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LightKing wrote:
I can only think of 2

M'shen defeating Curze and Luther defeating the Lion

are there more?


Don't think M'shen counts as a regular human. Assassins tend to be pretty super human. Eversor assassins can go toe to toe with Astartes.

Does Eugen Temba vs Horus count? Granted he was buffed by Chaos.

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 angelofvengeance wrote:
LightKing wrote:
I can only think of 2

M'shen defeating Curze and Luther defeating the Lion

are there more?


Don't think M'shen counts as a regular human. Assassins tend to be pretty super human. Eversor assassins can go toe to toe with Astartes.

Does Eugen Temba vs Horus count? Granted he was buffed by Chaos.

Horus took a flesh wound to the shoulder total. Temba got his a$$ handed to him, the only damage he caused was superficial at best, it was the venom of the anathema which caused the problems
   
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Which is true, but a wound is a wound, no mean feat considering Horus is a Primarch and Temba was a mere man, despite being juiced up. Although it did seem like the sword was doing most of the attacking rather than Temba.

What are the stipulations here to be considered as losing, I think we might need to establish a basis for what that is.

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Didn't Angron almost lose to a Contemptor in Betrayer?

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 Tactical_Spam wrote:
Didn't Angron almost lose to a Contemptor in Betrayer?

No, he killed it in a single blow and recieved no damage at all in return
   
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 Pilau Rice wrote:
Temba was a mere man


Considering his description in False Gods, he seemed closer to a Nurgle DP than a 'mere man'!

Imagine that you’re sitting down to dinner with your family, and while everyone else gets a serving of the meal, you don’t get any. So you say “I should get my fair share.” And as a direct response to this, your dad corrects you, saying, “everyone should get their fair share.” Now, that’s a wonderful sentiment — indeed, everyone should, and that was kinda your point in the first place: that you should be a part of everyone, and you should get your fair share also. However, dad’s smart-!@# comment just dismissed you and didn’t solve the problem that you still haven’t gotten any!

The problem is that the statement “I should get my fair share” had an implicit “too” at the end: “I should get my fair share, too, just like everyone else.” But your dad’s response treated your statement as though you meant “only I should get my fair share”, which clearly was not your intention. As a result, his statement that “everyone should get their fair share,” while true, only served to ignore the problem you were trying to point out.

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BaconUprising wrote:
 Tactical_Spam wrote:
Didn't Angron almost lose to a Contemptor in Betrayer?

No, he killed it in a single blow and recieved no damage at all in return


Lorgar was struggling with Lhorke for awhile but that was after the fight with the psychic Revenant if I recall correctly. I don't know if you would class a Contemptor as a regular Astartes either

 Ashiraya wrote:
 Pilau Rice wrote:
Temba was a mere man


Considering his description in False Gods, he seemed closer to a Nurgle DP than a 'mere man'!


Hmm, I did say Juiced up

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Temba was a mere man, despite being juiced up.


So we don't include Temba then for sure?

I think the outcome of this thread is going to be is that there aren't any

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/08 14:49:21


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 Pilau Rice wrote:
BaconUprising wrote:
 Tactical_Spam wrote:
Didn't Angron almost lose to a Contemptor in Betrayer?

No, he killed it in a single blow and recieved no damage at all in return


Lorgar was struggling with Lhorke for awhile but that was after the fight with the psychic Revenant if I recall correctly. I don't know if you would class a Contemptor as a regular Astartes either



Lorgar was channeling one of the greatest spells ever created, after having just duelled Guilliman and fending off a psychic covenant of WE librarians, he didn't have any power left to fight them and he's arguably the weakest Primarch. Angron dealt with Lhorke in a single blow
   
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BaconUprising wrote:

Lorgar was channeling one of the greatest spells ever created, after having just duelled Guilliman and fending off a psychic covenant of WE librarians, he didn't have any power left to fight them and he's arguably the weakest Primarch. Angron dealt with Lhorke in a single blow


Which is why I said for awhile and I did say about the psychic Revenant. I was in support of Lorgar. I mentioned the fight between Lhorke and Lorgar as that was more of a fight and was possibly what Tactical_Spam was thinking about.

Is this pick on Pilau day

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/12/08 15:18:16


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 reds8n wrote:
 Nerak wrote:
I don't have a citation but didn't the Custodes Captain beat Horus in a sparring match? The Custodes aren't regular Astartes but still.


they're not Astartes at all.

Developed from/leftover of the Golden men technology.



You got a source on that red? The only one I know which mentions the golden men is this one, and I don't see a direct link between them and the Custodes there.

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++The Journal of Keeper Cripias +++
Dated in the year of our Emperor 993.M41


For seventy long years I have laboured as Master Finnias laboured before me, and Master Shadiel before him, through eight hundred and thirty six generations of Keepers of the Library Sanctus of Terra. It has been our endeavour, our life-long aim, to compile a history of the majesty of the Human Race from the archives which are our worship. In his benevolent wisdom, the Emperor has granted me the singular and great honour and pleasure of completing this sacred task in my own lifespan.

Through copious notes and periods of cogitation I have pieced together the history and pre-history of Mankind into the greatest antiquities of time. Here I have revealed my findings for the first time, for as it was in the time of the First Keeper, Solomon, our knowledge has passed by oratory and not written word. However, in these changing times there are none worthy to succeed me now, and so it is fit and rightful that I, the Last Keeper, Cripias, records our Great Works to these pages for eternity.

And so it was that in the First Age of Man, the Golden Age, there is the Emperor Unseen and unheralded he prepares the Old Earth for the coming of Mankind and he watches and he waits. He is joined by the First Men of the Golden Race, fine of limb and strong of mind, yet still the Emperor is content to wait in shadow. To watch and learn from Mankind, the Golden Race spreads across the face of Old Earth, multiplying and establishing Order and Civilisation on the anarchy of Nature.



In time, the Second Men of the Stone Race appear, and in their wake come many miracles and marvels of technology that strengthen the Stone Mens power, but are also harnessed by those of the Golden Race. Although physically inferior to the Golden Race, and not of philosophical temperament and disposition, the Stone Men have in them the conjurations of great artifices and mechanisms. In time, the Golden Race looks to the stars to expand their dominion. The Stone Race builds great machines of power that send both Men of Stone and Men of Gold into the Ether. However, once the burgeoning race of Mankind has taken its first steps into the greater cosmos, the Golden Race dwindles in influence through their dependence on the artifices of the Stone Race. This the Golden Age comes to an end and the Stone Men prevail.

Our calculations, from the most distant and archaic records, and through constellar comparison, have dated the end of the Golden Age at 20.000 years previous to our present time.

For the next 5.000 years, the Stone Race lives through the Dark Age of Technology. Little can be determined from the Dark Age of Technology, for the majority of existing records concerning that period are gathered in the Librarius Omnis of Mars, and none outside the highest ranks of the Adeptus Mechanicus can gain access past its most determined Guardians (Keeper Malrubius tried once, but to no avail. We have surmised that during the Dark Age of Technology, the Men of Ston create the Iron Men to help them in the building of their Great Empire. At first, the Iron Men are as servants, willing to do the bidding of their masters with no thoughts.



However, the Iron Men, as all creatures do, evolve and grow until they are the equal of the Stone Race and beside each other they set about conquering the galaxy. The Dark Age of Technology is an era of machines and artificial devices, used by the Stone Men, and later the Iron Men, in their endeavours. Many of the technical marvels that the Priesthood of Mars sustain can be traced to their origins in the Dark Age of Technology, and itt is at the end of this period that the great organisation know now as the Adeptus Mechanicus was founded. During the Dark Age of Technology, the austere ancestors of the Imperium's Navis Nobilite are born, and through their unique prowess, mankind forges through the stars. Weapons of great destruction cow the aggression of alien enemies, pushing back the frontiers of Mankind's dominions.

The end of the Dark Age of Technology is the most obscure region in mankind's evolutionary tale. For whatever reasons and differences in ideology, the Stone Men and the Iron Men fell to warring with each other. The Iron Men are possessed of no Soul, an anathema to any true Man. The Stone Men in their final acts of self-preservation, annihilate the Iron Men who have turned from ally to foe, and even those of the Iron Race who retain their former loyalties to their one-time masters are destroyed in the fiery crucible of battle. Still the Emperor, in his eternal wisdom, awaits the moment to reveal the true path to Mankind's destiny. Thus the start of the Age of Strife is heralded.



The Age of Strife sees the collapse of the ancient Empire built by the Stone Men. Mankind is split asunder, there is no Race of Man, just warring factions contending with each other in the direst perils the galaxy could offer. Seeing humanity's weakness, alien dominance grows in power one again, the arms of the Stone Men left to ruin, the protection of the Iron Men destroyed in the last years of the Dark Age of Technology. For five millennia, the human race exists in the twilight of its former greatness, bickering and fighting for the scant resources to hand. With no guiding will, no manifest destiny of lordship, mankind is left in turmoil. Even Earth, the bedrock on which humanity's Empire was founded is gripped in the throes of generation-long intercine war. The foul aliens who had been held back by the might of the Iron Men and the Stone Men surge forth from their havens and lairs, destroying mankinds defences, killing or enslaving the Emperor's wards. Mankind is engulfed by a plague of mutation, physical deviants and men possessed of psychic talents appear throughout the galaxy bringing more havoc with them. With no over-reaching authority, these lost souls and psykers sprawl unchecked across the human race. It is at this time that the Emperor reveals his true nature and sets about his plans of deliverance from anarchy.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/01/29 21:41:33



 
   
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is this an image of a regular astarte fighting Perturabo?

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/8/8d/FirstWallArt.jpg
   
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LightKing wrote:
is this an image of a regular astarte fighting Perturabo?

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/8/8d/FirstWallArt.jpg
No, it's not. That's Kroeger, an Iron Warriors Warsmith.

They/them 
   
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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
There was that Grey Knight that carved his name into Mortarion’s heart.

As you do.


Was that Morty? I thought it was just some normie DP?
   
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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
There was that Grey Knight that carved his name into Mortarion’s heart.

As you do.


Was that Morty? I thought it was just some normie DP?
It was actual Mortarion.

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Not exactly human, but the Big E was almost killed by an Ork in hand-to-hand combat once

Also wasn't Rogal Dorn allegedly killed during a boarding action on a Chaos vessel?
   
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The problem with Dorn is that lore has him disappear attacking a Despoiler class battleship, which was not designed until the 36th millennium. If Dorn only went missing in M.36 then why did he not help the Imperial Fists during the War of the Beast when the only loyalist Primarch to be around is Vulkan
Spoiler:
who then blows up.

Anyway, Dorn would have died to hordes of CSM/Cultists/Deamons so I don't think it counts. None of the Primarchs died to baseline humans because that would just be sad.
   
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If you aren't talking 1vs1 fight, but a more overall 'Primarch losing to an Astartes', Pollux absolutely curb stomped Perturabo at Phall and Perty was only saved by Dorns message for all IFs to return to Terra immediately.
   
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 ChazSexington wrote:
As mentioned, Kaldor spanking Mortarion, then signing off on Mortarion's heart.

Pollux would have beaten Perturabo if he not for Perty having his ass saved by a deus ex machina.

Luther did beat the Lion though, and I think most people downplay how awesome Luther was; he wasn't even a real Astartes! It's mentioned in the fluff, that if not for the Lion, the people of Caliban would have remembered Luther as the hero of an age.

And the Chaos Gods haven't boosted anyone else to Primarch levels. Just look at Abaddon. They barely managed to give him Eternal Warrior. I mean, Khorne couldn't even make Khârn stand up to a Space Marine Captain with a powerfist.


Didnt Corswain also go toe to toe with Konrad and held his own? Tbh most 30k Dark Angel characters are just beasts, Redloss is my man.

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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
There was that Grey Knight that carved his name into Mortarion’s heart.

As you do.


Urrrrgghhhhh.. why bring that up? I could never decide if that a bit of satire that didn't quite work or just an awful piece of background by someone with a Space Marines duvet cover.

Worst piece of friday-afternoon-must-hit-word-count background/satire misfire next to the Land Raider being designed by Arkhan Land.

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Sharrokyn shot Fulgrim in the face and escaped - does that count?

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I feel like we've cleared it pretty well that normal humans don't come close to ever beating a Primarch and even Astartes struggle.
   
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As i recall a grey knight, who started out as a kid in the ravenor novels, broke Angron's personal daemon weapon sword in combat. I'd say that counts as being on the level of giving a primarch a whuppin' since angron was full daemon primarch by then and one assumes he had some sort of incredible daemon weapon sword.

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 angelofvengeance wrote:
LightKing wrote:
I can only think of 2

M'shen defeating Curze and Luther defeating the Lion

are there more?


Don't think M'shen counts as a regular human. Assassins tend to be pretty super human. Eversor assassins can go toe to toe with Astartes.

Does Eugen Temba vs Horus count? Granted he was buffed by Chaos.


Luther was all pumped up on chaos powers, I don’t think he counts as regular
   
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The best example was when some Iron Hand in a gunship almost shredded Horus, Fulgrim, and Mortarion all at the same time. If he'd parked a hundred metres further back, that would have been the end of the Heresy.


 
   
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TBF that was three Fire Raptors but yeah they came closer than probably any other Astartes which is only fair considering the firepower of three Fire Raptors. However, by that point Fulgrim was fully demonic and Mortarion had taken on some of Nurgles boons, whether he knew it or not, so they were both very much not "normal" Primarchs anymore.
   
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mrFickle wrote:
 angelofvengeance wrote:
LightKing wrote:
I can only think of 2

M'shen defeating Curze and Luther defeating the Lion

are there more?


Don't think M'shen counts as a regular human. Assassins tend to be pretty super human. Eversor assassins can go toe to toe with Astartes.

Does Eugen Temba vs Horus count? Granted he was buffed by Chaos.


Luther was all pumped up on chaos powers, I don’t think he counts as regular


Lion & Luther is an exact mirror of Emperor & Horus.
If the question was could a normal Primarch beat the Emperor, you can’t count Horus as being regular.

Also, as described, Lion kind of wins, but can’t do it, so Luther capitalises on that.
   
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Not sure this counts, but basically young leman russ (I say young but he was psychically matures at a year old like primarchs tended to be) was captured by the tribe of russ when he was about a year old, and somehow king leman was able to make him follow his lead, and made a more or less human being out of him and a member of the tribe.

Also, lion el'johnson was almost killed by a band of humans in power armor with bolt pistols and chainswords before luthor saved him.



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