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2016/09/05 13:47:33
Subject: Big Sam is the new England manager: your reaction.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: I only watched that game to spy on the opposition (England and Slovakia being in the same group as Scotland)
but God almighty, that was bloody awful!
Some of those players are on £200,000 a week! For that!
Questions need to be asked in Parliament over the FA's role these past years
They gave us SA as manager, a relegation survival specialist so expect scrappy win, draw, draw, draw, scrappy win and so on.
If you are spying on England, I'll give you a hint, Hart can't save anything to his left...
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
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"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
2016/09/08 14:37:25
Subject: Big Sam is the new England manager: your reaction.
English football would be improved immeasurably by having the money knocked out of it. But football gets as big as it does for as long as it has because it is a ludi magni for the people and the government isnt having to pay into it.
Forget having manager this or manager that.
Get the Olympic girls team around to teach those overpaid prima donnas how to take penalties without being knock kneed with fear and fething everything up.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
2016/09/08 14:49:03
Subject: Big Sam is the new England manager: your reaction.
Orlanth wrote: English football would be improved immeasurably by having the money knocked out of it. But football gets as big as it does for as long as it has because it is a ludi magni for the people and the government isnt having to pay into it.
Forget having manager this or manager that.
Get the Olympic girls team around to teach those overpaid prima donnas how to take penalties without being knock kneed with fear and fething everything up.
That's not a good argument because in the 1970s when English football had no money, and very few foreign players, they failed to qualify for World Cup '74 and '78
Scotland being the dominant home nation back then
Strangely, though, English clubs were Uber successful in the European Cup in the late 1970s, early 1980s.
Liverpool, Aston Villa, Nottingham Forest, all kicked ass in Europe.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/08 14:50:12
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2016/09/08 15:43:18
Subject: Big Sam is the new England manager: your reaction.
If there was really a hunger for improvement in the English game they would limit foreign players and direct proper amounts of money into junior player development of young British players (scouring the world for foreign youth players is not something that the FA should allow - so counter productive).
The FA/Clubs are focused of money generation to the exclusion of all else.
Young British players cannot get any amount of game time at big clubs. Jack Willshire (80 odd games 8 or so seasons) just hasn't played enough football at 24 (injuries aside) to develop into a great player. There is too much money spent on foreign journeymen who then get paid to justify the fees paid.
This just doesn't happen in places like Germany where their players are getting 20-30 games season at 22 at decent clubs.
There's no lack of British talent, it's just poorly handled allot of the time. Dyer is a great ad for you British talent that has developed early enough to give him a chance of becoming a great player....and he learnt his trade in Portugal! Then there's Vardy; clearly a good player never got a game at the top level till his late 20's. Plenty of others in the Championship that just don't get a chance.
I think the state of the English game is terrible at the moment, but it's been like this for 10-15 years.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/08 15:44:25
How do you promote your Hobby? - Legoburner "I run some crappy wargaming website "
2016/09/08 15:58:01
Subject: Big Sam is the new England manager: your reaction.
notprop wrote: Who all had great managers that spent big money.
If there was really a hunger for improvement in the English game they would limit foreign players and direct proper amounts of money into junior player development of young British players (scouring the world for foreign youth players is not something that the FA should allow - so counter productive).
The FA/Clubs are focused of money generation to the exclusion of all else.
Young British players cannot get any amount of game time at big clubs. Jack Willshire (80 odd games 8 or so seasons) just hasn't played enough football at 24 (injuries aside) to develop into a great player. There is too much money spent on foreign journeymen who then get paid to justify the fees paid.
This just doesn't happen in places like Germany where their players are getting 20-30 games season at 22 at decent clubs.
There's no lack of British talent, it's just poorly handled allot of the time. Dyer is a great ad for you British talent that has developed early enough to give him a chance of becoming a great player....and he learnt his trade in Portugal! Then there's Vardy; clearly a good player never got a game at the top level till his late 20's. Plenty of others in the Championship that just don't get a chance.
I think the state of the English game is terrible at the moment, but it's been like this for 10-15 years.
Big money? Buying a player from Aldershot for 5 shillings 6 pence is not my idea of big money!
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2016/09/08 16:03:22
Subject: Big Sam is the new England manager: your reaction.
There was allot of controversy when Brian Clough took Forest from the old 2rd division to the 1st and won the European cup in the space of a few years. Trevor Francis for £1M was ground breaking at the time.
How do you promote your Hobby? - Legoburner "I run some crappy wargaming website "
2016/09/08 16:05:49
Subject: Big Sam is the new England manager: your reaction.
notprop wrote: There was allot of controversy when Brian Clough took Forest from the old 2rd division to the 1st and won the European cup in the space of a few years. Trevor Francis for £1M was ground breaking at the time.
A million pound is loose change these days, but Clough's achievement was still pretty damn good. Should have been England manager.
If memory serves, I don't think Clough rated Big Sam that highly
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2016/09/08 16:10:31
Subject: Big Sam is the new England manager: your reaction.
If there was really a hunger for improvement in the English game they would limit foreign players and direct proper amounts of money into junior player development of young British players (scouring the world for foreign youth players is not something that the FA should allow - so counter productive).
The FA/Clubs are focused of money generation to the exclusion of all else.
Young British players cannot get any amount of game time at big clubs. Jack Willshire (80 odd games 8 or so seasons) just hasn't played enough football at 24 (injuries aside) to develop into a great player. There is too much money spent on foreign journeymen who then get paid to justify the fees paid.
This just doesn't happen in places like Germany where their players are getting 20-30 games season at 22 at decent clubs.
There's no lack of British talent, it's just poorly handled allot of the time. Dyer is a great ad for you British talent that has developed early enough to give him a chance of becoming a great player....and he learnt his trade in Portugal! Then there's Vardy; clearly a good player never got a game at the top level till his late 20's. Plenty of others in the Championship that just don't get a chance.
I think the state of the English game is terrible at the moment, but it's been like this for 10-15 years.
I cant speak to this issue from a football standpoint, but I can try to draw parallels to Rugby, where those of us who watch that sport can see the long term ramifications of what is apparently going on in English soccer.
France currently is the highest paid professional rugby league.... They have spend enormous amounts of money on importing the best Kiwis, Aussies, and south African players. Of those big three, New Zealand is hurt the least, because they have a very strict policy of domestic play equals you being in the pool for All Black selection. On the flip side of that, we've seen France go from a perennial contender for the 5 and 6 Nations tournaments to somewhere at or near the bottom every year. The native player pool that constitutes those able to pull on the national shirt are immensely harmed because for a fairly significant amount of time, they've not been seeing game time at the top tier clubs.
Welsh rugby is also apparently going through much of this because of national origin policies, many Welsh players qualify for, and are opting for English play and the England shirt.
I agree with you that it would seem that in order to build and maintain a good sized, effective player pool, you must have home players playing at home as much as possible.
2016/10/12 10:02:05
Subject: Re:Big Sam is the new England manager: your reaction.
..... I guess he's , technically, got the best win/loss ratio of any England manager thus far.
Glad to see we've quickly gotten back to normal with England beating teams like Malta then failing as soon as they face a big footballing nation like Slovenia or Iceland.....
Feel a little bit sorry for Southgate.... not sure he's a great fit but don't think there's a lot of other options.
Think people should calm down about Rooney too.
Everyone has a dip in form now and again.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
2016/10/14 19:11:28
Subject: Big Sam is the new England manager: your reaction.
Orlanth wrote: English football would be improved immeasurably by having the money knocked out of it. But football gets as big as it does for as long as it has because it is a ludi magni for the people and the government isnt having to pay into it.
Forget having manager this or manager that.
Get the Olympic girls team around to teach those overpaid prima donnas how to take penalties without being knock kneed with fear and fething everything up.
And also how to get back up after falling over during a tackle. The amount of time spent lying/rolling on the floor (but only until they're certain they won't get a free kick) instead of getting up and chasing after the player who just got the ball is infuriating.
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
2016/10/15 06:43:24
Subject: Big Sam is the new England manager: your reaction.
Orlanth wrote: English football would be improved immeasurably by having the money knocked out of it. But football gets as big as it does for as long as it has because it is a ludi magni for the people and the government isnt having to pay into it.
Forget having manager this or manager that.
Get the Olympic girls team around to teach those overpaid prima donnas how to take penalties without being knock kneed with fear and fething everything up.
And also how to get back up after falling over during a tackle. The amount of time spent lying/rolling on the floor (but only until they're certain they won't get a free kick) instead of getting up and chasing after the player who just got the ball is infuriating.
Stop complaining to the ref during matches. Once a decision is made it wont be overturned. Mouth shut and play on.
2016/10/31 16:56:57
Subject: Re:Big Sam is the new England manager: your reaction.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:England's traditional football rival - Germany.
Always thought it was fairly presumptuous of England to consider themselves a big rival of Germany. It's certainly never been anything more than a one-way rivalry.
Ensis Ferrae wrote:Isn't that sort of what they've done with the German national team?? I recall seeing one of those mini documentaries some time back, that the manager is out front with his ideals, and if players don't conform to them, they're gone. The thing with Germany has been though, through that management, the best and brightest of that nation have bought into it and the results are generally pretty good. (I'd reckon it's something similar to the All Blacks in rugby)
The Germans have been farming talent since the disasterous 90s, they're scouting them by age 6 and putting them in development. It's paid off for them, that's why their bench is usually just as dangerous as their starters. Keeping the Bundesliga clubs under German control doesn't hurt either, it's in their best interests to develop local talent - something England has really screwed themselves on. The AB's are huge in rugby because rugby is practically the religion in NZ and not really taken that seriously by anyone else.
5000
2016/10/31 23:01:56
Subject: Re:Big Sam is the new England manager: your reaction.
Always thought it was fairly presumptuous of England to consider themselves a big rival of Germany. It's certainly never been anything more than a one-way rivalry.
Yup, Germany's rivals are Italy (they somehow manage to win when it matters) and the Netherlands (historic)
The Germans have been farming talent since the disasterous 90s, they're scouting them by age 6 and putting them in development. It's paid off for them, that's why their bench is usually just as dangerous as their starters. Keeping the Bundesliga clubs under German control doesn't hurt either, it's in their best interests to develop local talent - something England has really screwed themselves on. The AB's are huge in rugby because rugby is practically the religion in NZ and not really taken that seriously by anyone else.
It was Euro 2000 that was the disaster (wikipedia link). Germany was more or less tactically naive and relying on individual brilliance and Kampfgeist (fighting spirit) to win games and that wasn't working anymore. Here's a nice overview about the restructuring that happened after the tournament. The main roadblocks for England (if they wanted to try something similar) are that there is so much money in the PL that many good young players spend much of their time on the bench instead of on the pitch because on the one hand the money buys many good players for the first team and on the other hand most teams outside the PL would never be able to afford similar high wages for teenagers (and PL teams have a quote of locally educated talent). The second problem might be that english football (in general) might not be as willing to accept a top down restructuring like the DFB (german football association) did over here.
Here are some quotes from the article linked above (for people who don't want to read it all):
Spoiler:
In the 12 years preceding their World Cup win in Brazil, the Germans have not only built 52 centres of excellence to school the most promising talents, but also 366 regional coaching bases where 1,300 professional, full-time coaches teach youngsters the basics of the modern game.
This enormous investment was basically a very expensive admission that the Germans had missed more or less every bus that left the station during the 1990s. Throughout that decade, then-national coach Berti Vogts warned the country again and again that no talents were coming through and that Germany was resting on its laurels and would soon be overtaken by other countries.
Which is why Jörg Daniel, a former Bundesliga goalkeeper and the director of the Extended Talent Promotion Programme, explained the aim of the project on the day it was presented to the public by saying: "If the talent of the century happens to be born in a tiny village behind the mountains, from now on we will find him."
In 2001 and 2002, as the Extended Talent Promotion Programme was devised and launched, the DFB and the DFL added a new rule to these regulations: it said that every professional club in the country had to build or maintain a centre of excellence and had to nurture talent.
The rule even specified how many players eligible for a German national youth team had to be in the squads, how many coaches and physios the club had to employ, in which way the clubs had to interact with local schools and so on and on. Failure to do this would result in a club's licence being withdrawn. Put simply, the clubs were told what to do, on pain of demotion to the amateur game.
Then there are two more, sometimes overlooked aspects of the German football revolution that make it hard to copy: a social and a cultural sea-change.
The social change was obvious for anyone to see as early as 2009. That was when Germany won the U21 European Championship against England. The most interesting thing about that German squad was its extremely cosmopolitan background: Russian (Andreas Beck), Polish (Sebastian Boenisch), Ghanaian (Jerome Boateng), Nigerian (Dennis Aogo, Chinedu Ede), American (Fabian Johnson), Spanish (Gonzalo Castro), Tunisian (Sami Khedira, Änis Ben-Hatira), Iranian (Ashkan Dejagah) and Turkish (Mesut Özil).
2016/11/01 05:15:25
Subject: Re:Big Sam is the new England manager: your reaction.
Yeah, I mentioned the 90s because Euro2000 was the icing on a very average cake. After the big 1990 wc win the wheels fell off the Mannschaft, the 1998 wc quarterfinal exit was one of the worst performances by a German wc team. Too much emphasis on individual talent - the same reason south american teams are usually so overrated in tournaments.
Mario wrote: Yup, Germany's rivals are Italy (they somehow manage to win when it matters) and the Netherlands (historic)
Agree on Netherlands, they've been invoking WW2 since they got smoked in '74 but at least they're a dangerous team, Italy just stacks the backline and fishes for penalties so that's just a case of their tactics being a decent counter to Germany's aggressive style, their team is aging so it will be interesting to see how they are doing in another 2 years. England consistently fails to advance from group stages at major tournaments - when they even manage to qualify, has never won Euro (Germany has 3 times) and their only world cup victory was a sham (compared to Germany's 4 titles from 9 appearances at wc final matches). Even the German women are 2 times world champions. A rivalry would imply some kind of even playing field or a tit-for-tat history of close games, not channeling the Battle of Britain every time you win a home friendly.
5000
2016/11/12 09:26:46
Subject: Re:Big Sam is the new England manager: your reaction.
... so looks like Southgate will get the job then ?
Suspect he might well last longer than Strachan will be in his anyway.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
2016/11/16 09:36:52
Subject: Re:Big Sam is the new England manager: your reaction.
.. I'll grant you they had a bit more possession .. but we coped alright.
Not really a full strength Spanish side though right ?
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
2016/11/16 10:13:19
Subject: Re:Big Sam is the new England manager: your reaction.
.. I'll grant you they had a bit more possession .. but we coped alright.
Not really a full strength Spanish side though right ?
Is this thread still going?
Last night summed up the problem for England - lack of decent opposition.
Top players won't bust a gut in a friendly, and so, England are caught in a vicious cycle.
Because of their high seeding, they cruise through qualifying, and then when they meet a top nation at a tournament...well...
We all know what happens next.
The FA are boasting that they made £100 million last year. Will it go towards developing more UEFA B grade coaches for schools and youth football, like what Iceland did with their money?
Silly question.
As a percentage of the relative population, Iceland has more UEFA B level coaches than England
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2016/12/21 10:21:26
Subject: Re:Big Sam is the new England manager: your reaction.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
5000 
.. but we coped alright.
