar player seems to use.

Interesting that your worst Elite could also be your best Elite. Dire Avengers would probably be better than Guardians but I'm not sure if it would be as likely. 10 DA is almost double the $$ cost of 10 Guardians.

What do you mean by worst Elite can be my best Elite? It might just be 5 DA.

Just got a email from a friend...I'll be pre-ordering the start collecting box. While I still think it's an odd Start Collecting box - it suits my needs nearly perfectly. No complaints here. I'd have passed it up had it used Guardians or Dire Avengers --- have plenty of those already.

EDIT: Ordered.

This is the Dark Eldar Start Collecting. Am I alone in thinking that the Dark Eldar boxed set seems to be a much better value than the Eldar one? Sure, the Eldar set is valued in GW prices around the same as the Dark Eldar set, but the Dark Eldar set comes with ten whole miniatures more.

What are the formation bonuses?

The Dark Eldar box has a higher dollar value savings and both the DE and Eldar box are fairly practical assortments of units. Very easy to justify buying multiple boxes of them (unlike say the Ork or CSM box).

I do find it rather disappointing that most of the recent start collecting box sets got a bit of a hint as to what the formation did but for the DE it just says you get a formation

I do agree I think the Dark Eldar box is pretty good (I hate Dark Eldar, but as a purchase option it's very decent). Makes sense to pick up a couple of them to start a force. Heck two of them for about $130 with discount and you have a very reasonable starting force I'd imagine.

pm713 wrote:

 Lord Corellia wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Lord Corellia wrote:

pm713 wrote:
I doubt this is what you intended but that's actually a decent swap for me personally.

Ummm... How exactly? You prefer Guardians and Howling Banshees to Scatbikes?

I took Troop as Dire Avengers, worst Elite to be Wraithblades and the HQ to be an Autarch. Those and a War Walker is alright to me. Frankly I wouldn't build scatbikes anyway because I don't use the same boring list as almost everyone else who plays Eldar so yes I'll take a nice mix of units over the same boring **** every other Eldar player seems to use.

Interesting that your worst Elite could also be your best Elite. Dire Avengers would probably be better than Guardians but I'm not sure if it would be as likely. 10 DA is almost double the $$ cost of 10 Guardians.

What do you mean by worst Elite can be my best Elite? It might just be 5 DA.

If you're getting Wrathblades you're also getting the options for Wraithguard. When I built mine, I totally ignored the swords and shields. Not sure why anyone else wouldn't do the same. So yeah, the same box for your worst Elite is also the box for your best Elite.

Fair point on the DA though, but it would be lame.

One thing with the DE box is the redundancy of the archon. How easy is it to mod him, and how many do you need in a list? A lot of the start collecting boxes are going to generate a pile of useless HQs if you pick up more then one or two of them.

One thing with the Eldar box is the farseer on bike can be built as a warlock. Either to join the bike squad, or as part of a council.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Spoiler:

This is the Dark Eldar Start Collecting. Am I alone in thinking that the Dark Eldar boxed set seems to be a much better value than the Eldar one? Sure, the Eldar set is valued in GW prices around the same as the Dark Eldar set, but the Dark Eldar set comes with ten whole miniatures more.

Depends whether you mean monetary value or model value.

The difference between the two is that you essentially trade the Farseer on Jetbike for 11 foot infantry (10 kabalites and 1 Archon). In terms of pure plastic weight, the Dark Eldar one is probably better. In terms of monetary value, both are roughly the same, which is mainly due to the farseer clampack costing way more than it should.

 Lord Corellia wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Lord Corellia wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Lord Corellia wrote:

pm713 wrote:
I doubt this is what you intended but that's actually a decent swap for me personally.

Ummm... How exactly? You prefer Guardians and Howling Banshees to Scatbikes?

I took Troop as Dire Avengers, worst Elite to be Wraithblades and the HQ to be an Autarch. Those and a War Walker is alright to me. Frankly I wouldn't build scatbikes anyway because I don't use the same boring list as almost everyone else who plays Eldar so yes I'll take a nice mix of units over the same boring **** every other Eldar player seems to use.

Interesting that your worst Elite could also be your best Elite. Dire Avengers would probably be better than Guardians but I'm not sure if it would be as likely. 10 DA is almost double the $$ cost of 10 Guardians.

What do you mean by worst Elite can be my best Elite? It might just be 5 DA.

If you're getting Wrathblades you're also getting the options for Wraithguard. When I built mine, I totally ignored the swords and shields. Not sure why anyone else wouldn't do the same. So yeah, the same box for your worst Elite is also the box for your best Elite.

Fair point on the DA though, but it would be lame.

I did forget about that actually.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
In terms of pure plastic weight, the Dark Eldar one is probably better. In terms of monetary value, both are roughly the same, which is mainly due to the farseer clampack costing way more than it should.

Which is one of the reasons my Eldar army fizzled and then was sold off. $40 for a single HQ choice I'll be needing at least 4 of? Ummm...Pass...