Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2017/01/05 23:24:04
Subject: Re:Four in custody after kidnapping, and torturing a special needs man.
It's terrible, and from what I read, the victim is seriously affected. Those men are a danger to society and should be locked away for a very long time imo.
Damikeis wrote: We learned from the SJWs not to protest on interstates.
You just wrote SJW. I rest my case.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2017/01/06 00:02:57
Subject: Four in custody after kidnapping, and torturing a special needs man.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: It's terrible, and from what I read, the victim is seriously affected. Those men are a danger to society and should be locked away for a very long time imo.
Two men.* And two women.
2017/01/06 00:25:10
Subject: Four in custody after kidnapping, and torturing a special needs man.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: It's terrible, and from what I read, the victim is seriously affected. Those men are a danger to society and should be locked away for a very long time imo.
Damikeis wrote: We learned from the SJWs not to protest on interstates.
You just wrote SJW. I rest my case.
I'm just entertained about the same people who always complain about hate-crime laws not complaining about their use here (in the internet in general, not Dakka [yet]).
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
2017/01/06 00:28:58
Subject: Four in custody after kidnapping, and torturing a special needs man.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: It's terrible, and from what I read, the victim is seriously affected. Those men are a danger to society and should be locked away for a very long time imo.
Damikeis wrote: We learned from the SJWs not to protest on interstates.
You just wrote SJW. I rest my case.
I'm just entertained about the same people who always complain about hate-crime laws not complaining about their use here (in the internet in general, not Dakka [yet]).
What is wrong with their use here?
2017/01/06 00:29:47
Subject: Four in custody after kidnapping, and torturing a special needs man.
Co'tor Shas wrote: I'm just entertained about the same people who always complain about hate-crime laws not complaining about their use here (in the internet in general, not Dakka [yet]).
That's because a hurtful tweet or criticising a political-religious movement is not a hate crime by any sane standard; torturing a young man for hours because of his race and assumed political party while saying "Feth white people" and "Feth Trump" and making sure everyone knew it is.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/06 00:30:59
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis
2017/01/06 00:33:10
Subject: Four in custody after kidnapping, and torturing a special needs man.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: It's terrible, and from what I read, the victim is seriously affected. Those men are a danger to society and should be locked away for a very long time imo.
Damikeis wrote: We learned from the SJWs not to protest on interstates.
You just wrote SJW. I rest my case.
I'm just entertained about the same people who always complain about hate-crime laws not complaining about their use here (in the internet in general, not Dakka [yet]).
Hrmph... well then, I feel like I need to respond.
A) I haven't advocated for those 4 to be charged with hate crimes.
B) I despise hate crimes laws, as it attempts to assess intent/motivations when determining additional punishment.
C) We already have laws making it illegal to kidnap, assault, steal, etc...
D) However, APPLY THE LAW OF THE LAND EQUALLY... if this act didn't constitute as a 'hate crime' as defined by Illinois' statute, then nothing is ever a hate crime.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/01/06 00:42:36
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2017/01/06 00:53:35
Subject: Four in custody after kidnapping, and torturing a special needs man.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: It's terrible, and from what I read, the victim is seriously affected. Those men are a danger to society and should be locked away for a very long time imo.
Damikeis wrote: We learned from the SJWs not to protest on interstates.
You just wrote SJW. I rest my case.
I'm just entertained about the same people who always complain about hate-crime laws not complaining about their use here (in the internet in general, not Dakka [yet]).
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: It's terrible, and from what I read, the victim is seriously affected. Those men are a danger to society and should be locked away for a very long time imo.
Damikeis wrote: We learned from the SJWs not to protest on interstates.
You just wrote SJW. I rest my case.
I'm just entertained about the same people who always complain about hate-crime laws not complaining about their use here (in the internet in general, not Dakka [yet]).
Hrmph... well then, I feel like I need to respond.
A) I haven't advocated for those 4 to be charged with hate crimes.
B) I despise hate crimes laws, as it attempts to assess intent/motivations when determining additional punishment.
C) We already have laws making it illegal to kidnap, assault, steal, etc...
D) However, APPLY THE LAW OF THE LAND EQUALLY... if this act didn't constitute as a 'hate crime' as defined by Illinois' statute, then nothing is ever a hate crime.
Wasn't actually directed at you (I was actually now aware of your view on them), this is more being entertained by the hypocrisy on reddit and elsewhere by the "I'm not racist, but-" people.
Although, I have a question to ask, now that I know. Are you OK with 1st degree murder, 2nd degree murder, and manslaughter having different sentencing?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/06 00:57:48
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
2017/01/06 03:20:30
Subject: Four in custody after kidnapping, and torturing a special needs man.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: It's terrible, and from what I read, the victim is seriously affected. Those men are a danger to society and should be locked away for a very long time imo.
Damikeis wrote: We learned from the SJWs not to protest on interstates.
You just wrote SJW. I rest my case.
I'm just entertained about the same people who always complain about hate-crime laws not complaining about their use here (in the internet in general, not Dakka [yet]).
Hrmph... well then, I feel like I need to respond.
A) I haven't advocated for those 4 to be charged with hate crimes.
B) I despise hate crimes laws, as it attempts to assess intent/motivations when determining additional punishment.
C) We already have laws making it illegal to kidnap, assault, steal, etc...
D) However, APPLY THE LAW OF THE LAND EQUALLY... if this act didn't constitute as a 'hate crime' as defined by Illinois' statute, then nothing is ever a hate crime.
Wasn't actually directed at you (I was actually now aware of your view on them), this is more being entertained by the hypocrisy on reddit and elsewhere by the "I'm not racist, but-" people.
Ah... I see. Apologies then.
Although, I have a question to ask, now that I know. Are you OK with 1st degree murder, 2nd degree murder, and manslaughter having different sentencing?
Sure.
Keep in mind that there are the same sort of "tiers" with respect to other infractions. For instance, in most jurisdictions, there are different sentencing guidelines between 'assault' and 'aggrevated assault'... likewise, 'robbery' and 'armed robbery'.
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2017/01/06 03:31:15
Subject: Four in custody after kidnapping, and torturing a special needs man.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: It's terrible, and from what I read, the victim is seriously affected. Those men are a danger to society and should be locked away for a very long time imo.
Damikeis wrote: We learned from the SJWs not to protest on interstates.
You just wrote SJW. I rest my case.
I'm just entertained about the same people who always complain about hate-crime laws not complaining about their use here (in the internet in general, not Dakka [yet]).
Hrmph... well then, I feel like I need to respond.
A) I haven't advocated for those 4 to be charged with hate crimes.
B) I despise hate crimes laws, as it attempts to assess intent/motivations when determining additional punishment.
C) We already have laws making it illegal to kidnap, assault, steal, etc...
D) However, APPLY THE LAW OF THE LAND EQUALLY... if this act didn't constitute as a 'hate crime' as defined by Illinois' statute, then nothing is ever a hate crime.
Wasn't actually directed at you (I was actually now aware of your view on them), this is more being entertained by the hypocrisy on reddit and elsewhere by the "I'm not racist, but-" people.
Ah... I see. Apologies then.
Although, I have a question to ask, now that I know. Are you OK with 1st degree murder, 2nd degree murder, and manslaughter having different sentencing?
Sure.
Keep in mind that there are the same sort of "tiers" with respect to other infractions. For instance, in most jurisdictions, there are different sentencing guidelines between 'assault' and 'aggrevated assault'... likewise, 'robbery' and 'armed robbery'.
So is this. The law regards the motivation of the crime as an additional aggravating factor. How is the law not applied equations all? Everyone is equally protected by this.
insaniak wrote: Sometimes, Exterminatus is the only option.
And sometimes, it's just a case of too much scotch combined with too many buttons...
2017/01/06 11:26:49
Subject: Four in custody after kidnapping, and torturing a special needs man.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: It's terrible, and from what I read, the victim is seriously affected. Those men are a danger to society and should be locked away for a very long time imo.
Personally, I'm in favour of giving them a nice sunny wall to stand in front of. And a cigarette.
2017/01/06 11:32:55
Subject: Four in custody after kidnapping, and torturing a special needs man.
Jehan-reznor wrote: I am glad the four of them were so stupid to post it on Facebook.
This election really brought out the worst in people :(
No, these people were going to be gak bags regardless of the election and its outcome. Th outcome just gave them something to add to their diatribe as they screwed up some poor guy.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2017/01/06 14:11:56
Subject: Four in custody after kidnapping, and torturing a special needs man.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: It's terrible, and from what I read, the victim is seriously affected. Those men are a danger to society and should be locked away for a very long time imo.
Personally, I'm in favour of giving them a nice sunny wall to stand in front of. And a cigarette.
Perhaps a blindfold to keep the sun out of their eyes?
"Holy Sh*&, you've opened my eyes and changed my mind about this topic, thanks Dakka OT!"
Frazzled wrote: This is some major F'd up behavior and racism.
I have to agree here - this is actual straight racism
I assume they would have turned to crime in the future and would have been locked up eventually. I'm also glad they livestreamed this instead of torturing the poor guy and dumping him in the city.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/06 16:36:34
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: It's terrible, and from what I read, the victim is seriously affected. Those men are a danger to society and should be locked away for a very long time imo.
Damikeis wrote: We learned from the SJWs not to protest on interstates.
You just wrote SJW. I rest my case.
I'm just entertained about the same people who always complain about hate-crime laws not complaining about their use here (in the internet in general, not Dakka [yet]).
Hrmph... well then, I feel like I need to respond.
A) I haven't advocated for those 4 to be charged with hate crimes.
B) I despise hate crimes laws, as it attempts to assess intent/motivations when determining additional punishment.
C) We already have laws making it illegal to kidnap, assault, steal, etc...
D) However, APPLY THE LAW OF THE LAND EQUALLY... if this act didn't constitute as a 'hate crime' as defined by Illinois' statute, then nothing is ever a hate crime.
Wasn't actually directed at you (I was actually now aware of your view on them), this is more being entertained by the hypocrisy on reddit and elsewhere by the "I'm not racist, but-" people.
Ah... I see. Apologies then.
Although, I have a question to ask, now that I know. Are you OK with 1st degree murder, 2nd degree murder, and manslaughter having different sentencing?
Sure.
Keep in mind that there are the same sort of "tiers" with respect to other infractions. For instance, in most jurisdictions, there are different sentencing guidelines between 'assault' and 'aggrevated assault'... likewise, 'robbery' and 'armed robbery'.
So is this. The law regards the motivation of the crime as an additional aggravating factor. How is the law not applied equations all? Everyone is equally protected by this.
If I understand correctly, the degrees of murder and assault focus on whether or not prior intent or planning existed, not the reason why. Hate crime laws focus on the reasoning behind the motivation, not whether or not intent existed. So they are different. A person could certainly be okay with one and not the other.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/06 19:41:55
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: It's terrible, and from what I read, the victim is seriously affected. Those men are a danger to society and should be locked away for a very long time imo.
Damikeis wrote: We learned from the SJWs not to protest on interstates.
You just wrote SJW. I rest my case.
I'm just entertained about the same people who always complain about hate-crime laws not complaining about their use here (in the internet in general, not Dakka [yet]).
Hrmph... well then, I feel like I need to respond.
A) I haven't advocated for those 4 to be charged with hate crimes.
B) I despise hate crimes laws, as it attempts to assess intent/motivations when determining additional punishment.
C) We already have laws making it illegal to kidnap, assault, steal, etc...
D) However, APPLY THE LAW OF THE LAND EQUALLY... if this act didn't constitute as a 'hate crime' as defined by Illinois' statute, then nothing is ever a hate crime.
Wasn't actually directed at you (I was actually now aware of your view on them), this is more being entertained by the hypocrisy on reddit and elsewhere by the "I'm not racist, but-" people.
Ah... I see. Apologies then.
Although, I have a question to ask, now that I know. Are you OK with 1st degree murder, 2nd degree murder, and manslaughter having different sentencing?
Sure.
Keep in mind that there are the same sort of "tiers" with respect to other infractions. For instance, in most jurisdictions, there are different sentencing guidelines between 'assault' and 'aggrevated assault'... likewise, 'robbery' and 'armed robbery'.
So is this. The law regards the motivation of the crime as an additional aggravating factor. How is the law not applied equations all? Everyone is equally protected by this.
If I understand correctly, the degrees of murder and assault focus on whether or not prior intent or planning existed, not the reason why. Hate crime laws focus on the reasoning behind the motivation, not whether or not intent existed. So they are different. A person could certainly be okay with one and not the other.
Exactamundo dude!
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2017/01/06 20:26:12
Subject: Re:Four in custody after kidnapping, and torturing a special needs man.
Has anyone seen the mugshots of these upstanding citizens? My God, they actually look proud. The men have their chins up with their best "thug life" look on their faces.
2017/01/06 22:06:00
Subject: Four in custody after kidnapping, and torturing a special needs man.
People who would feel any shame for what they did probably wouldn't have livestreamed it in the first place.
These are grade-A dumb people about to spend the best years of their lives in prison with no real future to look forward to at this point. Looking hard is probably their smartest career move at this point.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
2017/01/06 22:08:14
Subject: Four in custody after kidnapping, and torturing a special needs man.
Vaktathi wrote: People who would feel any shame for what they did probably wouldn't have livestreamed it in the first place.
I got the impression that the Livestreaming was accidental. One of the girls was recording it and then noticed she was live, but continued anyway.
These are grade-A dumb people about to spend the best years of their lives in prison with no real future to look forward to at this point. Looking hard is probably their smartest career move at this point.
Agreed. If I was facing decades of life in prison I'd do my best to look hard as possible, too.
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
2017/01/06 22:20:07
Subject: Four in custody after kidnapping, and torturing a special needs man.
Keep in mind that there are the same sort of "tiers" with respect to other infractions. For instance, in most jurisdictions, there are different sentencing guidelines between 'assault' and 'aggrevated assault'... likewise, 'robbery' and 'armed robbery'.
But the difference there is not the same as the difference between 1st and 2nd degree murder and manslaughter. Robbery and Armed Robbery are differentiated by solid physical evidence, whether the suspect had a weapon, same with assault and aggravated assault. The distinction between murder 1, murder 2 and manslaughter does not entirely depend on what killed the victim (you can commit all of them with a gun, for example) but the intention and reasoning of the victims actions, much in the same way as hate crime legislation.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Its essentially a thought crime, criminalizing thoughts and motives. Which is inherently absurd and distinctly Orwellian.
The same applies to the distinction between 1st and 2nd degree murder which is entirely about premeditating. So thinking about killing your wife and then doing it how you thought carries a harsher sentence than just killing your wife without having previously thought about how you'd do it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/06 22:22:24
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
2017/01/06 22:32:25
Subject: Re:Four in custody after kidnapping, and torturing a special needs man.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Its essentially a thought crime, criminalizing thoughts and motives. Which is inherently absurd and distinctly Orwellian.
It isn't a thought crime because you can't be punished only for having the thoughts. If you hate someone but don't commit any other offense you won't be punished under hate crime laws. What hate crime laws are meant to do is account for the intimidation factor, the implied "and you're next" directed at everyone like the victim. It's the same reason why "normal" murder and terrorism are treated as separate crimes, instead of something like 9/11 being nothing more than a lot of first degree murder charges.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2017/01/06 22:54:19
Subject: Four in custody after kidnapping, and torturing a special needs man.
Keep in mind that there are the same sort of "tiers" with respect to other infractions. For instance, in most jurisdictions, there are different sentencing guidelines between 'assault' and 'aggrevated assault'... likewise, 'robbery' and 'armed robbery'.
But the difference there is not the same as the difference between 1st and 2nd degree murder and manslaughter. Robbery and Armed Robbery are differentiated by solid physical evidence, whether the suspect had a weapon, same with assault and aggravated assault. The distinction between murder 1, murder 2 and manslaughter does not entirely depend on what killed the victim (you can commit all of them with a gun, for example) but the intention and reasoning of the victims actions, much in the same way as hate crime legislation.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Its essentially a thought crime, criminalizing thoughts and motives. Which is inherently absurd and distinctly Orwellian.
The same applies to the distinction between 1st and 2nd degree murder which is entirely about premeditating. So thinking about killing your wife and then doing it how you thought carries a harsher sentence than just killing your wife without having previously thought about how you'd do it.
That's because premeditated murder usually carries a large degree of malicious forethought on the killers part. Crimes of passion (which is what a lot of second-degree murder cases involve) are usually done in "the heat of the moment".
That's a big reason why first degree murder carries heavier penalties and (depending on the jurisdiction) fall under the classification of "capital murder" (i.e. has the possibility of carrying a death sentence).
Proud Purveyor Of The Unconventional In 40k
2017/01/06 23:02:58
Subject: Four in custody after kidnapping, and torturing a special needs man.
That's because premeditated murder usually carries a large degree of malicious forethought on the killers part. Crimes of passion (which is what a lot of second-degree murder cases involve) are usually done in "the heat of the moment".
That's a big reason why first degree murder carries heavier penalties and (depending on the jurisdiction) fall under the classification of "capital murder" (i.e. has the possibility of carrying a death sentence).
And attacking someone for the colour of their skin or their sexual orientation also carries a large degree of malice aforethought. Most people do not suddenly decide "that person is black so I'll beat them up/kill them", they will have entertained the idea and malice towards black people for some time before actually committing the act. So the main difference is that hate crime malice is potentially directed at a much larger group of people and than the malice of first degree murder, which makes it potentially more dangerous as it cares less who its target is.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/01/06 23:10:38
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
2017/01/06 23:03:39
Subject: Four in custody after kidnapping, and torturing a special needs man.
oldravenman3025 wrote: That's because premeditated murder usually carries a large degree of malicious forethought on the killers part. Crimes of passion (which is what a lot of second-degree murder cases involve) are usually done in "the heat of the moment".
Yes, that's kind of the point here. The difference depends not on the physical evidence or facts of the crime, but on the killer's personal thoughts before committing it. If hate crime laws are "thought crime" then so is the difference between first and second degree murder.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2017/01/06 23:10:02
Subject: Four in custody after kidnapping, and torturing a special needs man.
They can see how they like a few decades staring at a barred window and a concrete floor.
No pansey scentence. 40 years seems fair.. 30 maybe...
But somthibf serious to send a message.
Also.. Its obvious but. Separate jails. For each. No friends to back em up.
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
2017/01/06 23:18:25
Subject: Four in custody after kidnapping, and torturing a special needs man.
