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 Manchu wrote:
Works for a novel, would be lame for the visual medium (maybe even comics).

Except that's exactly how they were depicted in the Sci-fi Channel adaptation and that's still the best "visual" interpretation of the story, for my money.

Well we are diametrically opposed there. I love the Lynch production: the casting, the sets, the costumes ... all of it is, to my taste, the very summit of design for Dune (so far) but I know that another creative team could start from that and do even better, like with Gorrem's gallery on DeviantArt or some of the earlier stuff from the CCG. To my eyes, Scifi's Dune looks like BBC-level cheap crap.

 Manchu wrote:
Well we are diametrically opposed there. I love the Lynch production: the casting, the sets, the costumes ... all of it is, to my taste, the very summit of design for Dune (so far) but I know that another creative team could start from that and do even better, like with Gorrem's gallery on DeviantArt or some of the earlier stuff from the CCG. To my eyes, Scifi's Dune looks like BBC-level cheap crap.

As you like. Personally I'll take a faithful adaptation with a lower budget over a lavish vanity project any day.

I don't know about visuals, but I think the miniseries was certainly a better thematic presentation of the books. Lynch's movie had lots of style, but loses too many important themes over doo-dads and details. The weirding modules are one example. Neat ray guns, but the Fremen won not because of their tech, but their fervor, ferocity and skills.

Edit: And heart plugs? Good god. I'd like to say that the ending undermines almost every important theme from the books, but then most of those themes aren't in Lynch's film anyway, so whatever.

Regarding mouth filters and hoods, the miniseries simply had them open their masks when the actors needed to act. Which is still terrible water discipline, but it worked decently enough. You could have some of both worlds by just writing it so that big monologues or dialogues aren't made in the open desert.

Regarding that artwork, the best thing in there is the one showing loose robes over the stillsuit...which is how Fremen wore them in open desert. In a visual medium, one could also use color on the robes to distinguish between characters even if the faces are hidden.

Ah don't get me wrong - I think Lynch's movie is confusing and messy in terms of plot and theme. It's the production I revere.

Here's a thought - film all desert sequences as long shots so that the identity of any given human spec on in the frame is immaterial. Thematically, this would suggest the self-effacing discipline of the Fremen culture. Cinematographically, this would emphasize the awful enormity of the harsh ecosystem.

There's a great point there -- the planet itself and its ecology is a central part of the story and practically a character unto itself. Yet the two adaptations we've seen don't show off Arrakis they way they should have.

There's only the one quick shot of rolling dunes to the horizon in the Lynch film. The rest of the desert scenes are shot fairly tightly (although I think the sequence with Paul walking out with the maker hooks with Fremen on the dunes behind him has some really nice photography).



And the miniseries was done on a shoestring budget that made heavy use of matte paintings and now (maybe even then) sub-par CGI. Although I think it at least did a better job establishing the terrain around Arrakeen, including the shield wall. It gets a hole blown in it in the Lynch film, but it's not clearly established why that's important.

Arrakis could really shine with a real budget and today's technology.

When you get to the "Children of Dune" miniseries though, they do certainly try to show off more of the world, particularly during parts two and 3.

OH! One thing. As for Jarowalsky's Dune and it's TRIPPY version of the story... he did finish it in a form! He made a comic book that's based on a very Dune-like universe premise, but ultra-trippy.

Check this out:
https://www.amazon.com/Metabarons-Ultimate-Collection-Alexandro-Jodorowsky/dp/1594650144/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1470354808&sr=8-7&keywords=the+metabarons

Google that stuff and you can find better prices and whatnot, but it's a fantastic story and has amazing art.

Kyle McLachlan explains the Dune film in one Tweet.

http://boingboing.net/2016/08/17/kyle-paul-atreides-mclachl.html

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Kyle McLachlan explains the Dune film in one Tweet.

http://boingboing.net/2016/08/17/kyle-paul-atreides-mclachl.html

That’s awesome! Scary part is I could track the movie through the emoji and understand.

 Nevelon wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Kyle McLachlan explains the Dune film in one Tweet.

http://boingboing.net/2016/08/17/kyle-paul-atreides-mclachl.html

That’s awesome! Scary part is I could track the movie through the emoji and understand.

Yes, surprisingly accurate...

I always thought Herbert should have taken a leaf from Tolkien - written his masterpiece then shut up.
The Dune sequels had interesting properties but detracted from the genius of the original story.

Um there's like two dozen other like of the rings books other than Hobbit / Lotr

 Compel wrote:
Um there's like two dozen other like of the rings books other than Hobbit / Lotr

Most of which were collected notes, published by his son. Not polished books. Interesting as a glimpse into the mind/world, but not as coherently put together.

The best two of the post-mortem Tolkien books are The Silmarilion and Unfinished Tales. The Silmarillion is the better of those. It's a readable finished book though a collection of stories rather than a complete narrative novel.

Starting from Unfinished Tales (there's a clue in the title) things got more and more sketchy as Tolkien's son had to interpret and embroider the increasingly scanty notes that JRR himself had left behind.

IDK if Tolkien ever intended to publish any of this material. He wrote a huge amount of stuff mainly for his own interest.

 Orlanth wrote:
I always thought Herbert should have taken a leaf from Tolkien - written his masterpiece then shut up.
The Dune sequels had interesting properties but detracted from the genius of the original story.

Not quite like unlike how Ender's Game became increasingly bizarre. I guess it's all about the money. :-/ Well, not entirely. I could see an author using an established and beloved IP to further an idea since it has an increased likelihood of being read as opposed to creating an entirely new IP that may just be ignored.

I really love the original Dune novel. It's a thing of beauty yet to be surpassed by anything I've read in Scifi. I think an accurate cinematic portrayal is all but impossible though. It waxes overly philosophical to get the necessary funding for the sheer scope of the book.

Has it attracted similar criticism as Star Wars in that it is more of a space opera/fantasy that seemingly venerates Messianic figures and a ruling elite?

 Kilkrazy wrote:

IDK if Tolkien ever intended to publish any of this material. He wrote a huge amount of stuff mainly for his own interest.

Silmarillion was intended for publication as a supporting history. For a long time it was the only additional work to support the two novels.
I think Herbert would have best served by writing supporting histories to Dune.

 trexmeyer wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:
I always thought Herbert should have taken a leaf from Tolkien - written his masterpiece then shut up.
The Dune sequels had interesting properties but detracted from the genius of the original story.

Not quite like unlike how Ender's Game became increasingly bizarre. I guess it's all about the money. :-/ Well, not entirely. I could see an author using an established and beloved IP to further an idea since it has an increased likelihood of being read as opposed to creating an entirely new IP that may just be ignored.

I really love the original Dune novel. It's a thing of beauty yet to be surpassed by anything I've read in Scifi. I think an accurate cinematic portrayal is all but impossible though. It waxes overly philosophical to get the necessary funding for the sheer scope of the book.

Has it attracted similar criticism as Star Wars in that it is more of a space opera/fantasy that seemingly venerates Messianic figures and a ruling elite?

If you only read the first book, then you're liable to see it as a typical messianic rise of the hero type plot. The point of the first trilogy is that Paul can't control the forces he unleashed and exploited. He's very fallible and in fact ultimately fails spectacularly. Mostly because he is a good person, but it's a failure nonetheless and his son is left to do what Paul should have done.

Some concepts get stranger in DM and CoD, but there are quite a few people who get turned off just because they're about the fall and failure of the hero-messiah. But that is the point of the first trilogy.

TL;DR. Dune is basically a tin can Herbert sets up to knock over in DM and CoD. Ignore those two books and all you get is the tin can, and none of the lessons that Herbert tries to teach.

I loved the original book and have read it multiple times. I read the rest of the originals up through God Emperor of Dune. I thought it went downhill quickly. Dune was epic and heroic, a great fast moving story. The rest slowed down to a crawl and turned into philosophical trash. Then when his son took over I greatly enjoyed those books as they got back to stories and the rise and fall of characters who actually went and did stuff. Really liked the original backstory trilogy with the machines.

My first experience of Dune was the Lynch film, so I was absolutely bamboozled by what I was watching.

I then discovered the books later, and they have grown into some of my favourite ever. From Dune to God-Emperor of Dune, they are astounding. They also made me look on the Lynch film a bit softer. It's not Dune as it should be in my mind, but it's still enjoyable I enjoyed the Sci-Fi one as well.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Kyle McLachlan explains the Dune film in one Tweet.

http://boingboing.net/2016/08/17/kyle-paul-atreides-mclachl.html

Can anyone translate this into non-emoji? I don't speak pokemon.

None of my devices use emojis - and the point of language was to get away from heiroglyphs ...

There's a book called Dune that explains all the emojis at some length, mostly in English.

Very good!

The bed and shocked awakening is Muad-dib entering a coma after taking the water of life and becoming enlightened as the Kwisatz Haderach. I think.

I loved the Original Dune book, the 2 follow-ups are good too. The themes are just so relevant to all of Human history and still relevant today.

Humanity vs the Environment and the Barbarian vs Civilisation.

God-Emperor was hard work, but is important in its own way, I really like finding out what the Golden path is, it makes alot of sense really. I am currently reading book 5 and I am still enjoying it.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
There's a book called Dune that explains all the emojis at some length, mostly in English.

Thank you, captain of the bleeding obvious.

Perhaps you lacked the vision to see the oz flag - and thus failed to see the unspoken sarcasm inherent in my post?
(We aussies tend to speak sarcasm as a second language, fluently. It's not something that needs to be said. Like water being wet. )

I have read the books. Heretics came out when I was in high school (when Frank lived in Perth, Western Oz) and so did Chapter House. I read them in High School but that was several decades ago now.

I'm thinking you also missed the UK flag and thus missed the sarcasm in his post.

I think the British pretty much invented sarcasm.

Or least highly refined it!

Anyway, this thread has got me fired up to re-read DUNE and then...the next 5 books!

And that's something I haven't done in a long time - or ever when it comes to books 4 and 5, I think!

To be fair to Chromedog my flag is Japanese not British.

I tend not to be a big fan of book series, so I only read the original and loved it but have little to no interest in the rest. Now if an author writes other things unrelated that is different obliviously.

There are exceptions, but it is generally true. I think the longest series I read were the Robotech books way back in the day. Outside of that trilogy would be about as far as I generally want to go.

 Manchu wrote:
Works for a novel, would be lame for the visual medium (maybe even comics).

Not necessarily, you could have identifiable masks, even ones that artistically mimic the face. It makes sense also as it transfers the persona to the suit, which is important as Fremen wear them the majority of the time.