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TheCustomLime wrote: I don't think there is any problem with Space Marines being all-male. Monogendered factions shouldn't be a block to inclusiveness in any setting as long as females get proportionate representation in other factions. I think the greater injustice is the lack of female Guardsmen, Tau and Eldar characters. These are factions that do have females already lorewise yet this isn't reflected on the tabletop.
I would say it's more of an issue with SM then it would be with another fraction because SMs account for basically half the fractions by themselves.
I don’t think you will find many people that will disagree that the space marines are grossly over exposed; normally at the expense of the other factions. The answer isn’t to add even more to them but to expand and build upon the other factions in the setting. As others have said if certain other armies received the same level of attention as the space marines would female-space marines be such a big deal?
You all seem pretty sexist to me, gender is what gender they identify with not what is between their legs, so it is sexist to say all space marines are male. Maybe horus identified as a female?
So if we need space marines with different types of groin packaging we need to add a few more. Male, female, hermaphradite, other.
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OgreChubbs wrote: You all seem pretty sexist to me, gender is what gender they identify with not what is between their legs, so it is sexist to say all space marines are male. Maybe horus identified as a female?
So if we need space marines with different types of groin packaging we need to add a few more. Male, female, hermaphradite, other.
All Space Marines, the loyal ones anyway, are male. They identify as male, they are male. Anything else would be heresy.
H.B.M.C.- The end hath come! From now on armies will only consist of Astorath, Land Speeder Storms and Soul Grinders!
War Kitten- Vanden, you just taunted the Dank Lord Ezra. Prepare for seven years of fighting reality...
koooaei- Emperor: I envy your nipplehorns. <Magnus goes red. Permanently>
Neronoxx- If our Dreadnought doesn't have sick scuplted abs, we riot.
Frazzled- I don't generally call anyone by a term other than "sir" "maam" "youn g lady" "young man" or " HEY bag!"
Ruin- It's official, we've ran out of things to talk about on Dakka. Close the site. We're done.
mrhappyface- "They're more what you'd call guidlines than actual rules" - Captain Roboute Barbosa
Steve steveson- To be clear, I'd sell you all out for a bottle of scotch and a mid priced hooker.
OgreChubbs wrote: You all seem pretty sexist to me, gender is what gender they identify with not what is between their legs, so it is sexist to say all space marines are male. Maybe horus identified as a female?
So if we need space marines with different types of groin packaging we need to add a few more. Male, female, hermaphradite, other.
All Space Marines, the loyal ones anyway, are male. They identify as male, they are male. Anything else would be heresy.
indivisuals feelings apon the matter widely vary.
Think of fulgrim beautiful tall skinny long white hair always dancing around the battle field, Obsessed with shiny things and purple amd pink. Did anyone ever really see her groin? Do females who are super human have breasts? Or do they stop growing when the organs are placed? Is that why we never see naked picture of the primarchs and no one is allowed to work on her but the emperor? Holy gak now we know why the apothacarys where so confised when they stripped her naked.
If I cant see her groin how will I ever be content? After all everyone always want to see everyone naked.
I need to go to work every day.
Millions of people on welfare depend on me.
I don’t think you will find many people that will disagree that the space marines are grossly over exposed; normally at the expense of the other factions. The answer isn’t to add even more to them but to expand and build upon the other factions in the setting. As others have said if certain other armies received the same level of attention as the space marines would female-space marines be such a big deal?
Funnily enough making female marines with well filled armoured bras, cute ponytails and swinging hips would probably be about the fastest way to drop SM adoption down to Sororitas levels. Timmy the teenage wannabe spess murheen is hardly going to throw down his pocket money on lady marines. I suspect he'd rather idolise undead robots or fungal football hooligans.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/28 22:47:03
OgreChubbs wrote: You all seem pretty sexist to me, gender is what gender they identify with not what is between their legs, so it is sexist to say all space marines are male. Maybe horus identified as a female?
So if we need space marines with different types of groin packaging we need to add a few more. Male, female, hermaphradite, other.
All Space Marines, the loyal ones anyway, are male. They identify as male, they are male. Anything else would be heresy.
indivisuals feelings apon the matter widely vary.
Think of fulgrim beautiful tall skinny long white hair always dancing around the battle field, Obsessed with shiny things and purple amd pink. Did anyone ever really see her groin? Do females who are super human have breasts? Or do they stop growing when the organs are placed? Is that why we never see naked picture of the primarchs and no one is allowed to work on her but the emperor? Holy gak now we know why the apothacarys where so confised when they stripped her naked.
If I cant see her groin how will I ever be content? After all everyone always want to see everyone naked.
Fulgrim is a guy. Everyone referred to him as a "he" and he referred to himself as a "he." Big E himself made Fulgrim male.
Female Space Marines cannot and will not exist in the current fluff.
Spoiler:
Tactical_Spam wrote: A Space Marine cannot be female. As humans, we are sexually dimorphic no matter how you put it. The strongest man will always be better than the strongest woman. Space Marines are selected from a group of aspirants that survived their initial trials. They are then pumped up with drugs and have more trials. At this point you have a fraction of the pool you started with. Now you give them their implants and even then, their numbers decrease as you test them. Space Marines are made from the elite of the elite.
Now couple this information with the fact that the technological regression after the Horus Heresy has made the art of making a Space Marine practically magic. There is no way to reverse engineer Female Space Marines and if someone did, the entirety of Mars would probably send a Legio Titanicus to curb the "heresy."
H.B.M.C.- The end hath come! From now on armies will only consist of Astorath, Land Speeder Storms and Soul Grinders!
War Kitten- Vanden, you just taunted the Dank Lord Ezra. Prepare for seven years of fighting reality...
koooaei- Emperor: I envy your nipplehorns. <Magnus goes red. Permanently>
Neronoxx- If our Dreadnought doesn't have sick scuplted abs, we riot.
Frazzled- I don't generally call anyone by a term other than "sir" "maam" "youn g lady" "young man" or " HEY bag!"
Ruin- It's official, we've ran out of things to talk about on Dakka. Close the site. We're done.
mrhappyface- "They're more what you'd call guidlines than actual rules" - Captain Roboute Barbosa
Steve steveson- To be clear, I'd sell you all out for a bottle of scotch and a mid priced hooker.
For me it's not even so much a background issue as one of identification. However you stumble across the hobby, finding out they're all male will alienate people. And being told no, you can't be the paragons, the superhuman bulwark, instead there are female graceful haughty aliens, female humans and investigators and female Brave New World aliens... Sort of misses the point.
Others may disagree but comics have had a he'll of a time with this. That's why we have Tarene Olson as Thor, Miles Morales as Spider-Man and Kamala Khan as Miss Marvel. People want to identify and the more options the better. I think it's possibly one of the few areas Age of Sigmar got right. The Stormcast Eternals as far as I know, can almost be any race or gender in the new background.
Throwing this kind of thing in people's face because you have a difference of opinion isn't cool or in the interest of having an adult conversation about anything.
pm713 wrote: They're also bland nothings. Anyone can fill in a blank page.
Yeah, though from their buffed out proportions they still look like uber-males, they are just marines really, with even less personality, actually a lot less.
OgreChubbs wrote: You all seem pretty sexist to me, gender is what gender they identify with not what is between their legs, so it is sexist to say all space marines are male. Maybe horus identified as a female?
So if we need space marines with different types of groin packaging we need to add a few more. Male, female, hermaphradite, other.
All Space Marines, the loyal ones anyway, are male. They identify as male, they are male. Anything else would be heresy.
indivisuals feelings apon the matter widely vary.
Think of fulgrim beautiful tall skinny long white hair always dancing around the battle field, Obsessed with shiny things and purple amd pink. Did anyone ever really see her groin? Do females who are super human have breasts? Or do they stop growing when the organs are placed? Is that why we never see naked picture of the primarchs and no one is allowed to work on her but the emperor? Holy gak now we know why the apothacarys where so confised when they stripped her naked.
If I cant see her groin how will I ever be content? After all everyone always want to see everyone naked.
Branding everyone as sexist because they are discussing the issue of greater female representation within the setting is a bit harsh don’t you think. It’s interesting that you would use Fulgrim as your example, why not perturabo or ferrus manus or are they not girly enough a stereotype to identify themselves as female. After all implying that “Obsessed with shiny things and purple amd pink” is somehow evidence of a person who identifies themselves as being of the female gender is in its self a horribly sexist stereotype.
Zond wrote: I said it got it right. I didn't say it was executed well.
Those two comments are mutually exclusive.
Are they? I can have an amazing idea and execute it poorly. I think that one snippet of background is a fantastic step forward. The model design, presentation and promotion that add to the whole leave a little to be desired however.
Zond wrote: I said it got it right. I didn't say it was executed well.
Those two comments are mutually exclusive.
Are they? I can have an amazing idea and execute it poorly. I think that one snippet of background is a fantastic step forward. The model design, presentation and promotion that add to the whole leave a little to be desired however.
Yes they are. You can't both do something get something right and do a completely terrible job. If you'd gotten it right it would have been at least an okay job.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
TheCustomLime wrote: I don't think there is any problem with Space Marines being all-male. Monogendered factions shouldn't be a block to inclusiveness in any setting as long as females get proportionate representation in other factions. I think the greater injustice is the lack of female Guardsmen, Tau and Eldar characters. These are factions that do have females already lorewise yet this isn't reflected on the tabletop.
I would say it's more of an issue with SM then it would be with another fraction because SMs account for basically half the fractions by themselves.
Space Marines, in the grand scheme, are at a negligible level. Their numbers are tiny compared to any other faction.
But there time in the spotlight is much much more. When you get to it. this whole thing is more a meta issue then a in universe issue.
I agree. I think Games Workshop should stop focusing so much on the Astartes. We Space Marine players have all of our bases covered with perfectly serviceable kits. Stop giving us stuff and focus on the other factions, for god's sake!
Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far!
TheCustomLime wrote: I agree. I think Games Workshop should stop focusing so much on the Astartes. We Space Marine players have all of our bases covered with perfectly serviceable kits. Stop giving us stuff and focus on the other factions, for god's sake!
OgreChubbs wrote: You all seem pretty sexist to me, gender is what gender they identify with not what is between their legs, so it is sexist to say all space marines are male. Maybe horus identified as a female?
So if we need space marines with different types of groin packaging we need to add a few more. Male, female, hermaphradite, other.
All Space Marines, the loyal ones anyway, are male. They identify as male, they are male. Anything else would be heresy.
indivisuals feelings apon the matter widely vary.
Think of fulgrim beautiful tall skinny long white hair always dancing around the battle field, Obsessed with shiny things and purple amd pink. Did anyone ever really see her groin? Do females who are super human have breasts? Or do they stop growing when the organs are placed? Is that why we never see naked picture of the primarchs and no one is allowed to work on her but the emperor? Holy gak now we know why the apothacarys where so confised when they stripped her naked.
If I cant see her groin how will I ever be content? After all everyone always want to see everyone naked.
Branding everyone as sexist because they are discussing the issue of greater female representation within the setting is a bit harsh don’t you think. It’s interesting that you would use Fulgrim as your example, why not perturabo or ferrus manus or are they not girly enough a stereotype to identify themselves as female. After all implying that “Obsessed with shiny things and purple amd pink” is somehow evidence of a person who identifies themselves as being of the female gender is in its self a horribly sexist stereotype.
but comfirming a whole subsect pf people as he with out decerning what they identifiy with is sexist. Me telling you, you are a female and thats that is a sexist comment.
So what people wish to have done with space marines is place them in a certian physical means that suits them for identifing female from male. You want the females to look the way you invision them, not e way they are. There is enough nameless companys that show a false vision of what people should look like, do not follow the grain and insert all spacemarines as male or female. There images and bodys can look how ever they wish and still be consider either sex that they feel most comfortable being.
On the fulgrim comment it was ment to be a thought provoking comment. Such as saying all space marines are male due to their physicial apperance. It is in the same broad brush stroke one can say that fulgrim is a female for liking shiny things and purple and pink. If went paints with a broad brush inepdeed much undesirble com,ents can be made.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/05/29 00:04:12
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Millions of people on welfare depend on me.
OgreChubbs wrote: but comfirming a whole subsect pf people as he with out decerning what they identifiy with is sexist. Me telling you, you are a female and thats that is a sexist comment.
So what people wish to have done with space marines is place them in a certian physical means that suits them for identifing female from male. You want the females to look the way you invision them, not e way they are. There is enough nameless companys that show a false vision of what people should look like, do not follow the grain and insert all spacemarines as male or female. There images and bodys can look how ever they wish and still be consider either sex that they feel most comfortable being.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/28 23:59:43
Space Marines are what sells. It's what most people who play the game want. This is why GW is going to keep things SM centric, and why I'm sure they will have the widom not to tinker with the formula. You can argue the merits of female Space Maines all you want, the economic reality of it is that 40k is what has been keeping GW alive for many years, and Space Marines, in all their über-male, boys'- club glory, is what has kept 40k alive. GW would be taking an immense risk by tinkering with Space Marines. I don't think the verdict is in yet on AoS as to wether the game will have longevity and do the kind of numbers GW needs, so at that point the company would be comepletely adrift in a sea of uncertainty without the rudder of a single product line that's a proven winner with an existing customer base. I can't see it happening.
In all honesty tho space marines and gender nutural will always dominate.
If I said he grabbed her by the throat and began to squeeze the life from her . As she drew her final breath he released her and began to beat her to death people are shocked and disgusted.
But now replace all female comments with he and there is the story of most action movies.
Violance against males is more excepted then against females. If it is a genere about violance and abuse then it is best to stick to males being abused.
Like the night lords in the novel I read the navigator became pregnant so he let her go rather then beating her til miscarage and keeping a navigtor which would be more logical then lossing a navigator. But it would not be exceptable and would call for a rewrite.
It is under the same brush stroke as race, imagine a book cover of a white man beating to death a black man or woman and them calling the white man a savior..... Or a black man beating to death another black man or white man... It is to dangerious.
A book where a white male beats to death or totures another white man is excepted as the norm
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/29 00:13:47
I need to go to work every day.
Millions of people on welfare depend on me.
OgreChubbs wrote: In all honesty tho space marines and gender nutural will always dominate.
If I said he grabbed her by the throat and began to squeeze the life from her . As she drew her final breath he released her and began to beat her to death people are shocked and disgusted.
But now replace all female comments with he and there is the story of most action movies.
Violance against males is more excepted then against females. If it is a genere about violance and abuse then it is best to stick to males being abused.
Like the night lords in the novel I read the navigator became pregnant so he let her go rather then beating her til miscarage and keeping a navigtor which would be more logical then lossing a navigator. But it would not be exceptable and would call for a rewrite.
Sorry are you suggesting violence against women should be socially acceptable? lol, feminism gone mad.
Zond wrote: For me it's not even so much a background issue as one of identification. However you stumble across the hobby, finding out they're all male will alienate people. And being told no, you can't be the paragons, the superhuman bulwark, instead there are female graceful haughty aliens, female humans and investigators and female Brave New World aliens... Sort of misses the point.
Others may disagree but comics have had a he'll of a time with this. That's why we have Tarene Olson as Thor, Miles Morales as Spider-Man and Kamala Khan as Miss Marvel. People want to identify and the more options the better. I think it's possibly one of the few areas Age of Sigmar got right. The Stormcast Eternals as far as I know, can almost be any race or gender in the new background.
yeah amrvel comics also decided to make captain america a nazi. let's not do what they do ok?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/29 00:45:06
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
OgreChubbs wrote: In all honesty tho space marines and gender nutural will always dominate.
If I said he grabbed her by the throat and began to squeeze the life from her . As she drew her final breath he released her and began to beat her to death people are shocked and disgusted.
But now replace all female comments with he and there is the story of most action movies.
Violance against males is more excepted then against females. If it is a genere about violance and abuse then it is best to stick to males being abused.
Like the night lords in the novel I read the navigator became pregnant so he let her go rather then beating her til miscarage and keeping a navigtor which would be more logical then lossing a navigator. But it would not be exceptable and would call for a rewrite.
Sorry are you suggesting violence against women should be socially acceptable? lol, feminism gone mad.
Thats what I am suggesting exactly.
Warhammer 40k is a violence place full of murder and horrible things. When they mix races and gender into it alot of things pop up that become a issue for all those not involved in the game itself but viewers. And I doubt gamesworkshop wants to get involved and donate money to the women abused by their husbands or have to send a public apolgy for black on black crime validation. Keeping it white on white male on male means all crimes are more except able and no one cares.
I need to go to work every day.
Millions of people on welfare depend on me.
It is under the same brush stroke as race, imagine a book cover of a white man beating to death a black man or woman and them calling the white man a savior..... Or a black man beating to death another black man or white man... It is to dangerious.
A book where a white male beats to death or totures another white man is excepted as the norm
But what if the white man identified himself or herself or itself as a black man or woman or neither woman nor man? Likewise what if the black man identified himself or herself or other self as a white man or woman or furry? Can you answer that?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/05/29 00:42:12
It is under the same brush stroke as race, imagine a book cover of a white man beating to death a black man or woman and them calling the white man a savior..... Or a black man beating to death another black man or white man... It is to dangerious.
A book where a white male beats to death or tortures another white man is excepted as the norm
But what if the white man identified himself or herself or itself as a black man or woman or neither woman nor man? Likewise what if the black man identified himself or herself or other self as a white man or woman or furry? Can you answer that?
That non of it matters it just matters what a by looker see's it as. Like I said for the community it would be cool and except able.... but for someone walking by seeing it boom take a pic post it on tweeter or facebook saying it is raciest or sexist and 1 ignorant person breeds another then bored people jump on and there is a problem where there actually was none. It is easier to keep it this way and avoid problems.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/29 00:38:22
I need to go to work every day.
Millions of people on welfare depend on me.
OgreChubbs wrote: You all seem pretty sexist to me, gender is what gender they identify with not what is between their legs, so it is sexist to say all space marines are male. Maybe horus identified as a female?
So if we need space marines with different types of groin packaging we need to add a few more. Male, female, hermaphradite, other.
All Space Marines, the loyal ones anyway, are male. They identify as male, they are male. Anything else would be heresy.
indivisuals feelings apon the matter widely vary.
Think of fulgrim beautiful tall skinny long white hair always dancing around the battle field, Obsessed with shiny things and purple amd pink. Did anyone ever really see her groin? Do females who are super human have breasts? Or do they stop growing when the organs are placed? Is that why we never see naked picture of the primarchs and no one is allowed to work on her but the emperor? Holy gak now we know why the apothacarys where so confised when they stripped her naked.
If I cant see her groin how will I ever be content? After all everyone always want to see everyone naked.
Branding everyone as sexist because they are discussing the issue of greater female representation within the setting is a bit harsh don’t you think. It’s interesting that you would use Fulgrim as your example, why not perturabo or ferrus manus or are they not girly enough a stereotype to identify themselves as female. After all implying that “Obsessed with shiny things and purple amd pink” is somehow evidence of a person who identifies themselves as being of the female gender is in its self a horribly sexist stereotype.
but comfirming a whole subsect pf people as he with out decerning what they identifiy with is sexist. Me telling you, you are a female and thats that is a sexist comment.
So what people wish to have done with space marines is place them in a certian physical means that suits them for identifing female from male. You want the females to look the way you invision them, not e way they are. There is enough nameless companys that show a false vision of what people should look like, do not follow the grain and insert all spacemarines as male or female. There images and bodys can look how ever they wish and still be consider either sex that they feel most comfortable being.
On the fulgrim comment it was ment to be a thought provoking comment. Such as saying all space marines are male due to their physicial apperance. It is in the same broad brush stroke one can say that fulgrim is a female for liking shiny things and purple and pink. If went paints with a broad brush inepdeed much undesirble com,ents can be made.
All Space Marines are men because they all are raging balls of Testosterone, call each other "Brother" and do macho things. It is fallacious to say any of them would think of identifying as a female because none of them have an ounce of femininity. Even Fulgrim, good, good, Fulgrim will never be identified as a female because the Emperor had sons. If Fulgrim said "I suddenly feel like a girl now," the Wolves would have purged 2 Astartes Legions for fear that Fulgrim fell to Slaanesh a bit early.
H.B.M.C.- The end hath come! From now on armies will only consist of Astorath, Land Speeder Storms and Soul Grinders!
War Kitten- Vanden, you just taunted the Dank Lord Ezra. Prepare for seven years of fighting reality...
koooaei- Emperor: I envy your nipplehorns. <Magnus goes red. Permanently>
Neronoxx- If our Dreadnought doesn't have sick scuplted abs, we riot.
Frazzled- I don't generally call anyone by a term other than "sir" "maam" "youn g lady" "young man" or " HEY bag!"
Ruin- It's official, we've ran out of things to talk about on Dakka. Close the site. We're done.
mrhappyface- "They're more what you'd call guidlines than actual rules" - Captain Roboute Barbosa
Steve steveson- To be clear, I'd sell you all out for a bottle of scotch and a mid priced hooker.
The only real requirements for becoming a marine is genetic compatibility and being male. You don't need the elite of the elite, torture tests or battles to the death for the aspirants. It's just one more way for GW to show how backwards and grim the dark future is.
Even if there were female marines you'd never know it. The aspirants are pumped full of drugs and hormones to support the implants when those pump them up even further. A seven foot tall combat monster with strengthened bones, huge slabs of muscle and the Black Carapace will display exactly zero feminine features even if it started as one. The only way you'd know was by putting your hand in it's pants and you'd be dead within two seconds, taking the knowledge with you.
All Space Marines, the loyal ones anyway, are male. They identify as male, they are male. Anything else would be heresy.
bag!"
The Empire 
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