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 kronk wrote:

yellowfever wrote:
In my state you don't get out of the car unless told to. I know that differs between states though.

In the US, that's fairly uniform.

You stay in the car until told to get out.

And how would a deaf man know if the cop is telling him to get out of the car or not?

Perception of a higher threat level (LEO) when someone does something out of the ordinary. Guy got out his car and finger fumbling an explanation and LEO might perceive it as a attempt to chamber a round from 40 ft away. Color shirt mention?

 CptJake wrote:
News story: http://www.wcnc.com/news/crime/nchp-trooper-involved-in-deadly-shooting/301939728

I'll note the news folks say he was 'likely trying to communicate with sign language'.

Chase started on a highway, guy did not pull over. Exited highway and kept going. Pulled into his driveway and exited the car. Deaf or not, you probably want to pull over when the cops want you to do so. Sounds like there is dash and body cam footage so the investigation should be able to show what actually happened, and hopefully the NC State Troopers do the right thing.

I just checked through google maps, including using street view. I am assuming the chase was down State Highway 2828. The distance from the highway to the street the stop ended was ~3 miles of rural road, mostly 1 lane in each direction. Obviously he didn't hear the car behind him, being deaf. However, on a rural highway, he didn't notice the flashing lights for 3 miles? In the cops mind, this was a chase. Obviously, it is possible that the guy didn't notice.

Also, maybe he wanted to get home so that there would be someone the officer could talk to. Dunno. I can only speculate, there.

However, NONE of that should allow the cop to shoot him. Did the officer let his adrenaline get to him, thinking he was on a chase? Bad training? Stupid cop? I dunno. I've never chased anyone while wearing a lethal weapon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 kronk wrote:

yellowfever wrote:
In my state you don't get out of the car unless told to. I know that differs between states though.

In the US, that's fairly uniform.

You stay in the car until told to get out.

And how would a deaf man know if the cop is telling him to get out of the car or not?

I never said he did or he didn't. I am disagreeing/debating/discussing with yellowfever that it's fairly uniform to not get out of the car.

Don't confuse my clarifying/debating a point to defending the cop.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I'm getting sick to the back teeth of reading about these incidents. American police are an absolute fething disgrace from top to bottom. I said it before and I'll say it again; they really do deserve everything they get.

woooah dude. Are all Brits asshats with bad teeth and a garage full of tea? Might wanna slow that down a bit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jihadin wrote:
Perception of a higher threat level (LEO) when someone does something out of the ordinary. Guy got out his car and finger fumbling an explanation and LEO might perceive it as a attempt to chamber a round from 40 ft away. Color shirt mention?

I bet it was red?!

They should not allow the police to watch Naruto anymore... But this is really a damn shame, I feel bad for the family.

 redleger wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I'm getting sick to the back teeth of reading about these incidents. American police are an absolute fething disgrace from top to bottom. I said it before and I'll say it again; they really do deserve everything they get.

woooah dude. Are all Brits asshats with bad teeth and a garage full of tea? Might wanna slow that down a bit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jihadin wrote:
Perception of a higher threat level (LEO) when someone does something out of the ordinary. Guy got out his car and finger fumbling an explanation and LEO might perceive it as a attempt to chamber a round from 40 ft away. Color shirt mention?

I bet it was red?!

Why you feeding in to it?

Edit

Red SHirt?! He was suppose to die then. Everyone knows the original Suicide Squad was Security in the Federation

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I said it before and I'll say it again; they really do deserve everything they get.

And you're just as wrong now to paint with such a broad brush as you were then. Also, that was pretty classy to say that all cops deserve to get "everything they get", whatever that is.

Better overtime is not what I think you're implying.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Oh God...
That is just a new level of sadness. Clearly there is something fundamentally wrong with the US police.

I think Police in general the world over are equally as incompetent and stupid.

Here in the UK, we had a case a few days ago of a dangerous dog that was seized by police( it's owner was an idiot) because it was running around biting people.

Police said the dog was fine, then gave it back to the owner. The dog then killed somebody...

Don't get me wrong, this incident a tragedy, and the officers in question deserve jail time, but incompetence, stupidity, and dereliction of duty is not unique to the USA.

True, I could write endlessly about the horrible incompetence and stupidity of the russian police too (And make jokes: Why do russian policemen always operate in pairs? It is simple, it is because of specialisation. One knows how to write, the other how to read), but regardless, I don't think russian police has ever shot an unarmed deaf man during a traffic stop. That is just on an entirely different level of incompetence.

No they just gas a theater full of people to death instead

When they can kill unarmed people for little to no reason with impunity and do so repeatedly what else do you expect me to say?

 Ustrello wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Oh God...
That is just a new level of sadness. Clearly there is something fundamentally wrong with the US police.

I think Police in general the world over are equally as incompetent and stupid.

Here in the UK, we had a case a few days ago of a dangerous dog that was seized by police( it's owner was an idiot) because it was running around biting people.

Police said the dog was fine, then gave it back to the owner. The dog then killed somebody...

Don't get me wrong, this incident a tragedy, and the officers in question deserve jail time, but incompetence, stupidity, and dereliction of duty is not unique to the USA.

True, I could write endlessly about the horrible incompetence and stupidity of the russian police too (And make jokes: Why do russian policemen always operate in pairs? It is simple, it is because of specialisation. One knows how to write, the other how to read), but regardless, I don't think russian police has ever shot an unarmed deaf man during a traffic stop. That is just on an entirely different level of incompetence.

No they just gas a theater full of people to death instead

The chemical agent they use to incapacitate them was the factor right? We're talking about that school right? In Russia?

 Ustrello wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Oh God...
That is just a new level of sadness. Clearly there is something fundamentally wrong with the US police.

I think Police in general the world over are equally as incompetent and stupid.

Here in the UK, we had a case a few days ago of a dangerous dog that was seized by police( it's owner was an idiot) because it was running around biting people.

Police said the dog was fine, then gave it back to the owner. The dog then killed somebody...

Don't get me wrong, this incident a tragedy, and the officers in question deserve jail time, but incompetence, stupidity, and dereliction of duty is not unique to the USA.

True, I could write endlessly about the horrible incompetence and stupidity of the russian police too (And make jokes: Why do russian policemen always operate in pairs? It is simple, it is because of specialisation. One knows how to write, the other how to read), but regardless, I don't think russian police has ever shot an unarmed deaf man during a traffic stop. That is just on an entirely different level of incompetence.

No they just gas a theater full of people to death instead

This one?

 Future War Cultist wrote:
When they can kill unarmed people for little to no reason with impunity and do so repeatedly what else do you expect me to say?

Your new to Dakka OT eh

Jihadin is right. How can I even.... I can't I just can't.

Please use your critical thinking skills.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
When they can kill unarmed people for little to no reason with impunity and do so repeatedly what else do you expect me to say?

Maybe focus on the bad actors and not the entirety of the US police. Maybe that is slightly more reasonable than saying they should all be killed?

A man who is silent can be assumed to be intelligent. I man who talks out of his ass has breath that stinks.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
When they can kill unarmed people for little to no reason with impunity and do so repeatedly what else do you expect me to say?

I expect you to post thoughtfully, in a way that contributes to the conversation, rather than derailing it with what looks like obvious trolling.

But that's just me.

My emotions got the better of me there. But you understand where I'm coming from right? Come on, enough is enough. How many more people being shot dead for little to no reason is it going to take before change is brought in?

 LordofHats wrote:
One has to wonder how many people need to die in situations that makes one contemplate if police officers are being trained at all before the faithful abandon the thinly veiled veneer that nothing is wrong.

Rest assured they are being trained. The question is what are they being trained to do?

Sadly, the answer is to have a warrior or "Bullet-Proof" mindset.

http://events.r20.constantcontact.com/register/event?llr=vlnbpzcab&oeidk=a07e5pyl9st01b77d7c

 Future War Cultist wrote:
My emotions got the better of me there. But you understand where I'm coming from right? Come on, enough is enough. How many more people being shot dead for little to no reason is it going to take before change is brought in?

That is a more thoughtful statement, and one I can agree with.

I'm all for sweeping changes in how police officers are trained to handle high adrenaline circumstances like car chases, foot pursuits, etc.

Ya i never said the shoot was justified. Just pointing out a small part of the incident. Several little things can turn into one big thing. I've seen it happen multiple times working on the border.

Same. Some guy fumbling for something with dark clothes on makes me tend to look at them differently. Though I have to wait for that individual to take specific actions before we engage.

 Jihadin wrote:
Same. Some guy fumbling for something with dark clothes on makes me tend to look at them differently. Though I have to wait for that individual to take specific actions before we engage.

Yea but thats different. I don't think he was wearing a man dress and rolling around in a 1980's toyota.

Hopefully we'll get to see video soon. It certainly doesnt sound like a shoot that would be justified by a CHL holder, in which case it shouldnt be justified for a cop, but that rarely seems to make a difference.

 kronk wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Oh God...
That is just a new level of sadness. Clearly there is something fundamentally wrong with the US police.

I think Police in general the world over are equally as incompetent and stupid.

Here in the UK, we had a case a few days ago of a dangerous dog that was seized by police( it's owner was an idiot) because it was running around biting people.

Police said the dog was fine, then gave it back to the owner. The dog then killed somebody...

Don't get me wrong, this incident a tragedy, and the officers in question deserve jail time, but incompetence, stupidity, and dereliction of duty is not unique to the USA.

True, I could write endlessly about the horrible incompetence and stupidity of the russian police too (And make jokes: Why do russian policemen always operate in pairs? It is simple, it is because of specialisation. One knows how to write, the other how to read), but regardless, I don't think russian police has ever shot an unarmed deaf man during a traffic stop. That is just on an entirely different level of incompetence.

No they just gas a theater full of people to death instead

This one?

I want to know why they used pictures of very obviously not Russian dudes for this picture...

Those patches look very Russian..

@Red

Aye I know. You figure that LEO has the same ROE as we did. Though if we implement a ROE on LEO's would that be misconstrued as making the LEO agencies more Military

 kronk wrote:
I just checked through google maps, including using street view. I am assuming the chase was down State Highway 2828. The distance from the highway to the street the stop ended was ~3 miles of rural road, mostly 1 lane in each direction. Obviously he didn't hear the car behind him, being deaf. However, on a rural highway, he didn't notice the flashing lights for 3 miles? In the cops mind, this was a chase. Obviously, it is possible that the guy didn't notice.

Maybe he was busy playing Pokemon Go? 'Cause you know roads and police be damned when you gotta catch them all.

 kronk wrote:

yellowfever wrote:
In my state you don't get out of the car unless told to. I know that differs between states though.

In the US, that's fairly uniform.

You stay in the car until told to get out.

You also don't refuse to pull over for 7 or so miles like this guy did.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kronk wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
News story: http://www.wcnc.com/news/crime/nchp-trooper-involved-in-deadly-shooting/301939728

I'll note the news folks say he was 'likely trying to communicate with sign language'.

Chase started on a highway, guy did not pull over. Exited highway and kept going. Pulled into his driveway and exited the car. Deaf or not, you probably want to pull over when the cops want you to do so. Sounds like there is dash and body cam footage so the investigation should be able to show what actually happened, and hopefully the NC State Troopers do the right thing.

I just checked through google maps, including using street view. I am assuming the chase was down State Highway 2828. The distance from the highway to the street the stop ended was ~3 miles of rural road, mostly 1 lane in each direction. Obviously he didn't hear the car behind him, being deaf. However, on a rural highway, he didn't notice the flashing lights for 3 miles? In the cops mind, this was a chase. Obviously, it is possible that the guy didn't notice.

Also, maybe he wanted to get home so that there would be someone the officer could talk to. Dunno. I can only speculate, there.

However, NONE of that should allow the cop to shoot him. Did the officer let his adrenaline get to him, thinking he was on a chase? Bad training? Stupid cop? I dunno. I've never chased anyone while wearing a lethal weapon..

Chase stated on hwy 485 and one article I read said it was about 7 miles. He had to have exited the highway and made several more turns. You would think, especially being deaf, he would visually clear all around his vehicle before making those turns. I find it hard to believe he did not notice flashing lights, assuming the cop had them on.

Again, I'll wait for the dash cam and body cam footage. I suspect there is more to this than we know right now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ustrello wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
News story: http://www.wcnc.com/news/crime/nchp-trooper-involved-in-deadly-shooting/301939728

I'll note the news folks say he was 'likely trying to communicate with sign language'.

Chase started on a highway, guy did not pull over. Exited highway and kept going. Pulled into his driveway and exited the car. Deaf or not, you probably want to pull over when the cops want you to do so. Sounds like there is dash and body cam footage so the investigation should be able to show what actually happened, and hopefully the NC State Troopers do the right thing.

It won't be the first time a guy lead the cops on a chase and then got shot... Harris seems to have been convicted of resisting an officer before ( http://heavy.com/news/2016/08/daniel-kevin-harris-k-charlotte-north-carolina-police-shooting-hearing-speech-impaired-deaf-mute-sign-language-jermaine-saunders-killed-trooper-patrol/ ). The videos will hopefully put this to rest one way or another.

Well that didn't take long

Besides the smart ass comment, care to dispute what I wrote?

 CptJake wrote:

 kronk wrote:

yellowfever wrote:
In my state you don't get out of the car unless told to. I know that differs between states though.

In the US, that's fairly uniform.

You stay in the car until told to get out.

You also don't refuse to pull over for 7 or so miles like this guy did.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kronk wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
News story: http://www.wcnc.com/news/crime/nchp-trooper-involved-in-deadly-shooting/301939728

I'll note the news folks say he was 'likely trying to communicate with sign language'.

Chase started on a highway, guy did not pull over. Exited highway and kept going. Pulled into his driveway and exited the car. Deaf or not, you probably want to pull over when the cops want you to do so. Sounds like there is dash and body cam footage so the investigation should be able to show what actually happened, and hopefully the NC State Troopers do the right thing.

I just checked through google maps, including using street view. I am assuming the chase was down State Highway 2828. The distance from the highway to the street the stop ended was ~3 miles of rural road, mostly 1 lane in each direction. Obviously he didn't hear the car behind him, being deaf. However, on a rural highway, he didn't notice the flashing lights for 3 miles? In the cops mind, this was a chase. Obviously, it is possible that the guy didn't notice.

Also, maybe he wanted to get home so that there would be someone the officer could talk to. Dunno. I can only speculate, there.

However, NONE of that should allow the cop to shoot him. Did the officer let his adrenaline get to him, thinking he was on a chase? Bad training? Stupid cop? I dunno. I've never chased anyone while wearing a lethal weapon..

Chase stated on hwy 485 and one article I read said it was about 7 miles. He had to have exited the highway and made several more turns. You would think, especially being deaf, he would visually clear all around his vehicle before making those turns. I find it hard to believe he did not notice flashing lights, assuming the cop had them on.

Again, I'll wait for the dash cam and body cam footage. I suspect there is more to this than we know right now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ustrello wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
News story: http://www.wcnc.com/news/crime/nchp-trooper-involved-in-deadly-shooting/301939728

I'll note the news folks say he was 'likely trying to communicate with sign language'.

Chase started on a highway, guy did not pull over. Exited highway and kept going. Pulled into his driveway and exited the car. Deaf or not, you probably want to pull over when the cops want you to do so. Sounds like there is dash and body cam footage so the investigation should be able to show what actually happened, and hopefully the NC State Troopers do the right thing.

It won't be the first time a guy lead the cops on a chase and then got shot... Harris seems to have been convicted of resisting an officer before ( http://heavy.com/news/2016/08/daniel-kevin-harris-k-charlotte-north-carolina-police-shooting-hearing-speech-impaired-deaf-mute-sign-language-jermaine-saunders-killed-trooper-patrol/ ). The videos will hopefully put this to rest one way or another.

Well that didn't take long

Besides the smart ass comment, care to dispute what I wrote?

Well you did pull a whembly and cherry picked a headline without actually reading it

found not guilty of misdemeanor larceny and had a charge of misdemeanor resisting property recovery dismissed

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I'm getting sick to the back teeth of reading about these incidents. American police are an absolute fething disgrace from top to bottom. I said it before and I'll say it again; they really do deserve everything they get.

No they don't, because when some nutcase shoots cops in revenge it happens in Dallas or New York, miles from the jurisdiction that committed these blunders. More innocent people die, more families re ruined.
It wouldn't be better even if the revenge killings targeted the 'right' cops.

The solution to abuse of firearms is not more gun crime.

 kronk wrote:

Also, maybe he wanted to get home so that there would be someone the officer could talk to. Dunno. I can only speculate, there.

However, NONE of that should allow the cop to shoot him. Did the officer let his adrenaline get to him, thinking he was on a chase? Bad training? Stupid cop? I dunno. I've never chased anyone while wearing a lethal weapon.

Entirely possible, maybe he tried signalling to the cop to follow him. He may have been advised to get to a safe stopping place or figured he'd be best driving a couple of miles to get a translator (but the article said his family were also mute).

Here, we're advised not to pull over for the police where you don't feel safe, and can drive on to a service station or forecourt or something. That's more for the risk of cop impersonators though, rather than being shot for a traffic violation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
There's definitely more to it though, the new article implies that there was a collision and that the cop car was smoking. Has the cop run into him in an attempt to stop and the victim assumed he's being rammed, then driven home in a panic?

Did the cop car have it's light on and could he see them?

Are cops trained how to identify mutes or sign language?

What's sign language for "don't shoot"?

 CptJake wrote:
You also don't refuse to pull over for 7 or so miles like this guy did.

You also don't refuse to pull over for 7 or so miles like this guy did.

And that warrants being shot dead does it?