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Commissar Benny wrote:
Ogryns are massive brutes whose immense strength is legendary throughout the imperium.

Aye. I still remember that one picture with an Eldar Guardian lying on the ground, looking up in disbelieveing horror at an Ogryn who is bending the Eldar's jetbike like a marine would bend a bar of steel. Or how Nork dragged a disabled Chimera back to the wounded officer since there's a medkit in it...

aushlo wrote:

I forgot Grotesques, good point. Although on them I see FNP as just being so pumped with biological stimms and so inured to pain they just don't notice. I can see an Ogryn who's not in battle mode stubbing his toe and crying like a baby, honestly!

But I also see them in the heat of the moment taking massive amounts of firepower "cuz da commisar told me to hold dat door!" ala Hodor. Maybe Nork is exceptional but it seems that he also takes massive amounts of damage throughout his fluff. I would almost argue that Orgyn are the like the hulk and they are more powerful the more angry they are.

 generalchaos34 wrote:

aushlo wrote:

I forgot Grotesques, good point. Although on them I see FNP as just being so pumped with biological stimms and so inured to pain they just don't notice. I can see an Ogryn who's not in battle mode stubbing his toe and crying like a baby, honestly!

But I also see them in the heat of the moment taking massive amounts of firepower "cuz da commisar told me to hold dat door!" ala Hodor. Maybe Nork is exceptional but it seems that he also takes massive amounts of damage throughout his fluff. I would almost argue that Orgyn are the like the hulk and they are more powerful the more angry they are.

Weird that rules wise he doesn't actually help much until it's just him and the boss. If he had a special rule allowing him to use his T to eat fire, he'd be a champ.

The Forewarning Power is a way to boost them pretty well.

Barring that, which is no guarantee, I also think you can use Ogryns as simple distractions and speed bumps. Most armies have some way to protect their important stuff fro a charge and Ogryns can handle that duty.

They are a tweener unit. Meaning they need other units to synergize with them. They act a lot like Grotesques and Grotesques are beloved by all Dark Eldar players. But that is because there is a good way to deliver them. The IG lack the delivery system and so they must either rely on Strategic Warlord Traits (for outflanking and scouting) or allies or Psyker powers to work them in effectively.

I'm not convinced this is terrible news on its own because the good news is you can do all those things. If this is a unit you love and want in your force, consdier that a Priest is only 25 points and adds considerably to the unit. It is then Fearless (effectively) and getting Hatred the first turn of combat. That alone is quite a bit of upgrading for a very small price. the Priests ability on an LD check to also allow them to re-roll their saves in close combat, while again not totally stellar, is also not nothing. It adds significantly when it works and the 25 points in my book has paid for itself before you even calculate this in. The Priest can also smite if the Re-roll on saves isnt appealing, turning his chainsword into an AP 2 chainsword OR a single attack at STR 6 AP 2. Lastly he can instead of all that have the unit re-rolling wounds. Not as big a deal with Ogryn, but worth noting, especially when you're already re-rolling to hits in the first round of combat.

Moving flat out in their transport the first turn is also kind of a no brainer for them.

the big question to answer is how large do you want the units? With a Priests they will certainly survive in small units and stand for a round before dying against quite a few units and this is ideal for dslowing enemies down in key areas or holding them up from reaching objectives for that fateful final turn. Small units strike me as a good idea.

pm713 wrote:
Considering a Space Marine is a big genetically engineered super warrior and they're T4 I'd say T4 qualifies as big and meaty.

Yeah but a Marine ain't Very Bulky. A Marine in terminator armor is only bulky... imagine how fething huge something very bulky is. Also concider they don't wear any combersome/big armor either.


and what I'd like to do with Ogryns?? well use them without being an insta win for my opponent because they cost an outrageous amount of point for the level of utility they bring.

I reckon the profile seems about right, but they just cost far too many points. About 25 seems fine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also like the command squad bodyguard suggestion. Also, I'd kind of like to see them back in Ork armies, a la 1st edition.

Checked Ogryn against Grotesques just out of curiosity. For +5pts over a Grotesque an Ogryn loses 4+ poison/ID on a 6, two points of Initiative, FNP, and Rampage, and gains one point of armour, three S5 shots at BS3, Hammer of Wrath, frag grenades, and a Ld high enough to be used without a character without immediately running off.

I'd say 25-30ish for Grotesques and 30-35ish for Ogryn, accounting for the difference in transport quality.

(The price seems a result of the jack-of-all-trades problem as much as anything. Three S5 shots a model is pretty big, but they can't make good use of them while in melee and using them lowers their chance of getting to melee with this edition's wound allocation.)

Hrm, Ld6/7 is still low enough to require a babysitting character for what Ogryn cost, they absolutely must have Ld support to work. The frag grenades and extea point of armor are largely pointless, theyll rarely get meaningful use out of either.

Well, I still say that dropping the points to 25, making the armour save a 4+ with a 5+++ FNP, giving both the Ogryns themselves and the Rippers Shred and Rending and allow them to re-roll charge distances.

Only then would they be worth something.