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 Peregrine wrote:
The question can't be answered. You would need very precise information on the internal structure of a titan to even begin to analyze the problem. For example, consider the difference in bending strength between a flat bar of metal and an I-beam. Geometry matters, especially with things like the joints (which would likely be the first point of failure), and we don't have the necessary information. Any "answer" you give would have way more to do with the assumptions you make than with the "true" strength of the titan.

As others have mentioned, you could work it out in the opposite direction, at least treating it as a Fermi question with a series of sensible approximations to come up with an answer within a degree of magnitude. To explain what I mean, have you ever come across the question "How may piano tuners are there in Chicago?" It doesn't sound like a question that has a place in a Physics lesson, but it is one of the most important questions I ask my new A-Level Physics students as it teaches them about how to think instead of what to think. You'd be surprised how close you land up to a correct answer each time I do it with a new class. It is also a great introduction to the idea of uncertainty in calculations.#

 Warpig1815 wrote:
I'm no physicist, only an person with a moderate interest in physics, so take my opinion with a healthy pinch of salt. Anyway, I'd hazard the guess that they could operate on a high G planet if they were built with that in mind - especially if they were built on a high gravity world themselves. A titan built on a 1G planet would likely crumple under 10G stresses unless it's construction was specifically tailored and reinforced to provide for an operating pressure of 10G. However, a Titan built on a 10G planet would be perfectly adapted to operate on another 10G planet and would likely perform better on a lower G planet.

Actually, I'd expect that someone engineered for 10g might well be totally over-engineered for a 1g environment, and you might land up with opposite problems. For example, in a 10g environment, it would be far harder to pump blood up to the brain or coolant up to shoulder-mounted weapons, etc, etc... Now, remove someone from a 10g environment and put them in a 1g environment and you'd have the same problem as modern day astronauts - blood not reaching the feet, and lots of blood reaching the head, resulting in cold-like symptoms. There are lots of other effects too. Furthermore, the higher-density, stronger bones needed for 10g would need far more energy and nutrients to maintain, so even those advantages will come with a price. You might be tougher and stronger, but you'll also need a hell of a lot more food.

How to find out how a titan aproximately weights, how strong plasteel would have to be in order to support 1g (or any other g) operation
step 0: Be able to create 3D models. Some basic engineering knowledge would also help alot.
step 1: Make a realistic and detailed 3D Model of the titan to figure out how it could propably work (where the mechanisms are located, their role and size limits, etc) - while considering ergonomics, engineering fundamentals. You would obviously have to make some assumptions on armor thickness, scifi-technology apparati and so on.
step 2: determine volumes from this 3d Model and apply a material densities This leaves you with a weight.
step 3: Calculate if weight could roughly be supported by available structure when applying realworld materials (e.g. structural steel)

and then go from there to find out how strong plasteel would actually have to be or how much "magic assistance" in the form of anti-gravity devices it would need to operate in a 1-3g range.

What you need for this is the aproximate density of plasteel. And that you can get from leman russ and chimera weight figures. You would have to go through the same procedure as with the titan to do so. Lucky for you i already did that (though i guess nobody would go to these lengths). I modelled Chimera and Leman Russ models, first as extremely accurate TT-model copy. Then scaled them up to reallife scale (while ensuring ergonomics for the crew etc and going the "the most sensible from todays standpoint" route). Applied Armor and calculated the volume of the various bits. Certain assumptions had to be made of course (particluary for armor).

When using the density of regular steel i came up to the following values:
Armor only: Hull= 32,6t ; 2x Sponson = 3,8t ; 2nd edition model Turret (Phaeton turret) = 5t ; 3rd edition model Demolisher turret 7.6t ;
As for the other bits i have 2x Tracks = 5.1t ; Engine = 1.3t ; Gearbox+Steeringunit = 1.3t ; Fuel= 0.6t
Which combined (for the Battletank) would be ~ 50t. The given value for it is between 60 and 65t (dont remember exaclty). So enough for the rest of the bits i haven't accounted for yet (roadwheels, weapons, ammo, electronics, suspension) to fit into the 10-15t left roughly. Some images how the model looks


So based on that i would argue that plasteel density is still close to regular steel. The kind of plasteel used for regular armor anyway. What could make it better than regular steel however could a better or more variable elasticity, which is important for tank armor.
Therefore i would reject this notion that

BrianDavion wrote:
Plasteel [...] being a super material that is "light as plastic, tough as steel"

Maybe lighter by a 5-15% margin, but not more.

Why are the results, that armor-plasteel is close to real steel not that surprising? The stat values used for inspiration of the Leman Russ appear to be from WW2 heavy tanks (the engine name even is a homage to the Tiger Maybach engine), and the weight and armor is in the range of a Tiger II (King-Tiger). And since those are somewhat similar in Material-volume, it all follows suit.

For the Chimera i did the same (though not entirely finished yet). But for the volume it turns out that the most recent Chimera model (with the reduced sideboxes) wouldn't swim if it was 38t like proclaimed, but would actually (barely) swim if it was 36t and would more comfortably swim if it was 34t.

Here is a data sheet for the emperor class titan. Gives you an idea on size. A few friends of mine did some number crunching and using the size reference in that picture along with 28mm heroic scale and figure out that the height of the titan was like 4 and a half feet tall, not counting the spires and towers. FW has the height of a warhound listed and you could use that to get height then probably figure out mass from there. Also if you can find some of the old 2nd ed Titan rules that may have more information for you. I may have scans of it at home.

The Emperor really is not that strong in these days. A Warlord could comfortably take on one or two of those and win.

 Ashiraya wrote:
The Emperor really is not that strong in these days. A Warlord could comfortably take on one or two of those and win.

What about the Dies Irae? Which took on 12 titans, many of them warlords, and destroyed almost all of them. It required the sacrifice of two warlord titans to finally bring it down: one to suicide close enough that the explosion damaged Dies Irae and a second to destroy the reactor with it's power claw, ultimately killing itself in the explosion of Dies Irae.

I mean that its rules have fallen behind and are quite weak; referring to the datasheet posted above.

In lore terms, the Emperor is indeed considerably stronger.

 Ashiraya wrote:
I mean that its rules have fallen behind and are quite weak; referring to the datasheet posted above.

In lore terms, the Emperor is indeed considerably stronger.

I think that dataslate is fan made. GW have never posted official rules for an emperor class titan in 40k.
But if those were official, yes: the emperor would easily be outmatched.

 mrhappyface wrote:


I think that dataslate is fan made. GW have never posted official rules for an emperor class titan in 40k.
But if those were official, yes: the emperor would easily be outmatched.

Pretty sure that's official, actually; the Apocalypse rulebook and the old GW site featured many datasheets for Apoc units that don't have model form. Hell regular codexes have units that aren't represented in 28mm.

Are you sure? I seem to remember seeing that dataslate in someones home brew. But I might be wrong....

It supposedly came from the GW website many years ago, so I'm 90% sure

Of course, 40K artwork and media often disputes the size of war machines such as Titans; 30 years of lore has created plenty of canon conflict, and Titans are no exception

It is official. I remember seeing it on ye olde site.

The biggest land vehicles I can think of are the huge excavator machines used for strip mining, and the mobile launch platform that carried the Space Shuttle from it's servicing bay to the launch site.

They aren't walkers, but they are huge, heavy things that move around on land. Obviously something that walks would be incredibly difficult to build, but I certainly don't put it out of the realm of possibility. But you would really have to figure out some ways to handle all the repeated impact stresses from stomping around.

There are "foamed metal" technologies being developed that might (at some point) be able to give you the ability for a very large, strong, but relatively light skeletal infrastructure.

 Ashiraya wrote:
The Emperor really is not that strong in these days. A Warlord could comfortably take on one or two of those and win.

No, a Warlord is going to be wiped off the table by one. The Warlord has 8 D-weapon shots, the Emperor has 26. Granted, it only has 36 HP to the Warlord's 30, but the Warlord's only desperate hope is to shoot first and one-shot the Emperor with a lot of 6s on the D-weapon table while the Emperor will almost certainly annihilate the Warlord in a single round of shooting.


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 Insectum7 wrote:
They aren't walkers, but they are huge, heavy things that move around on land.

Very slowly, on tracks instead of legs, and with no armor. The problem with titans isn't building a titan-shaped structure that doesn't collapse under its own weight, it's building one that can walk and take hits without instantly exploding.