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 Grumblewartz wrote:
They should be able to purchase heavy armor. It is silly that they can't. At the end of the day, I would just be happy if they could take looted wagons as a dedicated transport again. It would help with how crowded the heavy support section is. For that matter, I think every deff dread you take, you should be able to take a unit of killa kans (without taking up an extra heavy support slot).

problem with that is that your taking an expensive heavy support slot and then adding more then 25% to its cost just to give it a decent armor save. It doesn't address any of the problems and a number of weapons that currently feth up Lootas have Ignores cover AND Ap4.

What's their max unit size? Could you field a horde with some Mega Armored Gits to move them while shooting help with LD and tank incoming shots?

15 is the max size for a squad of lootas. If you buy a Mega Armored HQ to attach to the unit to "Tank shots" your paying 35pts for a Big Mek, 40pts for Mega Armor and 25pts for Da Lucky stick to give him that important rerollable 2+ armor save.. So to make that mediocre Loota unit (210pts worth of Lootas) survivable to a degree you have to spend 100 more points and take up a HQ slot.

Again this helps them a bit but doesn't address the other huge problems.


The idea that adding a Mek (Who keeps his weapon) is a good one. It makes it actually beneficial to take the stupid thing.

With these suggestions how does this sound

Loota 15ppm (+1pt) Gains Eavy Armor (4+save) and The Mek allows you to reroll number of shots. Shots also change to 1 + D3 shots. Finally, allow these guys to gain kustomized weapons. So give them the ability to purchase TL or +1 BS (Git Findas) that kind of stuff.

Give them the option of heavy armour or a free looted wagon rolled into their basic price!

Of all the units to have eavy armor the loota is the one that needs it the least (other than Meganobz ). Lootas have long range as a defense and that means they can set up in ruins or some ADL to create a 4+ cover dakka nest. For their price they do a good job of putting a lot of autocannon fire down field. Army wide fixes for Ork leadership or just boosting the Ork stat line with even a tiny 6+ FNP would help them out. I do think it would be interesting if Lootas had some more mechanics to them other than "take X models, park in cover, D3 dakkas, repeat until dead/victory,

Tankbustas and Burna Boyz are the specialist Orks need some upgraded armor badly because once their transport pops they rapidly die.
Flash GItz need their 4+ armor back (which grot over at GW stole the gitz armor?)

Yea, they probably don't need the armor as much, but I've always imagined them with armour cobbled together with scraps of plate and so on.

I agree the armour is fairly pointless for lootas. anything that would kill them would ap them in most cases. I'm not taking drop pod guys into account because for myself I use so many bodies Drop pods can't land neat my good stuff.

 Vankraken wrote:
Before deployment let the unit roll a D6 to "kustomize" their weapon which modifies the deffgun slightly. Something like -1 to enemy cover saves, pinning, AP3, poison, rending, etc. Maybe let them have a rule that is impractical but fluffy where if they wipe out a unit in CC or get into base contact with a wrecked vehicle that they can roll on the table again and add that property to their gun (repeats are wasted). Gives them a boost in power while making them "unreliable and orky" but without the downside that so much of the random rolls tend to be for the Orks. Maybe having a mek in the unit allows a reroll on the kustomize table.

Also I am fine with lootas being Heavy Support as they act very similar to Devastator Marines, Broadsides, etc which are heavy support. What needs to be moved to the Elite slot are Flash Gitz while Killa Kanz and Deffdreads need to not compete for the same slots.

AP3 weapons? But then GW's precious precious space marines could get killed without an obscene amount of effort! And by a non-fanboy faction to boot! /s.

In all seriousness, I like them being random, but the deffgun table seems difficult to balance. Maybe 2d6 with 12 being +1S, 11 being rending, 9-10 being AP3, 8-6 being pinning, 5-4 being gets hot and soul blaze and 2-3 being nothing. That isn't a balanced table, I'm just thinking about how to make it more consistent with what effects they get. I like meks helping them out, and wish that they fulfilled a purpose other that being a character for the mob rule table.

Does anyone else feel like you can't discuss Lootas without discussing looted wagons? I wish that you could just get them rhinos or chimeras or other transports from different armies, but if the looted wagon remains it should at least be able to pick up weapons from other codexes. Swiped a devilish and put wheels on it because the hover-gubbins broke, then used that as your looted wagon? You should be able to put a burst cannon on it. Looted a Chimera? Why do you have to pull the multilaser off and give it to a loota as a deffgun? Why can't the mek leave it on the tank? They should also be dedicated transports for Lootas at least.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I think them having a specific rule to be able to use other races dedicated transports would be neat.

I really like that idea!

I think they should be able to chose any weapons in the enemy force on an infantry model and the entire squad is armed with that weapon - using their own BS and WS. If they don't have any infantry models they assume their current profile.

as a balancing factor all these weapons have the gets hot rule to represent their unfamiliarity with the weapon.

Not sure about their cost with these rules - maybe a few points less? Cool factor is they could become very potent assault units!

 Xenomancers wrote:
I think they should be able to chose any weapons in the enemy force on an infantry model and the entire squad is armed with that weapon - using their own BS and WS. If they don't have any infantry models they assume their current profile.

as a balancing factor all these weapons have the gets hot rule to represent their unfamiliarity with the weapon.

Not sure about their cost with these rules - maybe a few points less? Cool factor is they could become very potent assault units!

Maybe anything looted that is shooty with >S6 or <AP4 has gets hot.>

Normal Ork weapons remain the same.

 Xenomancers wrote:
I think they should be able to chose any weapons in the enemy force on an infantry model and the entire squad is armed with that weapon - using their own BS and WS. If they don't have any infantry models they assume their current profile.

as a balancing factor all these weapons have the gets hot rule to represent their unfamiliarity with the weapon.

Not sure about their cost with these rules - maybe a few points less? Cool factor is they could become very potent assault units!

I like this, as it allows for stuff like orks with Grav or thunderhammers or tachyon arrows or other such odd weapons. It's an interesting balancing factor. "you gave your wraithguard D-scythes? Cool! Let me remagnetize my 30-odd lootas!"

Bring back 3rd ed Lootas. Problem solved.

I'd rather have second ed Lootas. the ones with kustom kombi weapons. The never had to roll to hit.

One other possible alternative is to give them variants of the deffgun that represent the different weapons they loot but are still under the catch-all umbrella term of deffgun, so they start with a deffgun but can upgrade it to:

Dakka-Deffgun: 36" S6 AP5 Heavy D6. Costs about 10 points. Gives us some mid-range dakka options without overshadowing the original deffgun which is cheaper.

Beamy-Deffgun: 48" S9 AP -D3 (So a 1-2 roll would mean its AP1, 3-4 would be AP2, etc), Heavy 1. Costs about 5 points. Gives us a variable long ranged low AP weapon that Orks have been asking for years now. Single shot means you need a reasonable number to be effective but is much more reliable compared to the low AP weapons of Mek Gunz since we always get S9.

Blasta Deffgun: 36" S7 AP2, Heavy 1, Blast, Get's Hot! Costs about 15 points. They won't compete as strongly against KMK mek gunz batteries since they are far more vulnerable against shooting while almost costing as much as a KMK while losing out on the S8.

Then give them access to gitfindas and Mekboyz upgrades being free/having better options and buffs like the aforementioned ability to re-roll the random amount of shots they roll (or AP as well in my examples) and I think they're set.

 koooaei wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:

I'd really like the WAAAGH rule expanded to shooting units the way it works for WAAAGH Planes as well.

Now That'd be a hilarious buff. drowning people in slugga fire before charging in. This extra punch is invaluable to choppaboyz. And shootas with assault 3. 2-shot rokkits and 1+d3 shot deffgunz. Man, it'd justify ghazcurion. Well, it'd kinda overbuff tankbustas compared to flash gitz and even lootas.

An extra round of shooting on tankbustas and deff koptas would be broken. LET'S DO IT!

You guys need to be careful as a LOT of these suggestions ultimately make Flash Gitz even more useless than they are.

Flash gits are as broken as pyrovores-- not as completely useless as they used to be, but they still need fairly major reworking before they're considered usable. But that's another thread.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You guys need to be careful as a LOT of these suggestions ultimately make Flash Gitz even more useless than they are.

Well Flash Gitz ideally would also be reworked as a mobile, robust dakka unit vs the more static lootas. Kinda like the orky version of sternguard versus the lootas having the devastator role. Flash Gitz would be moved to Elites, and have upgrade options similar to how they were before, with 'eavy armour built in.

The snazzgun would be the same base stats wise but have the options of:

Shootier: Gives their guns shred. 3 points per model.

More Dakka: Guns become twin-linked. 3 points per model.

Blasta: AP becomes D3 rather than D6 but it also gains the Gets Hot! rule. 5 points per model.

You can take all three but then the unit becomes very expensive but at the same time hard hitting against infantry. The Kaptin of the unit should be able to take some kind of melee weapon, like a kustom choppa that's effectively a power sword, just because the model looks awesome with it.

SemperMortis wrote:

Atm my biggest problems with Lootas are:
1: Heavy Support choices in an incredibly crowded heavy support slot (They used to be elites)
2: Glass Peashooters. Not even glass cannons, they tend to die as soon as they are targeted. Any weapon with Ignores Cover eats them alive.
3: HIGHLY unpredictable. They either put out 45 shots (15hits) a turn or they put out 15 shots (5 hits)
and finally
4: They are boring, there are no upgrades for them, they can't do anything besides shoot and die.

Lol those aren't even close to my issue with them.

-Low LD in combination with the guarantee that they will take dmg

So they will run if they get shot at.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
One way to "fix" them is to buy a bunker for them either in the form of an open topped transport or a fortification. But this will make them too expensive for my taste.

The other method is to place them in a fearless aura. This I like a lot.

Ya, I won't invest those kinds of point in them.
Little 5 strong packs work very well, mostly due to having now large expectations from them. That takes a lot of the stress out.
If gives me a lot of flexibility. You can worry about several small squads with random shooting or my infiltrating Green tides. I will use two of them in 2000 points. So, it's what ever. haha.

More on topic of the Lootas, I can't see GW making two many changes to them unless they release a replacement model and rename the Loota model they have now. Referring the the alternative Loota rules mentioned in this thread (taking other equipment and weapons)
I'm sure if they're changed at all it will be in the smallest and most "streamlined" way possible.
I think rerolling the number of shots, becoming 1+D3 and even moving to the elite slots are probably the most reasonable. But I could see the Deff Dreads and Flash gits moving to those slots instead. Mostly because, I think, Lootas are more popular and moving other units may improve the popularity (and sales?)
of the other units. But that to me still keeps the focus on FOC slots remaining important in 40K. I'd be for a more second edition format my self, Hero's, squads and support. Effectively making a lot of the codex more like troop options. Which might be a really good way to represent the diversity (of units) the Orks are. who knows and doubtful. That's probably a whole other topic.

Buying cover for Lootas tends to be useless. If you have invested in 10 or more Lootas you can be guaranteed that your opponent will look at them and go "Well that is an easy way to kill 140-210pts in a shooting phase". He will then drop any Ignores Cover weapons he has on them. Tau and SM excel at this. I have had entire Loota squads wiped out by Tau/SMs in a single shooting phase, even when they are hiding in 4+ cover because of the plethora of ignores cover those armies have access to.

As far as buying vehicles for them, I tried a few games with Lootas inside BWs to give them a bit more support. All my enemy did was DS his Melta/Flamer weapons nearby and poof there goes a MASSIVE investment and 2 heavy support choices.

Vehicles tend to be a bad idea for orks in general because they are all Open topped and against AP1 weapons they are +3 on the damage chart (50/50 to explode) against Eldar its worse. Regardless, when they explode you lose on average 50% of your unit, you then probably fail either the pinning test or the leadership test, roll a 2+ on average and kill another D6 boys.

As far as range being the protection for Lootas...well a lot of weapons have Range 48 or higher. If Lootas wanted to use Range as a defense (Which doesn't sit with the fluff at all mind you) they would need Range 60 or 72. Otherwise most heavy weapons can reach them.

And for weapons, please god don't give my orks anymore gets hot. Our faction has the absolute MOST Gets hot weapons in the game and the 2nd most random tables (behind CSM) we dont need anymore BAD in our codex design.

Fix for Flash Gitz: Give them grav.

 JimOnMars wrote:
Fix for Flash Gitz: Give them grav.

No, please god no more grav. Get rid of grav. Get rid of stupid GMC and MC that should be classified as Vehicles or Super Heavies. Get rid of the ability to spam D weapons in regular games. This game has to stop using steroids and get back to lifting weights the right way

SemperMortis wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
Fix for Flash Gitz: Give them grav.

No, please god no more grav. Get rid of grav. Get rid of stupid GMC and MC that should be classified as Vehicles or Super Heavies. Get rid of the ability to spam D weapons in regular games. This game has to stop using steroids and get back to lifting weights the right way

In theory, you could give everything steroids instead, but that would require a complete re-release of everything, including every codex (at the same time, otherwise the ones that don't get updated become unusable until they get fixed) and all of FW's stuff too to bring it all back in line with the game. It would also require the strength to be distributed fairly, and we all know that one faction will hog it all for themselves. Look at 7e for example. The game's potential power level is higher than last edition IIRC, but the average power level between each unit in all the books pooled together isn't significantly changed. So the solution of reining everything in is better. Also, GW does need to be more consistent about what makes a walker/vehicle and what makes a MC. Because as far as I can tell things are classified as MCs if they're tyranids, DE, or if GW wants to sell a lot of them.

Just had a thought, like CSM winning a challenge to get chaos favors, if they kill a unit, "roll on the following chart for what they find (Grots brought them da loot)".
I could see on a six a single use crack missile etc...

 JimOnMars wrote:
Fix for Flash Gitz: Give them grav.

Flash Gitz are so close to being good and them having 4+ armor back in their base stats will put them where they need to be (make it base for all "Nobz"). It makes them much more durable in close combat, survives vehicle explosions far better, general boost in survivability to a lot of shooting, etc that snowball into making Gitz that much more effective on the table.

 koooaei wrote:
Lootas perform ok as they are. However, in no way they're 'lootas'. Just 'Deffgunnaz'. And it makes me sad.

The way i'd improve them is give them free reign on taking whatever stuff they want all from different codexes as they're supposed to be looting shiny and loud guns.

Bolters, stormbolters, assault cannons, missile launchers, plazma cannons, scatlasers, shuricannons, lazcannons, sniper rifles, heavy stabbers, meltas and so on. That's what they should be able te pick from. And autocannons if you want them to be fielded as is.

Agreed, they are not a bad unit as of now, but they are incredibly boring. Give them choice to take a selection of gunz from other armies but they all become Assault Weapon with the gets hot rule. As some mentionned, having a selection of enemy vehicle as dedicated transport would not only be awesome but would be a great incentives for conversions.

Please no more Gets Hot! weapons on my flimsy units there's a reason no one takes KMBs on our walkers or infantry - a 6+ save Ork with BS2 kills himself half as often as he hits his target. Lootas don't need much to improve, they are our autocannon unit and they're fairly efficient at that it's their leadership and survivability that's the problem not their damage output.

 warhead01 wrote:
I'd prefer the Ork army to just get piped up to BS3 across the board.

I'd rather have them at BS4 with an Initiative increase. Maybe reduce their attack to 1 and raise their point cost a little bit so they don't become too overpowered. This way, they'll be practically MEQ, be easier to play and would have 0 distinctive edge.

Come on, BS 2 on Orks is not only a defining trait of the army but also needed for them to retain their character (an horde army with powerful c.c. units)

BS2 with a boat load of shots is the Orky way... The problem is GW lately has been handing out volume of fire shooting to everyone except the Orks (where is our heavy 20 weapons?).

xlDuke wrote:
Please no more Gets Hot! weapons on my flimsy units there's a reason no one takes KMBs on our walkers or infantry - a 6+ save Ork with BS2 kills himself half as often as he hits his target. Lootas don't need much to improve, they are our autocannon unit and they're fairly efficient at that it's their leadership and survivability that's the problem not their damage output.

Thinking about it, Get's hot wouldn't work since some of these gunz fire more than 1 shot a turn, so the amount of 1 rolled would be astronomical. Maybe add them a special rule (called something along the line of Full Dakka) where they double the number of shots fired but they have Gets Hot! Of course, they'd also need a 4+ armour save for it to be viable.