Blackwater Gulch - Kickstarter Pledge Manager Live!

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**Necros**

Yep, all new minis will be unicast and have a base already attached so it's ready to play right out of the box. They'll be just like the jersey devil sculpt, most will have a rocky theme, but the bases are flat enough that if you wanted to cover it with flock and do your own style that will work fine too.

For now I'm still planning to include extra 30mm bases with them so they will match the old minis, but the game doesn't really have a base size rule like other games do. So the extra bases aren't really necessary, they're more just for aesthetics. Bigger models that won't be able to be unicasted will have to come with a separate base and be done in regular resin, but I'm planning to have a custom base sculpted along with them too. Just about anything under 50mm tall should be fine for unicast though.

**ced1106**

Yeah, I just meant you pick up the two Shadows of Brimstone base games and make up stats for the *miniatures* in those sets. Some of the miniatures are generic enough you probably already have stats for them. (BTW, some of the SoB boardgame owners are looking for better sculpts to replace their SoB miniatures, so there's your way into that market as well.)

**highlord tamburlaine**

There's a few big mini board game focused facebook groups it would certainly be worth posting in.

I probably will if nobody beats me to it..

**Necros**

Actually it would be super awesome if you could share the KS link with any facebook groups or other forums or wherever when we launch it. There's so many out there I could never find them all myself.

I mostly just post here and a couple of other forms I read, but I'm also doing a 1 week takeover ad on beasts of war and a banner ad on tabletop gaming news.. and then also have an announcement on those 2 sites plus the miniatures page and BOLS Gamewire.

I've been wanting to pick up SOB so maybe now would be a good time to check it out. I was out of cash when they ran the campaign so I didn't get a chance to back it. I could probably put together a PDF with stats for some of their minis some day. That's actually something I had planned to do for my generic rules, I'd take a boxed game like Descent or Dungeon Saga and then put together stats so you could use those minis with my skirmish rules.

**AegisGrimm**

Seems like making stats for Shadows of Brimstone is prefect for players to do on their own, if Blackwater Gulch is as easy to make stats for a gang as the fantasy supplement rules.

Half the fun of the ruleset is finding your own figures and statting them up to make them unique to you.

**Necros**

Yeah, it's all the same rules.. so it's pretty easy to build your own Blackwater Gulch characters. Will be the same way for any other game worlds we do in the future too

**Necros**

Here is the Kickstarter preview page. Still a work in progress, we have some photos to add, but all the info is there at least.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gangfightgames/1343971291?token=43a10a36

I'm still waiting on photos of the Unicast samples, will hopefully have them later this week. If not, we'll do a campaign update as soon as we get the pics. The 3D prints are happening this week, so I'm not sure we'll have the actual minis to show till next week.

Also not sure about the stretch goals.. I have a list prepared, not sure if I should just show them all? Or just a few at a time? I kind of think it's tacky to show a big list on day 1, but at the same time when I back a campaign I do like to see what else is planned.

For this campaign though I have a finite amount planned, just a few booster packs and bonus minis. I want to have a stopping point so that we can deliver everything on time rather than dragging on and on into multiple waves (and years).

**JoshInJapan**

So, the starter box doesn't come with a gang, then?

**Necros**

No, it's just the rules as a deluxe edition box set kind of thing. At first we were going to do just the usual hardback rulebook & separate starters, but I wanted something more special. And I admit I stole the idea from Twisted

It would have been very expensive to have the minis included as a full boxed game. I wouldn't mind being able to do 2-player starter packs some day along the lines of what Infinity has been doing with theirs, but I think the game needs to have a larger audience and be more well known first and available in game shops. We would have to print well into the thousands of copies to be able to get a worthwhile price with all the printing and components that would be involved.

**AegisGrimm**

Plus as cool as the official figures are, using other systems figures like Reaper Bones (especially Deadlands for western-horror) lets players build workable gangs for like 15 dollars.

**ced1106**

Looks like backers can join at the Gunslinger pledge, and have their own starter set. After reading the comments on the RuneWars Miniature Starter Set (and one of the old Warhammer starter boxes) not having fixed factions with a starter box may be a good idea.

For stretch goals, you only need to show the next SG and possibly the one after that. If you run out of tangible SG's, there're always scenarios, papercxraft buildings, etc.

I've also seen KS that included existing product as add-ons, rather than redirection to a website.

How about a $10 add-on or pledge level that gets you the final rules PDF, item deck, and cardboard tokens?

And a free final rules PDF for backers or backers over $50?

**Necros**

Yep, you can easily use any miniatures you want, you can even create your own monsters too.

I have goals planned out to around $100k. Honestly not expecting to get that high, but one can hope

In the end we'll have the 3 starter packs, plus around 6 3-man booster packs and another 100 or so pages of fluff & special scenarios added to the rulebook. which would end up increasing the retail price in the end, but not the KS price.

There will always be free PDF rules though.. but the free rules will be just the rules.. all of the fluff and stuff is going to be in the printed book.

Also, if we do happen to run out of goals, I could make "fake" goals and upgrade the old metal minis to plastic.. that will happen eventually, but it will still cost a bit to do so I was going to save that for next year or slowly replace them as the metal stock sells out. Some of the newer minis that were 3D sculpts will be easy to convert but a lot of the early minis that were done in greenstuff will have to be resculpted. I'm just about sold out of the Tranquility Crew right now, and they were greenstuff, so they will probably be the first old gang to get resculpted and converted. And it makes sense since they are one of my biggest sellers for some reason

I don't want to get too far ahead of myself though.. even though I have lots of new minis planned I want the main focus to be the new rules.. since I'm going to need to print a lot of copies.. at least 1000, but aiming for 2000 to get a better unit price.

**highlord tamburlaine**

It may have been answered before, but what scale exactly are the figures averaging at?

Brimstone, Wild West Exodus, Malifaux and the like all seem to be clocking in around 32-35mm.

Are these going to be more traditional sizes?

**JoshInJapan**

Will the new minis sets be more expensive than the older ones, or are the old ones due for a price hike?

**Necros**

As far as sizes go, all of our minis are 30mm to the eye. they're about half a head taller than Black Scorpion's minis, but I don't have any of those other brands to compare. But from what I've seen I think they will be a good match for Malifaux

And for prices... the old minis will remain at their current prices until they are sold out. Then, they will get a price hike more in line with the new prices, because we'll need to produce more boxes and new character cards. That's also kind of why I'd like to be able to update them all to plastic, so the packaging and all will match better.

**Necros**

3D Prints for the Unsung are done now. Here they are

I'll hopefully have production copies ready to show off next week.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

Those look great

**Bossk_Hogg**

What's the thing on axe guy's belt? It kind of looks like a 2nd hat.

Sculpts look solid! You managed a lot with a one piece design goal.

**Necros**

It's a big silver bear trap, for catching were-things

**Bossk_Hogg**

Necros wrote:
It's a big silver bear trap, for catching were-things

THAT makes more sense! I was looking at the zig zag and thinking it was the brim of a sombrero. Though sometimes you do need to double hat up!

**primogenesis**

The unicast decision is really interesting, Prodos have inspired some 'passionate' responses but I think it will only take a couple of successful KS's using unicast to make that fade away. It really is an interesting prospect for miniatures casting because it really does enable a level of detail and quality that boardgame PVC cant match at a very affordable price.

These are some very very nice sculpts that also look like they have been produced by an experience sculptor who knows what will and what won't cast well. The unicast enables a price point that really is in the sweet spot and I think this has the potential to do exceptionally well

**Necros**

Campaign is live!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gangfightgames/blackwater-gulch-second-edition

**Huginn**

I like the sculpts and would be interested, but the shipping to UK is $40 - that right?

**Necros**

Yes, $40.. wish it wasn't that high but not much I can do about that :(

That said though, the minis are fairly light, it's the rules that makes it so heavy since it's a big hardback book.

**Huginn**

Yeah, it's a shame, postage is so expensive these days. It kills the deal for me, but I wish you the best of success, I like the models. Maybe I can pick them up in the UK at a later stage.

**Necros**

If you go in for just the models, it will be pretty light

They’re plastic, I’m guesstimating each new gang set will weigh around 4-5 ounces, max.. all 3 new gangs would likely be under a pound. I bet the box they come in will weigh more than the minis

But also, we decided to cap the UK/EU shipping at $30 for the Gunslinger pledge, to help out a little. Trying to see if ShipNaked can get the cost any lower. Here’s today’s update:

Howdy Pardners!

Wow, what a great first day! Just under 24 hours and we’re just over half way there! Thank you all so much for your support! We still need your help though.. tell your friends! The sooner we are able to get funded, the sooner we can start reaching for those stretch goals.. we have a lot planned.. many new monsters, and new heroes too!

Many have asked about our classic gangs and miniatures and in our previous updated we mentioned that you can add them in to your pledge. These are old starter sets that are already packaged and shrinkwrapped and waiting for you in our warehouse. Because they are prepackaged, they will all include first edition character cards. Those aren’t compatible with the new Second Edition rules. We were going to print separate gang card packs to include with your pledges if you order an old gang, but we think it will be easier to just include a full deck of character cards in with the 2nd edition boxed ruleset. That was part of our original printing quote, but we weren't sure if it was something we would need to include or not. Since many have asked for the new cards, we will include that deck after all. That will be a deck of 64 cards in all! We’ll get the main page graphic updated this evening to show that.

That leads me to the rulebook. If you downloaded the preview, you’ll see there are character stats in there for everyone. If the cards are included, do you want those stats in the book too? We may be able to lower the page count a bit, and overall weight, by omitting those and just sticking with art and bios. What do you think?

Next up, many have asked about UK & EU shipping costs. Unfortunately, due to the rules weighing over 3 pounds, shipping will be expensive. We are talking to ShipNaked about that right now to see if there is any way we can get it lower. We won’t be printing enough copies to send a whole second boat from China to Europe, we would need to print well into the thousands to make that work. Right now our plans are to print just 1000 copies total. At any rate, since the plastic miniatures are going to be fairly light, what we have decided to do is make each Gunslinger ($95) pledge cost a maximum of $30 to UK/EU and any other country listed as Zone 2. Those countries are:

Argentina (AR), Australia (AU), Austria (AT), Bahrain (BH), Belarus (BY), Belgium (BE), Belize (BZ), Bulgaria (BG), Brunei Darussalam (BN), Canada (CA), Cayman Islands (KY), Chile (CL), China (CN), Colombia (CO), Costa Rica (CR), Croatia (HR), Cyprus (CY), Czech Republic (CZ), Denmark (DK), Estonia (EE), Finland (FI), France (FR), Germany (DE), Greece (GR), Hong Kong (HK), Hungary (HU), Iceland (IS), India (IN), Indonesia (ID), Ireland (IE), Israel (IL), Italy (IT), Japan (JP), Korea, Republic of (KR), Latvia (LV), Lithuania (LT), Luxembourg (LU), Malaysia (MY), Malta (MT), Montenegro (ME), Netherlands (NL), New Zealand (NZ), Norway (NO), Peru (PE), Philippines (PH), Poland (PL), Portugal (PT), Qatar (QA), Romania (RO), Saudi Arabia (SA), Serbia (RS), Singapore (SG), Slovakia (SK), Slovenia (SI), South Africa (ZA), Spain (ES), Sweden (SE), Switzerland (CH), Taiwan (TW), Thailand (TH), Turkey (TR), Ukraine (UA), United Arab Emirates (AE), United Kingdom (GB)

Hopefully that will make things a bit more affordable for our Gunsligners across the sea! We will let everyone know if we are able to get those costs any lower as well.

Thanks again for your support! Please spread the world!

**Necros**

Big update today! Cheaper shipping for the UK and some stretch goal updates.

Howdy Pardners!

Things are moving along very nice, we are now up to 65% and climbing!

I have some great news for UK backers! We will now be able to send a small shipment of Gameworld Rulesets and Gang Starter Sets to the ShipNaked warehouse in the UK, to cover all UK and EU pledges. This means the shipping price for UK backers has just dropped to $4 per pound, the same as US shipping! And we get a small discount on the rest of the EU, which will be $8 per pound. Other parts of the world will still be $10 a pound, but we are also capping the shipping charge at $30 for Gunslinger pledges. We hope these new shipping costs will help you out and entice more gunslingers to join the fray!

Next up, we have decided to shuffle around some stretch goals. Since the Jersey Devil miniature is already sculpted, we decided to just include that for free with all Gunslinger and Bounty Hunter pledges! However, to save on costs, he won't come packed in a final retail box like everything else, but we'll stick him in a clamshell for protection.

Since he is no longer a stretch goal, we decided to move Ashton Cambell up to the $25,000 stretch goal and revealed a new character to the $35,000 spot.. Mr. Kreeper. He's based on the monster from the movie Jeeper's Creepers, who wore a duster and a hat, so he fits! We'll show some more after we hit the funding goal.. lots on deck! We just updated the main campaign page with new graphics to illustrate the new goals and pledge levels. Here is Mr. Kreeper, in case you haven't seen him before:

That's all for today's update. Tomorrow we hope to be getting preview pics of the final Unsung production minis, so we'll show them off when we get them!

Thank you again for your support! Please continue to help spread the word! We're getting closer!

**MindwormGames**

Hey Necros. You should put a link directly to the KS page in your signature line or at the bottom of your posts.

I clicked around a few times and couldn't land on the KS page, which might be all some folks are willing to click.

Here's a direct link to the Kickstarter page.

The minis look awesome, by the way! Are you still using the same sculptor?

Edit: Oh, yea. BACKED! Nice-looking stuff you've got here. Wild West solidarity, baby!

**Necros**

Gee whiz, totally forgot about that. Been real busy these last few days to say the least

but thanks! Added it now.

We’re using a couple of different sculptors. Clint Maclean did all of the Wormwood Wardens and other skinwalkers. JinVe did Miss Lavoe, Charlie Graves and Ruthie Mae. Prodos’ sculptor did the rest of the Unsung minis. And Krisztian Hartman did Fester, The Rake, Eater of Hearts and the Jersey Devil, and also the rocky bases that all of the minis will get. Also Bob Naismith did the Jackalope and Heavy Bolter, those will be later stretch goals if we can get to them.

**Necros**

Howdy Pardners!

As promised, here is a photo if the first batch of production miniatures for the Unsung!

Click here for a high res close up version.

As you can see, the miniatures are all 1 piece! Even Van Dyke running with his Rifle and J. W. Clarkson swinging his axe. In metal they would have had to be 2 or 3 pieces, not to mention the bases. I'm still amazed whenever I see them.

I've also decided to splurge a little and I asked Krisztian to start the sculpt for Ashton Campbell. He's one character I really would love to add to the game, so I'm hoping that seeing the final sculpt will help entice more folks to jump in and get him unlocked

I will share that when I get pictures, it will probably take a week or so.

I think we're in a good place and are at exactly 75% funded now, and climbing. Please share with all of your friends