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My position is supported by the rulebook, yours isn't. If nightmare doll isn't worded as a dice modifier then it isn't modifying your die roll. Does nightmare doll say D6+1? No it does not. If it isn't modifying your die roll then it has to be a FNP modifier, which you can't use with spirit probe. Constantly parroting to me how you want it to work does not make it so. I've given you rulebook references that support my position, all you've got is "no it works like this." Not terribly convincing.

You quote a passage in a vacuum ignoring the other rules around it, claiming falsely that a given example of how a rule states a dice to is modified is the only way it can be modified ever. Clearly the rule for nightmare doll references rolling a dice and adding one to it to get the result.

You ignore that claiming it's not written as the "such as" example of d6+1, instead being written out in word as opposed to a numerical mathematics operation invalidates it, in your personal opinion. You claim instead it modifies the FnP value, the same as spirit probe, despite it not stating such in any form.

Rolling d6 and adding one is d6+1.

And here is where our discussion ends.

I haven't ignored any of the rules in that section, you're actually the one who's deliberately misinterpreting the section so that it works the way you think it does. For the LAST time, p. 11 under 'Modifying Dice Rolls'

"Sometimes, you may have to modify the number rolled on the dice (or 'the roll'). This is noted as D6 plus or minus a number."

If you seriously think this explicitly stated description of a dice modifier is just an example, you have reading comprehension problems. My personal opinion has nothing to do with this, I'm looking at the rule as it's written. If it said "this is sometimes noted as D6 plus or minus a number" or "can be noted as D6 plus or minus a number" the entire section would be open to interpretation and you could argue that nightmare doll complies with this section of the rulebook. But the rulebook doesn't say that, so it's an open and shut case.

 creeping-deth87 wrote:
My position is supported by the rulebook, yours isn't. If nightmare doll isn't worded as a dice modifier then it isn't modifying your die roll. Does nightmare doll say D6+1? No it does not. If it isn't modifying your die roll then it has to be a FNP modifier, which you can't use with spirit probe. Constantly parroting to me how you want it to work does not make it so. I've given you rulebook references that support my position, all you've got is "no it works like this." Not terribly convincing.

Actually, the basic vs advanced rules section would support blacktoof over what you're saying. The codex saying "adds 1 to any Feel No Pain rolls he makes" would override a statement in the book saying expressed as a d6 +1. as it's more advanced than the general statement you are using.

The basic vs advanced section is just restating the codex trumps rulebook argument. It gives units permission to override the rulebook when they are given permission to do something the rulebook says they can't (like running and shooting in the same turn). Nightmare doll is not giving you permission to do something the rulebook says you can't, so basic vs advanced is not relevant here.

 creeping-deth87 wrote:
The basic vs advanced section is just restating the codex trumps rulebook argument. It gives units permission to override the rulebook when they are given permission to do something the rulebook says they can't (like running and shooting in the same turn). Nightmare doll is not giving you permission to do something the rulebook says you can't, so basic vs advanced is not relevant here.

Nightmare doll give you permission to add +1 to the FNP roll. It's clearly stated there. You are treating the section on dice modifiers in the book as if it is saying that it can not be expressed in any fashion other than saying d6 + 1. If you go with that argument then it overrides the part of the rulebook that says it has to be expressed as a d6+1. Your insistence that it has to be stated in that format is ludicrous when we are given something in a codex that plainly states that you get the modifier to the roll yet doesn't express it in the format you say. So, if we go what you state then there is a conflict between the rules in the main book and the codex, and the advanced rules apply. It is not a case of giving permission to do something the rulebook says you can't do, basic versus advanced says advanced takes precedence when there are contradicting rules. In this case, there is a contridiction between how you insist the main rulebook says the modifier must be expressed and what the Nightmare doll rule actually says. In this case Nightmare Doll wins as an advanced rule since it's contradicting how you say it must be expressed.


Most people, though, would read a rule that says you get a +1 to a roll and take it to mean that you modify the dice roll, and wouldn't worry about having to quote basic vs. advanced (or in fact need to worry about it).

If you look at other codexes, you see other examples where they say to modify rolls, such as Eldar Autarchs and other units allowing Reserves rolls to be modified by one. In these cases they don't specify d6 +1 or d6 - 1, they just tell you to modify the roll. Yet in these cases you are told to modify the roll, not modify the target number.