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 techsoldaten wrote:
I have not seen the section in the BRB that deals with explaining one's list. I find it leads to questions more than a good time.

Pg. 117, under "The Force Roster”

“To keep things fair, you must always allow your opponent to read your force roster before the game if they wish to do so.”

Now it doesn’t tell you that you need to explain everything, but they have a right to know what you are taking, gear upgrades, etc.

Competative or casual and points limit is about it, though anything too out of the ordinary (all knight army, green tide etc) usually warrants a mention. Most of the time people just say what army they're bringing and that's enough for the vets to have a rough idea how strong a list they should plan for.

9 times out of 10, it's gonna be casual and 1500 or 1850 points, so if you bring a list with that in mind around here, you should be pretty set for a pick up game too.

I play it for friendly games:
1. Discuss point value and mission type (Maybe give them options for what army they want to play against as I have multiple.)
2. LoW or not?
3. Go off and make our lists in "private"
4. Set up table jointly
5. Reveal lists and play.

Makes it a bit more fun, the LoW part is so you do not run into the situation where one army just can't do crap to the other.

 Nevelon wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
I have not seen the section in the BRB that deals with explaining one's list. I find it leads to questions more than a good time.

Pg. 117, under "The Force Roster”

“To keep things fair, you must always allow your opponent to read your force roster before the game if they wish to do so.”

Now it doesn’t tell you that you need to explain everything, but they have a right to know what you are taking, gear upgrades, etc.

Yes, but only if you swap rosters. Don't give them yours unless they agree to give your theirs, which they cannot change after seeing what you are bringing.

SaltySeaDog wrote:
I am referring only to social games where the main focus is having a beer & some fun. I'm new to 40k and my friend (and main opponent) is new to the game despite having collected & painting armies for years- he's never actually played with any of his stuff.

So my question is, to what extent do you discuss your army list prior to D-Day? We obviously want a well-balanced affair and we are enjoying staying in touch about what models we are buying/ painting. Our forces are growing together.

Luck of the dice & inherent tactical ability aside, neither one of us wants to destroy the other.

So, what etiquette would you advise? Keeping one another fully briefed on what models you intend to field (and even bouncing tactics ideas off one another), or simply setting a points limit & keeping what's in your army a surprise until deployment?

Please also explain your logic.

I thinkg its fantastic that you guys are remembering that it's about having fun. I know when I first started playing we kind had a "handoff" date. We had until a certain day and then we had to trade lists that day and would talk about them as we led up to our weekly game. talking about it was fun and it helped me think about the choices I made leading up to game day. Sometimes he would say "Oh man well if you took X and did Y, then I am going to have to do Z" which got my tactical juices flowing. Really enjoyed those conversations. Gave me good insight.

Nowadays, everyone tries to catch me offguard with the "ah ha!" surprise flavor of the month army. Not as fun to deal with. just ferreting through the rules is a pain. I think having that time to talk about the rules and the Psyker powers and all that made us both stronger players.

I played against the Magnus the Red Formation tonight and I was just kind of shell shocked at how many special rules I needed to be cognizant of. Thats what its like if you are just showing up to play whomever. So I see a lot of value in casual games to doing the hand off at a certain day and then chatting and conversing about them leading up to the game. More of a cooperative feel than the less friendly alternative. I have even taken to mixing up what armies I bring just so list tailoring is at a minimum against me.

at my local gaming crew, we generally let the opponent have a look at the designated list since we`re only doing casual, funny games. if there`s room for discussion (as in, GAK MATE Y U BRINGING ALL THEM HORDES!?!?!?) we can talk about things like swapping (for a horde army useless) meltas to flamers, and such. Also it is good to know, if your opponent fields grey knights, since i have a huge boner for all the daemon and khorne things.

outside of competative, I like to cover:

1) set ground rules (i.e. yes/no on lords of war, points, etc.)
2) what core faction are we bringing?
3) anything they don't face well (if it's someone new to IG with only infantry, I don't wanna be a bit of a dick and bring a metric ton of tanks)

 techsoldaten wrote:
I have not seen the section in the BRB that deals with explaining one's list. I find it leads to questions more than a good time.

Does everything have to be in the rulebook?

yes?

whirlwindstruggle wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
I have not seen the section in the BRB that deals with explaining one's list. I find it leads to questions more than a good time.

Does everything have to be in the rulebook?

To be considered part of the rules, yes. I don't have to make concessions outside of what is permitted by the rulebook, but I do, because I choose not to be a donkey-cave.

My opponent and I like to go over what everything in my army is and does. I also provide explanations mid-game if required and volunteer information if my opponent is making a questionable decision. My opponent's army was pretty consistent for several years, so no surprises there.

I guess I never viewed 40k as the kind of game where you hide what in your army does what.

I wait until my opponent also has their list done, then we tell each other the fine details over the few days before the game.

That way our commanders have a full understanding of their enemy and have already begun formulating a battle plan

 Nevelon wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
I have not seen the section in the BRB that deals with explaining one's list. I find it leads to questions more than a good time.

Pg. 117, under "The Force Roster”

“To keep things fair, you must always allow your opponent to read your force roster before the game if they wish to do so.”

Now it doesn’t tell you that you need to explain everything, but they have a right to know what you are taking, gear upgrades, etc.

Does "The Most Important Rule" still exist?

Try it both ways. See which you like better. I generally like to be surprised, and I try to take a well balanced list. Sure, I bring one Screamer Star, but I don't run the full compliment of heralds. If you're both trying for the most tough as nails list you can make, surprise is probably fun. If you're trying to forge a narrative, you'd likely want to be up front about it what you're bringing. I like to be moderately competitive without being the biggest dick-cheese possible. So I personally prefer to just show up and be surprised. If you like the narrative style, you'll likely prefer knowing what is waiting for you (and giving your opponent the same heads up). Of course, either way, always have a list with point values and your codex handy.

I just run through it all, and answer any questions. eg...

*whilst pointing at respective squads*
''10 sanguinary guard, 8 swords 2 fists.
with a sanguinary priest-''

''what does he do?''

''oh he's like an apothecary HQ''

''oh cool''

''yeah I know he's got a power sword
10 tacticals, melta gun heavy flamer''

ETC

Before the game it's really just the points limit. Depending on my opponent I may mention if I'm bringing a flyer or something like that.

However before we start rolling dice I definitely think it's sportsmanlike to run down each player's list with precisions on WYSIWYG and any special rules or equipment that certain models may have.

I'm more of a surprise list kind of guy. Eliminates list tailoring, and keeps people honest and building a list that is more TAC.

Of course that only works to a certain extent, unless everyone has multiple large armies.

In a league setting, where everyone knows what armies people are playing (even if they don't know all the units the other person has), it is more difficult to eliminate list tailoring, unless the lists are fixed from the beginning, and perhaps grow as the league progresses, like in escalation.

When playing casually with friends, I definitely prefer blind lists. It just keeps things fun and interesting.

Honestly, I rarely if ever list tailor.

A good game should be blind lists, and each player should be able to examine the other player's list before the game starts. It just makes for a fun and balanced game.

That's my 2 cents.

If you aren't playing WYSIWYG, or playing with proxies, you should disclose your full list, and highlight where there's a difference.

I shouldn't have to find out your missile launcher is really a plasma cannon when you start shooting it.

I'll let people know what faction and wether it's a friendly or competitive list. When we're there and about to set up we'll take a look at each other's army list more out of curiosity than anything. I would be immensely suspicious of someone who didn't have some sort of copy of what they took.

Really at the end of the day when you've played long enough to see everything you're more happy to be surprised than to win. It's like pro wrestling. Who knows the w/l record of the undertaker or stone cold Steve Austin? Do those guys even know? Just have fun with it, and it'll be fun.

I run a TAC list, and it doesn't change often so I usually have a printed copy or two with me, and will offer one to my opponent.

Whats the point of playing a game like this if you don't disclose what units you're fielding?

For friendly at home games I just send a copy of the battlescribe roster to my friend. For local FLGS type games I'll have the roster with me printed out if they want to see it but no one usually cares.

 master of asgard wrote:
Before the game it's really just the points limit. Depending on my opponent I may mention if I'm bringing a flyer or something like that.

However before we start rolling dice I definitely think it's sportsmanlike to run down each player's list with precisions on WYSIWYG and any special rules or equipment that certain models may have.

I agree with this 100%.

While I'd rarely discuss my list before a game, I'll always describe my units (weapons upgrades, unusual special rules, etc) as I deploy each one. I feel it's a best of both worlds approach. There can't really be any list tailoring, as my opponent doesn't know exactly what I'll be fielding before a game (and vice-versa), but they also won't feel ambushed by any special rules or equipment. One exception is that I would disclose if I wanted to use a special character, or LoW if I ever get one, beforehand.

Quick anecdote: I remember playing on a table next to two lads who were becoming progressively more upset with each other as they played. They hadn't disclosed certain upgrades and special rules before the game, probably for a bit of a tactical edge, but it was resulting in an increasingly bad-tempered game. I fully expect this kind of nonsense at a tourney, but this was a casual game. In either setting, casual or competitive, I think it's incredible poor form to try and exploit a bit of ignorance regarding such a complex game for a cheap advantage.

I usually like to give a basic run down, especially if there is any quirky rules.