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 JNAProductions wrote:

 gossipmeng wrote:
You should also look into approaching banks to see if they will even give you a loan to start the business. Also inquire into how much it would cost to rent out a potential property - that's one of your largest expenses.

Well, as it stands, I'd want to start right now as a solely online business, so rent will not be an issue.

How do you think online stores actually work? If someone goes to your store to buy a knight titan, where does it come from? Are you just going to give up X% of your living space for inventory (in which case, you're not going to have much inventory)? What complications entail from declaring your living space a place of business. Do distributors have issue delivering to a home location instead of a business?

 Peregrine wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Well, as it stands, I'd want to start right now as a solely online business, so rent will not be an issue.

Then you don't understand what is required to run a business. An online business has to pay rent because you need somewhere to keep all of your inventory. You can save money on rent because you don't need to rent a space in a high-traffic area where customers want to go, but you still need space. You aren't going to run a business out of your garage unless you're selling so few items that you don't make any money.

Also, if you're starting an online store you are going to fail and lose money, period. There is nothing you can do to make yourself more appealing than the existing online stores, and that means nobody is going to buy from you. If starting an offline store is a risky decision starting an online-only store is equivalent to setting a pile of money on fire.

Pretty much this...

To run a succesful webshop you need a large inventory. And that, in turn, requires lots of space.

Also, you need to consider that certain companies * cough* Games Workshop * cough *aren't overly happy to deal with online-only shops and will give you a hard time.

Consider the following:

How much space will you need for the minimum inventory needed? Keep in mind that many companies require you to order a minimum number of products before they're willing to sell to you.
Where can you get the needed space? And how will you pay for that space?
How will you pay for the initial outlays? Not just the products themselves, but also down payment of storage space, domain, webshop, shelves, packaging material, inventory control software, etc.?
How will you ensure that you have the time needed to pack the orders, get them shipped on time, do semi-annual stock counts (trust me, they take way more time than you think), constantly update the webshop, order new products, talk with your contacts within the various companies, etc.?

There are a LOT of questions you need to answer before starting a business like this. And you need to always keep in mind that you're getting yourself involved in a business that even seasoned store-owners find hard to survive in. The competition is fierce, the hours are long, and the payoff is very small.

f2k wrote:
[
Also, you need to consider that certain companies * cough* Games Workshop * cough *aren't overly happy to deal with online-only shops and will give you a hard time.

No longer just Games Workshop, but Privateer Press and Asomdi/Final Fantasy Games. They are taking a page from GW and online retalilers will be having a hard time, let alone someone who is starting.

Are you going to advertise? How are we going to find your store? How much are you going to carry? Who is going to make your website? How can I trust you with my Credit Card information, let alone where I live and private information? These I haven't seen mentioned yet.

Have you considered doing a part time shop where you run events at cons and have a stand? Do that for a while and see if you like, learn what you can, then think about a full-time online or physical store.

Start organising a club in your local club in a community hall, and do that for a while. If it goes really well maybe by some boxes to sell to new comers (if it goes really well!).

This might give you an idea of the skills you need to attract people.

Running a store is a whole other business though.

Maybe try renting space in another store.
Being in the US, I assume stores can be pretty big, and helping out a local store having trouble paying the rent may be just the leg up you need.
Ask around. Is there a local 'guild of shopkeepers'? I know of the local ones as the 'Chamber of Commerce', or similar.

 Wehrkind wrote:

I ask because if you are, it isn't a great time to start a store, but it is a good time to make friends and acquaintances who might be good future partners on projects.

I have many good friends and acquaintances, as well as being close to several family members.

There isn't a one among them that I would enter a business partnership with.

If you are your own man/woman, you make all of the decisions. Once you split the responsibilities, you have to share in decision making, workload, etc.

Also, never get money involved with family, friends, or neighbors. Never.

 kronk wrote:
Also, never get money involved with family, friends, or neighbors. Never.

One of the beast things ever said.

 kronk wrote:

 Wehrkind wrote:

I ask because if you are, it isn't a great time to start a store, but it is a good time to make friends and acquaintances who might be good future partners on projects.

I have many good friends and acquaintances, as well as being close to several family members.

There isn't a one among them that I would enter a business partnership with.

If you are your own man/woman, you make all of the decisions. Once you split the responsibilities, you have to share in decision making, workload, etc.

Also, never get money involved with family, friends, or neighbors. Never.

I might not have been clear, but that should be read as "make [friends and acquaintances] with the feature [might be good future partners]".

If you are in college and not using it as networking, you are missing opportunities. You get to see how people work (do they go to class? do homework? do extra work?), how they behave (drinking problem? treat people they don't consider important like crap?) and what their interests are. You also have an unusually good opportunity to meet people with very different skill sets.

I am not suggesting that you start with your existing friends and randomly pick business partners. I am saying actively look to meet people with an eye towards who might make a good partner, develop those relationships, then observe them over time. Many businesses start as partnerships. Most businesses fail. There does not seem to be a strong correlation between failing and starting as a partnership if you look at the successes, however.

Just don't pick random buddies who want to quit their job and start their own business. Far too many people think that working for yourself is less work than working for someone else. Exactly the opposite is true: you will work much harder and for much less money.

Edit: As a side note, if you do partner with someone, or just hire them to work for you, it had better be someone you can be friendly with. Having you own business means working 60-100 hours a week on it. If you don't at least get along with the other people, you are all going to be miserable, and miserable costs money. You need to like to spend time working and talking with the people you are in business with. Most small companies hire for "cultural fit" (do we like you, and will you like us) as much as anything else, and larger companies are increasingly doing the same, because people who can't get along don't work well together either.

 Chute82 wrote:
US gov Small business Admin is what you should look into lots of information you might want to look at

https://www.sba.gov

In addition, some other great sources of information are....

-Local Chamber of Commerce
-Local small business incubators/start-ups
-Local Initiative Funds
-U.S. census Bureau for Demographic information

The first step is to build a strong business plan, and the SBA site has a good program for doing that. then take it to a banker, Chamber member, or other serious professional for review.

That is step 1. You can build a good one in about 8 hours IF you have the information handy.

Edit; Regarding partnerships. Avoid them unless you have a lawyer go over air-tight contracts and ownership documents, and whatever you do DO NOT be a sole proprietorship. Instead, use a LLC or C-corp to get started. However talk to your accountant and attorney before settling on your business structure.


Double Edit: Before I opened my business (Not a game store) I received the following advice:

If you are going to start a business be ready to lose these three things:
1. Your money
2. Your friends
3. Your family

Is it still worth it to you? If yes, Proceeed.

I had been through this a few times looking into a few business plans with my wife when she was getting her MBA.

Research Phase:
- What is your target market? Who are the people you plan to sell things/services to? (hobbiests, collectable cards?, wargaming? models?)
- What market-share would you have in the area you plan to have your business? Any means of finding out the population of that demographic? (local government agencies may help with this).
- What are "special needs" that your chosen customers have? (for most women store must be well lit and clean, near bus route for those without cars, a space to play in).
- What would you offer different than other competing businesses in the area? (Visit their stores. What would you do different? What do they need to be better?).
- Look-up supplier locations for the product you wish to sell. Get in touch with them and investigate their business transaction requirements, investigate if they are reputable and consistent.
- See what areas to establish a business are available. Is the location helpful? (Near bus route, near schools).
- Could a good synergy be made? (Near pizza place, movie theatre, arena....).
- Establish #1 thru to #10 of available locations and get rent / buy cost, find out tax rate there, has heater, air-conditioning, washrooms? General cost of utilities?
- Look into insurance for the business and licensing and the zoning laws for the above possible locations.
- Got the snappy name for your business? Going to register it? Going to incorporate or LLC so your own personal money is separate from the business?

Okay that above is just to get an IDEA if it is doable.

Now the bit of figuring out how you make money to stay in business:

- At some point you will have to figure out getting the space so it is usable for display and inventory control.
- Then talk to your suppliers on how much product costs.
- Take a wild stab at figuring out how much stock can be sold and determine how much mark-up you need to stay in business.
- WHAT ELSE ARE YOU OFFERING? Food and snacks? Rental storage on-site? Magic night with a registration fee? Any hobby skills you can teach or hold courses? Have an arcade game or two to suck up some money.

Advertising, this will make or break you:

- Location: any possibility of street traffic?
- How much for the pretty sign on the store? Got anyone to design the catchy logo?
- Any local stores (you are not in competition with) that would be willing for you to post stuff with them? And you have their product in your store on occasion? Embed in the community, network.
- Offer specific deals / special events for groups... your local library, anyone with a card from there... hold the occasional events at the Legion for charity and some military armor models or something.
- Offer free MTG common cards at the local school for an MTG club there, offer to teach some games.
- Start up your web-page / Facebook group, whatever it takes.
- Post events, releases "come meet us!!" whatever works.
- Talk to city hall and their business groups, see what is going on and how you can be involved.

I swear, the local new coffee shop has two floors, makes amazing coffee, displays art of local artists for sale, runs yoga and dance upstairs (as well as bridal showers, concerts...), has a monthly crafts sale, has the local chocolate shop make coffee bean chocolates from their store, they run a stall at the farmer's market on the weekend.
I would have a gaming coffee shop almost exactly like how this guy does things, he makes a fortune.
Set an area aside like a lounge so the parents can hang-out while waiting for their kids... maybe get them interested in gaming crack.

You know another way to differentiate yourself?
Look at karate clubs.
Do school pickup for your MTG club or whatever, hold workshops, have the parents kick-in a little more and have them build stuff or learn how to build a deck.

This is not even being detailed.
It blows my mind.

Make a GOOD plan, you need money, you need to convince someone it is not going down the drain if they invest in you.

 Talizvar wrote:
I had been through this a few times looking into a few business plans with my wife when she was getting her MBA.
- Offer free MTG common cards at the local school for an MTG club there, offer to teach some games.

this might be an issue with many schools here in the US.

Asterios wrote:

 Talizvar wrote:
I had been through this a few times looking into a few business plans with my wife when she was getting her MBA.
- Offer free MTG common cards at the local school for an MTG club there, offer to teach some games.

this might be an issue with many schools here in the US.

I offered that idea because the local store here donated a bunch of extras to the local school.
I think it boils down to being part of the community and a background check sure helps.
Also I think they arranged this through some lunchtime social / gaming club, not something where you present to a class.
Though with how MTG is as an addictive game, it seems like letting the local drug dealer hand-out free samples at the school...

I think that maybe you will get some more helpful replies if you talk a little bit more about exactly what your plan is, why you want to open a store, your relevant experience in the industry, what you want to sell, etc etc instead of just the vague idea of opening a hobby store, as that could mean a lot of different things.

If your profile is accurate and you are 19 years old then the best advice posted here is to probably not go down this road. The most valuable stuff you can learn about how to run a business is either by taking a course in the subject at a college or trade school, or by getting a job in a retail store and learning the ropes. You're going to have to have at least a few employees if you want to open a store, and people are probably not going to want to work for you if they have to teach you jobs that you should be capable of supervising. To get to this point you're going to want experience in some type of management position to rely on. Another thing to consider is you're also going to want to know your product really well. There has to be a reason for a client to go to you to buy a product, and your knowledge of that product is going to be at or near the top of that list. There's going to be a lot, and I mean a lot, of people that have been playing Warhammer or MTG or Settlers of Catan or whatever else you're going to be selling since before you were even alive and there's probably no way you're going to be able to have more knowledge than these people. And this is just aside from all the economic and logistic reasons that everybody has listed in this thread, the day-to-day operation of the store is just as important as money and space, and that includes web operations. Opening a business within a year when you've only just started to research it now and don't have a plan is completely unrealistic and probably the same as taking your savings and throwing it all into one pull on the slot machine. There's a really really really good chance you're going to lose it and damage your finances and credit for years to come which will hinder your chances of starting a business in the future.

Less discouragingly, if you're serious about this and it's something you really want to do, then the best route to take is to start looking into business courses or similar programs, get a part time job at a store similar to one you want to own or at least something in retail while you study, play as many games and get involved in as many hobbies as you possibly can to learn as much as you can about what you want to sell, and look at similar stores and think about what makes them successful. All this is also going to enable you to meet a lot of people that play the stuff you're going to sell so that when you do open a store, you'll already have worked on a clientele, and make business connections that will help you out once you're actually going to be opening. These stores DO exist and new ones DO open and succeed, and there's no reason YOU can't do it, but you need a great plan, a lot of knowledge, a lot of experience, and good connections to make it all work and not end up bankrupt and burnt out.

Or maybe you're rich and money is no obstacle, in which case I'm real jealous!

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

One of the most successful hobby stores out here is a big diverse store as well.... but they're owned by one of the biggest hobby distributors in the country so they tend to get stock before other stores and manage to sell for less than other stores (I've discussed with other hobby store owners who have said they'd be out of business in a month if they tried to price match because the margins would be too slim).

Good Games?

 Azazelx wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

One of the most successful hobby stores out here is a big diverse store as well.... but they're owned by one of the biggest hobby distributors in the country so they tend to get stock before other stores and manage to sell for less than other stores (I've discussed with other hobby store owners who have said they'd be out of business in a month if they tried to price match because the margins would be too slim).

Good Games?

Nah I was thinking of a general hobby store rather than FLGS, Metro Hobbies, which I've been told by other store owners is owned by one of the bigger hobby distributors.

They manage to have a huge range of aircraft, tanks, ships, trains, RC, toys, paints, tools, etc and get kits from manufacturers that other stores mention being hard to source and keep in stock, and they are often the cheapest option, if not the cheapest then at least competitive.

 toothgrinder wrote:

If your profile is accurate and you are 19 years old then the best advice posted here is to probably not go down this road. The most valuable stuff you can learn about how to run a business is either by taking a course in the subject at a college or trade school, or by getting a job in a retail store and learning the ropes.

Nah. Those things sound fine, and to each their own, but I own a successful small business and focus on the experiences of entrepreneurs. Less than 20% of small business owners have any kind of background in business before they start their company.

There's a good book called E-Myth, which talks about that moment where you see how you could make a business out of an idea, and what it takes to make it happen. In my experience, that sums up starting a business more than anything else.

 toothgrinder wrote:

You're going to have to have at least a few employees if you want to open a store, and people are probably not going to want to work for you if they have to teach you jobs that you should be capable of supervising.

Or you could just work hard like other small business owners do, and not worry about the overhead of employees for a few years.

Don't actually hire employees. Hire contractors at first, to stay out of federal and local taxes. When you do take on employees, go with a PEO like Trinet. Very affordable way to handle taxes that lets you focus on your core business.

Also, learn what EBITDA is at an early stage, or at least have an appreciation for operational cash flow. That's probably the most important business concept you need to know about to run a business like this.

 toothgrinder wrote:

To get to this point you're going to want experience in some type of management position to rely on. Another thing to consider is you're also going to want to know your product really well. There has to be a reason for a client to go to you to buy a product, and your knowledge of that product is going to be at or near the top of that list. There's going to be a lot, and I mean a lot, of people that have been playing Warhammer or MTG or Settlers of Catan or whatever else you're going to be selling since before you were even alive and there's probably no way you're going to be able to have more knowledge than these people.

Or, forget about learning much about the product yourself, and do what the FLGS near me did. Offer serious discounts to veteran gamers willing to volunteer at the store and share their knowledge. Allow them to organize the store calendar and use social media to test the effectiveness of ideas. Build a culture others would be envious of and use that to attract customers.

Over the last 10 years, off an on, I have been "volunteering" at a friend's FLGS. This means I have run the cash register, answered stupid questions about rules / fluff, and organized tournaments. He could count on me 1 - 2 nights a week, along with a group of 10 other people. Niche businesses like gaming stores, comic book shops, and the like always do better when they have no payroll.

 toothgrinder wrote:

And this is just aside from all the economic and logistic reasons that everybody has listed in this thread, the day-to-day operation of the store is just as important as money and space, and that includes web operations. Opening a business within a year when you've only just started to research it now and don't have a plan is completely unrealistic and probably the same as taking your savings and throwing it all into one pull on the slot machine.

Totally overstated. I have bootstrapped 7 businesses over the years and never once written a business plan. Current company does around $1.2 mil in revenue annually.

Find your customer and figure out how to get them to buy from you. That is all business is.

 toothgrinder wrote:

There's a really really really good chance you're going to lose it and damage your finances and credit for years to come which will hinder your chances of starting a business in the future.

Yeah, if you start a small business, expect your credit to get screwed up. It doesn't really matter, because your businesses credit is not your own, and there are situations where being financially disadvantaged benefits you. Not saying it's a good idea to screw up your own credit, but it's not a bad thing as long as you have an LLC or C-Corp to run expenses through.

 toothgrinder wrote:

Less discouragingly, if you're serious about this and it's something you really want to do, then the best route to take is to start looking into business courses or similar programs, get a part time job at a store similar to one you want to own or at least something in retail while you study, play as many games and get involved in as many hobbies as you possibly can to learn as much as you can about what you want to sell, and look at similar stores and think about what makes them successful.

Do not do any of this. Big waste of time.

 toothgrinder wrote:

All this is also going to enable you to meet a lot of people that play the stuff you're going to sell so that when you do open a store, you'll already have worked on a clientele, and make business connections that will help you out once you're actually going to be opening. These stores DO exist and new ones DO open and succeed, and there's no reason YOU can't do it, but you need a great plan, a lot of knowledge, a lot of experience, and good connections to make it all work and not end up bankrupt and burnt out.

Knowing your customers and having a great culture is better than any amount of planning.

I know people who have gone the business plan route. They throw out their business plan within 12 months because nothing goes to plan in the real world.

Seriously, the worst thing that can happen if you open a business and it fails is you end up a little bit wiser. Make sure you are starting it as an LLC or some form of corporation so your personal assets are protected. Get a partner if you need to, I know guys who give them moms a small stake and have her over for an annual meeting at Thanksgiving. All this talk about going bankrupt is meant to scare you, and the people saying it have never operated a business.

 toothgrinder wrote:

Or maybe you're rich and money is no obstacle, in which case I'm real jealous!

You don't actually need assets to form a business, but you would need cash for stock. Or maybe you can get various gaming companies to drop-ship for you, I really don't know the arrangements. I would figure out what kinds of games / minis you plan to sell and get in touch with the companies to figure out what kinds of arrangements they are willing to offer.

But, even if it's a deal where you need to pay cash up front to purchase stock to sell through your webstore, that's not the hardest thing to handle. You can do this.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 toothgrinder wrote:

You're going to have to have at least a few employees if you want to open a store, and people are probably not going to want to work for you if they have to teach you jobs that you should be capable of supervising.

Or you could just work hard like other small business owners do, and not worry about the overhead of employees for a few years.

Don't actually hire employees. Hire contractors at first, to stay out of federal and local taxes. When you do take on employees, go with a PEO like Trinet. Very affordable way to handle taxes that lets you focus on your core business.

Also, learn what EBITDA is at an early stage, or at least have an appreciation for operational cash flow. That's probably the most important business concept you need to know about to run a business like this.

I can see where you're coming from with contractors. And yet, I would strongly recommend NOT going down that path.

Firstly, from an ethical standpoint, you need to take care of those working for you. Don't treat them as disposable assets to be hired and fired at will.

Secondly, from a more practical standpoint, you need a small core of dedicated workers you can trust and rely upon. And you won't get that with contractors.

To give you an example, the company where I work recently had a minor crisis as two contractors left on very short notice. Problem was that they were from the same department, working together on the same job. So now we're suddenly two men short, had no-one to do that particular job, and no time to hire and train replacements.

So in the end one of them was talked into staying a bit longer and another contractor was pulled from a different department and given a crash course in how to do that particular job. So now you suddenly have two departments working shorthanded, and one staffed with a guy having had only a few days training...

That, for all intents and purposes, is a very bad situation to be in.

Yes, hiring contractors is easier in some respects. But it might come back to bite you later on. After all, contractors need not have any feelings of loyalty or duty and can leave you shorthanded at the most inopportune moments.

Take care of your employees and they'll go that extra mile for you when needed.

Of course, it might be years before you work up enough business and surplus to actually hire anyone. And until then, you're all on your own.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 toothgrinder wrote:

If your profile is accurate and you are 19 years old then the best advice posted here is to probably not go down this road. The most valuable stuff you can learn about how to run a business is either by taking a course in the subject at a college or trade school, or by getting a job in a retail store and learning the ropes.

Nah. Those things sound fine, and to each their own, but I own a successful small business and focus on the experiences of entrepreneurs. Less than 20% of small business owners have any kind of background in business before they start their company.

There's a good book called E-Myth, which talks about that moment where you see how you could make a business out of an idea, and what it takes to make it happen. In my experience, that sums up starting a business more than anything else.

but is your business a niche business of a niche hobby? where competition is fierce? furthermore with the economy going the way it is, it is becoming tougher for small businesses to stay in business.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 toothgrinder wrote:

You're going to have to have at least a few employees if you want to open a store, and people are probably not going to want to work for you if they have to teach you jobs that you should be capable of supervising.

Or you could just work hard like other small business owners do, and not worry about the overhead of employees for a few years.

Don't actually hire employees. Hire contractors at first, to stay out of federal and local taxes. When you do take on employees, go with a PEO like Trinet. Very affordable way to handle taxes that lets you focus on your core business.

Also, learn what EBITDA is at an early stage, or at least have an appreciation for operational cash flow. That's probably the most important business concept you need to know about to run a business like this.

hiring contractors used to be the go to for some places, but not anymore especially in states like California where they have closed a lot of the contract employee loopholes where now even contract employees have to be offered medical, paid time off for sick leave and so forth.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 toothgrinder wrote:

To get to this point you're going to want experience in some type of management position to rely on. Another thing to consider is you're also going to want to know your product really well. There has to be a reason for a client to go to you to buy a product, and your knowledge of that product is going to be at or near the top of that list. There's going to be a lot, and I mean a lot, of people that have been playing Warhammer or MTG or Settlers of Catan or whatever else you're going to be selling since before you were even alive and there's probably no way you're going to be able to have more knowledge than these people.

Or, forget about learning much about the product yourself, and do what the FLGS near me did. Offer serious discounts to veteran gamers willing to volunteer at the store and share their knowledge. Allow them to organize the store calendar and use social media to test the effectiveness of ideas. Build a culture others would be envious of and use that to attract customers.

Over the last 10 years, off an on, I have been "volunteering" at a friend's FLGS. This means I have run the cash register, answered stupid questions about rules / fluff, and organized tournaments. He could count on me 1 - 2 nights a week, along with a group of 10 other people. Niche businesses like gaming stores, comic book shops, and the like always do better when they have no payroll.

most people have a tendency of avoiding game stores where the owner does not have a clue about gaming in general, furthermore relying on so called "experts" could also lead to other issues and get you in a bind. furthermore "employees" like that would be considered "Contract" employees which goes back to the previous answer. his only options would be run the store himself, or hire 1-2 employees so he has a break, right now there is several game/comic stores in my town that are ran solo or father/son teams, one store did have a contract employee but continues that practice under the table until caught.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 toothgrinder wrote:

And this is just aside from all the economic and logistic reasons that everybody has listed in this thread, the day-to-day operation of the store is just as important as money and space, and that includes web operations. Opening a business within a year when you've only just started to research it now and don't have a plan is completely unrealistic and probably the same as taking your savings and throwing it all into one pull on the slot machine.

Totally overstated. I have bootstrapped 7 businesses over the years and never once written a business plan. Current company does around $1.2 mil in revenue annually.

Find your customer and figure out how to get them to buy from you. That is all business is.

so that means you had 6 failures? too many for me, me myself I have run 2 small business ventures, but ran them side by side one was on weekdays and other on the weekends, the one on the weekdays even got a brief blurb about in a fluff piece in the Wall Street Journal.

the problem is that last part is where he will be hurt, usually the only chance of picking up customers is when another store closes up and if he happens to be in the right location at the right time.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 toothgrinder wrote:

There's a really really really good chance you're going to lose it and damage your finances and credit for years to come which will hinder your chances of starting a business in the future.

Yeah, if you start a small business, expect your credit to get screwed up. It doesn't really matter, because your businesses credit is not your own, and there are situations where being financially disadvantaged benefits you. Not saying it's a good idea to screw up your own credit, but it's not a bad thing as long as you have an LLC or C-Corp to run expenses through.

problem is you say you are knowledgeable about business, yet forget that when starting up a business for the first time it is built upon your credit, when you go for loans to start it up it is your credit it is on, not a business that does not exist, furthermore LLC's would not work in this type of situation unless you are making a product, when it comes to ordering product you are not getting it on a dropship or loan you have to pay cash up front. that is how it is always done and will always be done when it comes to such a business.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 toothgrinder wrote:

Less discouragingly, if you're serious about this and it's something you really want to do, then the best route to take is to start looking into business courses or similar programs, get a part time job at a store similar to one you want to own or at least something in retail while you study, play as many games and get involved in as many hobbies as you possibly can to learn as much as you can about what you want to sell, and look at similar stores and think about what makes them successful.

Do not do any of this. Big waste of time.

not if you want to stay knowledgeable about what to do and run your business properly. seriously are you wanting him to fail ? he can take classes at night or whenever one or two classes a week to understand about taxs and book keeping and so forth.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 toothgrinder wrote:

All this is also going to enable you to meet a lot of people that play the stuff you're going to sell so that when you do open a store, you'll already have worked on a clientele, and make business connections that will help you out once you're actually going to be opening. These stores DO exist and new ones DO open and succeed, and there's no reason YOU can't do it, but you need a great plan, a lot of knowledge, a lot of experience, and good connections to make it all work and not end up bankrupt and burnt out.

Knowing your customers and having a great culture is better than any amount of planning.

I know people who have gone the business plan route. They throw out their business plan within 12 months because nothing goes to plan in the real world.

Seriously, the worst thing that can happen if you open a business and it fails is you end up a little bit wiser. Make sure you are starting it as an LLC or some form of corporation so your personal assets are protected. Get a partner if you need to, I know guys who give them moms a small stake and have her over for an annual meeting at Thanksgiving. All this talk about going bankrupt is meant to scare you, and the people saying it have never operated a business.

its the real world I've ran a business and know several people who have small businesses and while bankruptcy is not the end of the world it is not fun either., and once again you go into the LLC business, what has that to do with running a small business where you are not making product but selling product and selling product you had to pay cash up front with? so tell me what will an LLC protect you from? please enlighten me.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 toothgrinder wrote:

Or maybe you're rich and money is no obstacle, in which case I'm real jealous!

You don't actually need assets to form a business, but you would need cash for stock. Or maybe you can get various gaming companies to drop-ship for you, I really don't know the arrangements. I would figure out what kinds of games / minis you plan to sell and get in touch with the companies to figure out what kinds of arrangements they are willing to offer.

But, even if it's a deal where you need to pay cash up front to purchase stock to sell through your webstore, that's not the hardest thing to handle. You can do this.

to get enough stock to attract customers you are going to need a nice amount of cash at minimum about $50K to set up, this includes getting a place filling it up and so forth. (ahh back in the good old days when $20K could get you started), but you will need loans if you do not have the cash. furthermore with certain companies if you want to sell their products at retail which means getting some kind of deal you have to buy a minimum amount yearly. (looking at you GW), and its usually not your choice of product, but a general selection, also the OP was not talking about opening a webstore but a brick and mortar store. since a few companies require such to even be able to buy their products (looking at you again GW), doing a webstore takes no real effort or commitment or costs, you can just buy some product break it down and sell it off piecemeal, not a lot of profit but that is where advertisement really comes into play then. and also in the end you put more risk on your business too going the web store route.

f2k wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

 toothgrinder wrote:

You're going to have to have at least a few employees if you want to open a store, and people are probably not going to want to work for you if they have to teach you jobs that you should be capable of supervising.

Or you could just work hard like other small business owners do, and not worry about the overhead of employees for a few years.

Don't actually hire employees. Hire contractors at first, to stay out of federal and local taxes. When you do take on employees, go with a PEO like Trinet. Very affordable way to handle taxes that lets you focus on your core business.

Also, learn what EBITDA is at an early stage, or at least have an appreciation for operational cash flow. That's probably the most important business concept you need to know about to run a business like this.

I can see where you're coming from with contractors. And yet, I would strongly recommend NOT going down that path.

Firstly, from an ethical standpoint, you need to take care of those working for you. Don't treat them as disposable assets to be hired and fired at will.

There is nothing wrong with hiring people as contractors. It does not mean you treat them as disposable assets. It means that person technically works for his or herself. You pay them hourly instead of taking on the fixed expense of salary.

You know, because this is a startup business, and because you want it to succeed.

f2k wrote:
[
Secondly, from a more practical standpoint, you need a small core of dedicated workers you can trust and rely upon. And you won't get that with contractors.

Where does that come from? Have you ever owned a business and had to manage a workforce of salaried and hourly people?

This guy is talking about people to run the cash register and stock the shelves. I am not sure why that person needs to be on salary.

f2k wrote:
[
To give you an example, the company where I work recently had a minor crisis as two contractors left on very short notice. Problem was that they were from the same department, working together on the same job. So now we're suddenly two men short, had no-one to do that particular job, and no time to hire and train replacements.

So in the end one of them was talked into staying a bit longer and another contractor was pulled from a different department and given a crash course in how to do that particular job. So now you suddenly have two departments working shorthanded, and one staffed with a guy having had only a few days training...

That, for all intents and purposes, is a very bad situation to be in.

Knowledge management is important in any business. It does not sound like your business plans for that. It's not the contractor's fault. Why are you blaming them?

f2k wrote:

Yes, hiring contractors is easier in some respects. But it might come back to bite you later on. After all, contractors need not have any feelings of loyalty or duty and can leave you shorthanded at the most inopportune moments.

Take care of your employees and they'll go that extra mile for you when needed.

Of course, it might be years before you work up enough business and surplus to actually hire anyone. And until then, you're all on your own.

This is the worst advice I could imagine giving to a budding entrepreneur. If you had ever actually owned and operated a business you would understand exactly how awful this is.

Hiring contractors - which, in the US, means paying people hourly - is how 99% of small businesses account for labor in the first year of operations.

Anyone can quote Jack Welch and JW Marriott, but that doesn't make your point valid.

I'm not blaming the contractors, I'm blaming the company for failing to take proper care of the its workforce.

When you hire someone by the hour under right-to-work conditions, or even worse from a PEO, then you can't expect any kind of loyalty from them. They're paid by the hour, so an hour is all you're going to get. An employee hired for a steady full-time job, on the other hand, will go above and beyond when needed. If you treat him right, that is...

No, I haven't owned my own company, but I have helped hire people on several occasions and I have seen first-hand what happens when the employees no longer feel any kind of loyalty towards the company.

It ain't pretty...

For menial work it might be okay to have a big turnover amongst your employees. But when trying to build a business you're looking for loyalty and stability. A loyal hardworking employee is worth a lot more to you than two disgruntled contractors badmouthing you behind your back and considering this to be only a temporary job.

 techsoldaten wrote:
Hiring contractors - which, in the US, means paying people hourly - is how 99% of small businesses account for labor in the first year of operations.

No it absolutely does NOT mean paying hourly vs. salary. Please don't give terrible advice that will get you in serious trouble with the IRS.

yes, contractors vs. Employees is a tricky thing and you need to work with an accountant and lawyer before going that route. You might avoid some taxes, but you are also taking a bigger risk around audits and the like. It is not a decision to be taken lightly.

Also, anyone who tells you to skip the business plan is not someone you should listen to. It is the business plan that helps you work through all facets of your business, because getting customers doesn't matter if you aren't making a profit in the future. Amateurs worry about sales, professionals worry about profit margins.

A solid business plan walks you through the marketing, competitive advantages, financials, and demographics of your potential business. Again, I would point you to the SBA website for a good, self-guided and useful Business Plan creator.

Now, most real businesses update their business plan with actuals (the real sales and revenue) every 12 to 24 months so they can tweak there basic business formula with new ideas and projections. Do not skimp on this basic principle of business. You will regret it when you start trying to do too much or things that do no highlight your market, competitive advantages, etc. Ignoring your own business plan is another rookie mistake.

Nope, totally wrong about contractors/employees.

If you expect them there at a certain time and expect them to work so many hours then they are employees.

You cannot call them contractors. You are in charge of paying the state for things like workman's compensation and unemployment insurance.

Unless they set their own hours and have a contract with you for a certain rate, not hourly but by the job, then they are employees not contractors.

And heaven have mercy on your soul if you ask them to work over 40 hours without time-and-a-half. If you misclassify them as contractors you won't like the consequences.

You will find yourself in very hot water with your state's labor board and the I.R.S. by misclassifying your employees.

Unless there is some specialization that you have to have an actual contractor for, then the people that work for you will be paid hourly and are therefore employees.

I work in construction and this is a huge problem in our field. I have seen what happens to guys that try pulling shenanigans like this with their workers, heck I worked for a guy one time that tried this, he wasn't paying our OT and tried calling us contractors. I called the Department of Labor and his butt got nailed to the wall.

I'm not seeing some kid for a couple of hours stocking shelf or sitting on a cash register as worth going into all of that. You give the kid a part time job, it doesn't go into all of that other added stress. In fact, in a start up business, you should just take it slow, add it in as a factor in the business plan and push on. You honestly have to have a base to work from, then that additional expanse comes in as you put it in as an additional factor.

I see those two different flags, as well, and I can say for a fact that there are different ways for businesses to work, in Europe, and America. I know about America, and I think that there might be a slight disconnect in the conversation of the last two or three posts.
In game stores, Usually it is going to depend on the store, and your functions that you need to man.

I'd leave that contractor/ Employee discussion for some other time. Base the business discussion, as in a game/ hobby. comic book store. Unless you want to start going all in on Unions, Contracts, workman's comp, 401K's, Retirement accounts, Health care, education, etc.....

If you roll like any other game store/ comic store, your rolling it alone. Shop, couple of tables, toys, and some product, and your shilling them. Honestly, YOU want to sell or do something other then games. Services, trade, collectors stuff, or other sales mediums from a basic games business angle. novelty items, or collectors stuff, such as old Joes, or transformers toys or some gig like that.

finally, the conversation should tick to what works, what doesn't, how did you start, and what was it like? running a store, customer/ consumer care, relationships with distributions/ game companies, how much it really costs, etc.
How do you pay an employee, how much is enough?
what do you do for employees, etc.etc
How do you even keep the lights on and keep from getting nicked?
I want the store, I have the scratch, now what, sort of angle.

slow is smooth, smooth is fast, fast is lethal.

 Grot 6 wrote:
I'm not seeing some kid for a couple of hours stocking shelf or sitting on a cash register as worth going into all of that. You give the kid a part time job, it doesn't go into all of that other added stress. In fact, in a start up business, you should just take it slow, add it in as a factor in the business plan and push on. You honestly have to have a base to work from, then that additional expanse comes in as you put it in as an additional factor.

I see those two different flags, as well, and I can say for a fact that there are different ways for businesses to work, in Europe, and America. I know about America, and I think that there might be a slight disconnect in the conversation of the last two or three posts.
In game stores, Usually it is going to depend on the store, and your functions that you need to man.

I'd leave that contractor/ Employee discussion for some other time. Base the business discussion, as in a game/ hobby. comic book store. Unless you want to start going all in on Unions, Contracts, workman's comp, 401K's, Retirement accounts, Health care, education, etc.....

If you roll like any other game store/ comic store, your rolling it alone. Shop, couple of tables, toys, and some product, and your shilling them. Honestly, YOU want to sell or do something other then games. Services, trade, collectors stuff, or other sales mediums from a basic games business angle. novelty items, or collectors stuff, such as old Joes, or transformers toys or some gig like that.

finally, the conversation should tick to what works, what doesn't, how did you start, and what was it like? running a store, customer/ consumer care, relationships with distributions/ game companies, how much it really costs, etc.
How do you pay an employee, how much is enough?
what do you do for employees, etc.etc
How do you even keep the lights on and keep from getting nicked?
I want the store, I have the scratch, now what, sort of angle.

slow is smooth, smooth is fast, fast is lethal.

Thing of it is, if running a game store, you really won't need full time help, albeit it would help to aleviate the boredom, you might need help a few hours a day at most like right after school hours and game nights. other then that if you see a customer or two during the other hours that is considered busy. paying an employee minimum wage, its a very low skill job if you are feeling generous you can even give them an employee discount, but remember you will also be liable for their supplying their health insurance and so forth along with paid sick days, unemployment insurance coverage and so forth, as far as health insurance goes there are programs small businesses can go thru.

As to avoid things like Robbery or theft not much you can do to prevent those, as far as robbery goes keep low cash on site and theft just don't make it easy for them which involves investing in display cabinets and such for certain items. also an actual working camera system helps too.

as to your store itself you will spend a pretty penny on things like chairs, tables, shelves and so forth. now some company's will have display shelves with certain items and pricing tiers, like GW they have certain tiers of their product businesses can purchase which supply shelving and displays and such, only down fall is you do not have the option to pick and choose product with GW, they send you what they have in the tier. so if you get items that sell good and items you don't sell bad, unfortunately you do not have the option to restock only on what does sell.

what to sell? depends on what kind of store you want to be and where you are located, if you are planning on opening a store near a GW franchise then you might want to avoid selling GW products, Yu-Gi-Oh and Magic: The gathering are staple sellers for game stores, that is where you will make your money at, provided you have customers. video games avoid, too much other avenues for people to get those, some collectible items might be a good stock item, but don't go overboard, as to other games find a zone you want to go with and stick to it, stock well on them and don't be like some failing stores and only stock a couple of items from several hundred games and lines, that will kill you fast unless you have money to burn.

you will need a register and an ATM/Credit Card machine and they charge monthly to use those plus fees, and they are fees you cannot legally pass along either when it comes to Credit card transactions. also you will want a small open window fridge unit and a snack section since those always sell well, stock up at the local Smart N' Final with what you need or Costco or whatever is cheap.