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Tyranids

Pyrovores gain torrent

Delete skyslasher swarms and add the option to regular ripper swarms at 2ppm

Give Any synapse creature Psudo Eternal warrior: whenever they are hit by an attack that would cause instant death instead they take 2 wounds.

Reduce cost of Tyranid Prime by 20 pts and give a wing option (to make it a jump unit like shrikes) for 10 pts

Blood Angels:

Sanguinary guard: choose jet or jump at start of turn, 1d6 scatter, +1S to encarmine blades, fear included. Also offer sanguine jump pack as wargear option for IC's.

Baal Predator: if with flamer sponsons then sacrifice firing 1 for torrent 6" and 2 for Torrent 12" to the flamestorm cannon.

Furioso Librarian: starts Psy lavel 2, 1 per army can get lvl 3, force weapon gets specialist weapon, can take magna grapple and frag cannon, add 1 to list of archangels hq.

That's 3 unit's that we would maybe now consider taking.

 Galef wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Nemesis greatsword should be Str D when charged with "force" psychic power. That makes a real choice between the weapon and the increased save.

In theme, I like this. But in practice it would thrust the DK into Riptide/WK territory of OP. I'd prefer the DK to stay under that radar.

It's still melee, not ranged D. It would still take a while to chop through TWC or Wraiths. I think it fits fine in 7th ed. The Tau are still never going to be charged because they will shoot it off the table.

I don't understand the reasoning for higher wound/toughness terminators. I mean isn't that what a centurion is?

You can have your 2 wound toughness 6 terminator when my Meganobz get relentless instead of slow and purp., a 5+ invlun for free, deep strike, and more weapon options. Heck I'll even take stupid ork rules that kill my unit for some of those.

Killa Kanz
-remove cowardly grots rule
-DCCWs again please

Weirdboy
-5+ invuln save
-biomancy as an option seems fitting

Flash Gitz
-eavy armor base, as all nobs should
-36" range guns. Whats the point of gitfindas if you have a 24" range gun? you'll need a transport or be running every turn to get in range. Just bad design tbh.

 Quickjager wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Nemesis greatsword should be Str D when charged with "force" psychic power. That makes a real choice between the weapon and the increased save.

That might be a little too much, I love it but... just a little too much.


Anyway my fixes

PAGK: ALL gain +1 attack
Paladins: ML2, Eternal Warrior, 5ppm drop OR Eternal Warrior, Iron Halo, 5ppm drop
Brother-Captain: 25 point drop, upgrade into Grand Master is now 60 points: you gain Eternal Warrior +1 wound for a total of 4.

Relic Change: Relic Halberd becomes AP2 - 40 points total

Why too much? It's 7th ed. The Eldar gak out D like it's going out of style. But a D melee weapon? Stop the presses!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Terminators are mathematically hopeless as a T4 W1 model. However, they can't be justifiably anything else. So, they're hopeless. This problem plagues most of C:BA, as well. The game has moved on from T4 W1 3+ models.

Martel732 wrote:

 Quickjager wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Nemesis greatsword should be Str D when charged with "force" psychic power. That makes a real choice between the weapon and the increased save.

That might be a little too much, I love it but... just a little too much.


Anyway my fixes

PAGK: ALL gain +1 attack
Paladins: ML2, Eternal Warrior, 5ppm drop OR Eternal Warrior, Iron Halo, 5ppm drop
Brother-Captain: 25 point drop, upgrade into Grand Master is now 60 points: you gain Eternal Warrior +1 wound for a total of 4.

Relic Change: Relic Halberd becomes AP2 - 40 points total

Why too much? It's 7th ed. The Eldar gak out D like it's going out of style. But a D melee weapon? Stop the presses!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Terminators are mathematically hopeless as a T4 W1 model. However, they can't be justifiably anything else. So, they're hopeless. This problem plagues most of C:BA, as well. The game has moved on from T4 W1 3+ models.

I think 7th ed has completely lost it's mind is more correct. The game doesn't need to be scaled up to stupidity. It needs a fresh start with a normal usable baseline. Joining the team in charge of your army and going "feth it, you wanna get crazy! Lets get crazy!" Is just idiotic.n ids have 0 access to str d weapons. I wouldn't evwn request that the exocrine get its biolasmic canon get moved up to d. I would suggest the biotitan get it though. That seams like a reasonable baseline.

Martel732 wrote:

 Quickjager wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Nemesis greatsword should be Str D when charged with "force" psychic power. That makes a real choice between the weapon and the increased save.

That might be a little too much, I love it but... just a little too much.


Anyway my fixes

PAGK: ALL gain +1 attack
Paladins: ML2, Eternal Warrior, 5ppm drop OR Eternal Warrior, Iron Halo, 5ppm drop
Brother-Captain: 25 point drop, upgrade into Grand Master is now 60 points: you gain Eternal Warrior +1 wound for a total of 4.

Relic Change: Relic Halberd becomes AP2 - 40 points total

Why too much? It's 7th ed. The Eldar gak out D like it's going out of style. But a D melee weapon? Stop the presses!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Terminators are mathematically hopeless as a T4 W1 model. However, they can't be justifiably anything else. So, they're hopeless. This problem plagues most of C:BA, as well. The game has moved on from T4 W1 3+ models.

Because I have confidence that I can be a good player without a MC D-weapon crutch unlike some xenos armies. This IS a thread about the worst units in a codex not the best afterall.

You need D to engage some of the units in the game now. That's just the reality.

There's been dozens of terminator threads that have all been failures. I declare terminators the ultimate hopeless BA failure unit.

-Warbozz.
*Add ork storm shield to options

-MANZ
* add ork storm shield to options
* make them Ld8

-Loota's
*Back to elite
*Give the mek the Bosspole option
*Give them an option to buy a slotless debree (modeled as loot) fortification
*Looted wagons as dedicated transport


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or if you want to buff the unused units in the codex.

Burna's
*Give them a Nob option
*Allow them to buy 3 slotless promethium fuel drumms that have to be moved together with the unit the same was as the relic.


Skorcha's
Give them torrent

Pain bozz.
* Drop them to 25 points
* Make them IG style regimental advisors
* Allow them to take a power klaw ( The model is even modeled with a powr klaw :\ )

 Lance845 wrote:

 Dr. Zoidbork wrote:
@doktor_g, JimOnMars, SemperMortis, Galef

Just gonna throw this out here...

I love your enthusiasm and determination hahah.

Yeah, kind of a cheek to keep on advertising COR, but honestly it's better than any other answer I could give here (even if it's quite a lot more than 3 units), especially considering the utter failure that is the official Ork dex.

Martel732 wrote:
Land Raiders: make them 175 pts, give them dozer blade

Tac terminators: remove them from inventory so no one accidentally ever uses them. Unsalvageable under current rules system. They are the ultimate trap unit.

Tycho: give him some real command benefits as he is on foot.

Dozer blade sure, but 175pt LR is pushing it. And Tactical Terminators aren't unsalvageable, make upgrade guns 0-2 regardless of squad size and start them at 30ppm with a power weapon, option to upgrade to a power fist/chainfist.


It's not like the Eldar need the help, but there are some internal points I can dissect a bit:

Vyper: +1 jink (from a formation, if necessary). Right now there's no good reason to have one over a War Walker (40pts for one gun on a Fast Skimmer body that has to take Dangerous Terrain tests, versus 60pts for two guns on a Walker body that can move-shoot-move, has Scout, and has a 5++ isn't a hard decision), if you plan them around seeking better arcs on enemy vehicles and build their rules around surviving after a shot from an exposed position they'd have a role of their own.

Rangers: Either overhaul the Sniper rule or don't force them to take long rifles. Rangers with shuriken catapults and the option for a fusion gun are suddenly a forward threat people would care about.

Illic: Use his model to proxy as a Vindicare and keep him more than 12" from the rest of your troops and he's dramatically more durable and a better sniper to boot. If we're trying to make him something other than a copy-paste of the Vindicare rules I'd say give his rifle Fleshbane and Haywire over what it's got now. Other approach is to overhaul him and Rangers in general for better close-in fighting so Walker of the Hidden Path actually does something.

Dark Angels

Land Speeder Vengeance
-reduce cost to 100 pts from 125 pts
-allow it to Jink and still fire it's plasma blast template

Nephilim Jetfighter
- Make Blacksword missiles Str. 8 from Str. 7
- Make Avenger Gatling Cannon Str. 7 Ap.3 instead of Str. 6 Ap.4

Sammael
Reduce cost from 200 pts to 150 pts

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Dark Angels

Land Speeder Vengeance
-reduce cost to 100 pts from 125 pts
-allow it to Jink and still fire it's plasma blast template

Nephilim Jetfighter
- Make Blacksword missiles Str. 8 from Str. 7
- Make Avenger Gatling Cannon Str. 7 Ap.3 instead of Str. 6 Ap.4

Sammael
Reduce cost from 200 pts to 150 pts

I might suggest letting the Vengeance ignore or mitigate Gets Hot!, the problem of rolling a 1 and dropping half your hull points remains.

The Nephilim could probably stand a drop to 150-160pts on internal balance, too, but my practice of comparing it to models with a similar role unfortunately has me comparing it to the notoriously undercosted Fire Raptor.

In this thread, someone wants Sammael to be 150 points. NOW I've seen everything.

Sammael is very overcosted for what he provides, I don't even bother running him in my Ravenwing lists and he is now a 60 dollar paperweight.

He's got EW and an AP2 Master Crafted Sword. That's pretty damn good stuff and when you incorporate the other Ravenwing benefits there's no reason to use another Company Master over him.

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Sammael is very overcosted for what he provides, I don't even bother running him in my Ravenwing lists and he is now a 60 dollar paperweight.

Slightly, maybe. Very, not a chance. My guess based on the cost to give other characters the stuff he's got produces a range of 190-240pts for a 'fair cost', though I'm inclined to be generous on that front because if you were building a high-end bike character from the options presented you'd spring for the artificer armour and storm shield first thing.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
He's got EW and an AP2 Master Crafted Sword. That's pretty damn good stuff and when you incorporate the other Ravenwing benefits there's no reason to use another Company Master over him.

Sammael is really not worth it. The sword is bad and EW isn't amazing on T5. I agree the above price drop is over the top though.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
He's got EW and an AP2 Master Crafted Sword. That's pretty damn good stuff and when you incorporate the other Ravenwing benefits there's no reason to use another Company Master over him.

If you're running on a budget, want 2+/3++, or want to try for a more useful Warlord Trait. Not a lot of reasons, but they exist.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Land Raiders: make them 175 pts, give them dozer blade

Tac terminators: remove them from inventory so no one accidentally ever uses them. Unsalvageable under current rules system. They are the ultimate trap unit.

Tycho: give him some real command benefits as he is on foot.

Dozer blade sure, but 175pt LR is pushing it. And Tactical Terminators aren't unsalvageable, make upgrade guns 0-2 regardless of squad size and start them at 30ppm with a power weapon, option to upgrade to a power fist/chainfist.


It's not like the Eldar need the help, but there are some internal points I can dissect a bit:

Vyper: +1 jink (from a formation, if necessary). Right now there's no good reason to have one over a War Walker (40pts for one gun on a Fast Skimmer body that has to take Dangerous Terrain tests, versus 60pts for two guns on a Walker body that can move-shoot-move, has Scout, and has a 5++ isn't a hard decision), if you plan them around seeking better arcs on enemy vehicles and build their rules around surviving after a shot from an exposed position they'd have a role of their own.

Rangers: Either overhaul the Sniper rule or don't force them to take long rifles. Rangers with shuriken catapults and the option for a fusion gun are suddenly a forward threat people would care about.

Illic: Use his model to proxy as a Vindicare and keep him more than 12" from the rest of your troops and he's dramatically more durable and a better sniper to boot. If we're trying to make him something other than a copy-paste of the Vindicare rules I'd say give his rifle Fleshbane and Haywire over what it's got now. Other approach is to overhaul him and Rangers in general for better close-in fighting so Walker of the Hidden Path actually does something.

Note: I still wouldn't pay 175 for the LR. I still wouldn't take a tac terminator under your proposal. Their heavy weapon choices aren't worth the damn points, so giving them two is meaningless.

pm713 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
He's got EW and an AP2 Master Crafted Sword. That's pretty damn good stuff and when you incorporate the other Ravenwing benefits there's no reason to use another Company Master over him.

Sammael is really not worth it. The sword is bad and EW isn't amazing on T5. I agree the above price drop is over the top though.

If EW weren't amazing on T5, nobody would spam EW Chapter Masters on bikes and be content with the T5 + 6+++/IWND. He has:
1. EW with:
2. Rerolling Jink to tank shots
3. Hit And Run
4. 4 attacks at AP2 I5, which allows him to better hit squads while you throw someone else at possible challenges.

There's a TON of utility in what he brings. It's one of the only things I want from that codex.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
He's got EW and an AP2 Master Crafted Sword. That's pretty damn good stuff and when you incorporate the other Ravenwing benefits there's no reason to use another Company Master over him.

Sammael is really not worth it. The sword is bad and EW isn't amazing on T5. I agree the above price drop is over the top though.

If EW weren't amazing on T5, nobody would spam EW Chapter Masters on bikes and be content with the T5 + 6+++/IWND. He has:
1. EW with:
2. Rerolling Jink to tank shots
3. Hit And Run
4. 4 attacks at AP2 I5, which allows him to better hit squads while you throw someone else at possible challenges.

There's a TON of utility in what he brings. It's one of the only things I want from that codex.

1. I said it isn't amazing and it's not. This is different to not being good.
2. Jink kills your shooting and I could Jink without Sammael.
3. In a fast shooting army I'm not hugely concerned but it isn't bad.
4. With S4 so it isn't fabulous and any invuls shut it down completely.

I don't think he's worth 200 points really.

pm713 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
He's got EW and an AP2 Master Crafted Sword. That's pretty damn good stuff and when you incorporate the other Ravenwing benefits there's no reason to use another Company Master over him.

Sammael is really not worth it. The sword is bad and EW isn't amazing on T5. I agree the above price drop is over the top though.

If EW weren't amazing on T5, nobody would spam EW Chapter Masters on bikes and be content with the T5 + 6+++/IWND. He has:
1. EW with:
2. Rerolling Jink to tank shots
3. Hit And Run
4. 4 attacks at AP2 I5, which allows him to better hit squads while you throw someone else at possible challenges.

There's a TON of utility in what he brings. It's one of the only things I want from that codex.

1. I said it isn't amazing and it's not. This is different to not being good.
2. Jink kills your shooting and I could Jink without Sammael.
3. In a fast shooting army I'm not hugely concerned but it isn't bad.
4. With S4 so it isn't fabulous and any invuls shut it down completely.

I don't think he's worth 200 points really.

1. Fair enough.
2. You're hardly shooting. The Plasma Cannon is honestly just a bonus at that point when you're not.
3. I am very aggressive with Bikers in Vanilla Marines and I charge with them all the time. In a dedicated melee squad it is necessary.
4. Invulnerable Saves shut down any AP2. He's a character that you don't have challenge so he can go after other goobers effectively. Not that he's bad at challenges because of EW.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
He's got EW and an AP2 Master Crafted Sword. That's pretty damn good stuff and when you incorporate the other Ravenwing benefits there's no reason to use another Company Master over him.

Sammael is really not worth it. The sword is bad and EW isn't amazing on T5. I agree the above price drop is over the top though.

If EW weren't amazing on T5, nobody would spam EW Chapter Masters on bikes and be content with the T5 + 6+++/IWND. He has:
1. EW with:
2. Rerolling Jink to tank shots
3. Hit And Run
4. 4 attacks at AP2 I5, which allows him to better hit squads while you throw someone else at possible challenges.

There's a TON of utility in what he brings. It's one of the only things I want from that codex.

1. I said it isn't amazing and it's not. This is different to not being good.
2. Jink kills your shooting and I could Jink without Sammael.
3. In a fast shooting army I'm not hugely concerned but it isn't bad.
4. With S4 so it isn't fabulous and any invuls shut it down completely.

I don't think he's worth 200 points really.

1. Fair enough.
2. You're hardly shooting. The Plasma Cannon is honestly just a bonus at that point when you're not.
3. I am very aggressive with Bikers in Vanilla Marines and I charge with them all the time. In a dedicated melee squad it is necessary.
4. Invulnerable Saves shut down any AP2. He's a character that you don't have challenge so he can go after other goobers effectively. Not that he's bad at challenges because of EW.

1. I prefer having the plasma cannon shot to not having it.
2. That's you. I tend to shoot and only charge to tarpit or when I know I'll win.
3. Not really. A S8 AP2 weapon is better because it does more wounds and they matter more.

Storm bolters become salvo 2/4 or even 3/5
As well as additional armour plating terminator armour incorporates more powerful stimm injectors, coagulants etc which gives 4 or 5+ feel no pain
Give more heavy weapon choices, the multi melta could fit fluff wise especially if it ever gets blast back.
Ap3 on the heavy flamer?
That might sort tactical terminators?

Chainswords get ap4 plus an additional attack in combat, the chainsword is the main close combat weapon of the astartes, each of them has practised its use for decades, sometimes centuries, the skills learnt grant an additional attack
Assault Marines fixed? Add shred if not

Heavy bolters get upped to heavy 5, might then see them on the table in units that can take them, maybe a full on heavy bolter dev squad?

Tyranids.
Genestealers, Hermagaunts and Termagaunts.

1. Genestealers and all Gaunts unit type changes to Beasts.
2. Genestealers and Hermagaunts get Bounding Lope.

I'd love to add some actual saves as well but I think that's pushing it on melee units that can potentially cover 30' on the first turn.

Don't Hormagaunts already have the Bounding Lope rule?

Radu Lykan wrote:
Storm bolters become salvo 2/4 or even 3/5
As well as additional armour plating terminator armour incorporates more powerful stimm injectors, coagulants etc which gives 4 or 5+ feel no pain
Give more heavy weapon choices, the multi melta could fit fluff wise especially if it ever gets blast back.
Ap3 on the heavy flamer?
That might sort tactical terminators?

Chainswords get ap4 plus an additional attack in combat, the chainsword is the main close combat weapon of the astartes, each of them has practised its use for decades, sometimes centuries, the skills learnt grant an additional attack
Assault Marines fixed? Add shred if not

Heavy bolters get upped to heavy 5, might then see them on the table in units that can take them, maybe a full on heavy bolter dev squad?

It's its own thread.

pm713 wrote:
Don't Hormagaunts already have the Bounding Lope rule?

Hormagaunts, it's been so long since I bothered with the Tyranid codex I can't even remember how to spell their names...shameful...they have Bounding Leap - Gives them fleet which lets them re-roll runs and charges.
Bounding Lope is only found on Wulfen, lets them run and charge.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Don't Hormagaunts already have the Bounding Lope rule?

Hormagaunts, it's been so long since I bothered with the Tyranid codex I can't even remember how to spell their names...shameful...they have Bounding Leap - Gives them fleet which lets them re-roll runs and charges.
Bounding Lope is only found on Wulfen, lets them run and charge.

In my defence they're very similar names and I haven't looked at my Tyranid codex in months. There's something like three rules for run and charge now. Wulfen are such a mess for such a simple idea.